NSW Clubs forced out of QLD Cup

[rabbs]

Since when is Canberra part of NSW,I thought it was a territory of its own

 

[greeneyed]

** sigh **

Yes, the Sydney NRL clubs outsource their NSW Cup tams to another club in their local area - and that's just the point... it's in their local area.

Go back through all the posts I have written - did I once say I was against feeder arrangements with clubs in an NRL team's LOCAL AREA?

And where did I say the Raiders should have a feeder arrangement with a Sydney team? I would be dead against that too.

Stop making up obstacles to suit your agenda.

Your lack of comprehension is astounding. There are not significant leagues clubs to link to in the Canberra region, other than the Raiders. The local clubs in the Canberra Raiders Cup (which is also run by the Raiders) don't have the resources to put a team in the NSW Cup. The ones that are there are set up to compete in Canberra Raiders Cup, one of the strongest local comps around, but that's all they can handle financially. This point has been made over and over. The only option for a NSW Cup team in Canberrra is for the Raiders to run the whole thing.

And I don't care that you've never said the Raiders should have a feeder arrangement with a Sydney team. This isn't about you, or what you say. It is one of the choices, as I've fully explained, proferred by the NSWRL, up in Sydney. THEY have said this is one of the things they'd like to see. So, it is perfectly reasonable to raise the point!

 

[greeneyed]

Sydney this, Sydney that. Whatever... u have a massive chip on your shoulder. I almost feel sorry for you.

I fully support having an NRL club outsource a team for the NSW Cup using a team IN THEIR LOCAL AREA. Whether that team is the NRL club putting a team in the NSW Cup itself or outsourcing it to a LOCAL team makes no difference to me and is not what this arguement is about.

Where I have ever said the Raiders should have a Sydney-based feeder team? I am dead against that too because it defeats the purpose. I will repeat this for the 478th time for the dumb ones like you - the Raiders should be fielding a LOCAL TEAM in the NSW Cup (i.e. NOT A SYDNEY TEAM). Whether that team is outsourced to a local Canberra club or if the Raiders field a team themselves IS IRRELEVANT TO THIS DISCUSSION. The point of this discussion is that the Raiders should not be outsourcing their feeder team all the way up in Queensland to the detriment of the game in their local area.

The Sydney-based NRL teams who have feeder arrangements with their NSW Cup teams ARE TEAMS THAT ARE IN THE SYDNEY TEAM'S LOCAL AREA (except for Manly and they should be told to field a team in the NSW Cup as well).

Listen you dope, it is NOT irrelevant. You really are a complete dill if you can't comprehend the point. The NSWRL is essentially demanding that the Raiders do something that many Sydney clubs DO NOT DO (bear costs of running a full NSW Cup team) or would otherwise advantageous to Sydney clubs. They killed Premier League so they didn't have to run full clubs in NSW Cup. The Raiders should expect to operate on a level playing field with their competitors - what the NSWRL is expecting is basically inequitable.

 

[greeneyed]

The way I see it, the Canberra Raiders are a club whose duty is to provide a chance at NRL representation for the players of the A.C.T and surrounding areas. Having their feeder team in Souths-Logan makes no sense, as that is (technically) located in the Broncos and Titans areas.

There is no A.C.T Rugby League competition, as the area is too small geographically and demographically to have a comp like the NSWRL/ QRL. The A.C.T is surrounded by NSW, and indeed many of the clubs that the Raiders are meant to represent on the national stage are located in NSW, so either the Raiders or a local team representing them should be playing in the NSWRL.

IMO using the "But we've had a link with Souths for 20 odd years" argument doesn't wash in the modern game, as this connection was penned in the days before the Broncos or the Gold Coast were competing in a national comp.

Actually, there is an ACT Rugby League competition, it is Canberra Raiders Cup and run by the Raiders, and it is a good standard comp.

The Raiders are very active in junior development, provide pathways to the NRL for the Canberra region - in fact the whole of southern NSW - and having Souths Logan as a feeder club does nothing at all to stop that (the Raiders run Harold Matthews, SG Ball, Toyota Cup and NRL sides, so LOTS of opportunity there), indeed, it also allows for a pathway for players in the Souths Logan area to come into the NRL via the Raiders.

 

[qldseaeagle96]

Wow, stunning how bluebag 08 just refuses to listen. You Raider boys make excellent points. It is exactly the same as Manly - there is no-one else locally that could afford to run a NSW cup side.

The NSW is ordinary anyway, Souths use Norths? Chooks use Newtown, Sharks used to use Newtown... who in Sydney actually cares about NSW cup anyway?

There actually is a benefit IMO to Manly fringe players playing in Q Cup for Sunny Coast. The region of the Sunshine coast (320k+ pop.) gets to see football of a reasonable quality. This did not happen prior to MWSE investment, the local team prior the Falcons played in the FOGS cup - the tier below. Woeful for an area of this size.

The sooner the independant commission is in the better, that way clubs can make the best decisions on how to move forward without old world cronyism - that goes for both NSWRL & QRL, your time is done.

 

[Scarves]

A couple of issues here.

Firstly, some NSW NRL clubs have been sending fringe players to Qld Cup clubs, thus forming partnerships between two far flung places. Seriously for this to have happened, the people running the NSW Cup must have been doing a fair dinkum rubbish job. It's not like Logan City is up the road from Canberra or that the Sunshine Coast is the next beach up from Manly.

I dare say that if NSW CUP officials did their job properly this would never have happened. The Qld Cup appears to promote stability in its clubs... the NSWRL 2nd tier Cup appears to change it's status yearly and changes it's clubs like a shuffled deck of cards.

Secondly, I understand Manly can still set up a partnership with Mounties (if this is indeed required) regardless of Parramatta RL Clubs opinion/s or attempts to block the development. This is due to Mounties running their partnership with Manly Sea Eagles through Harbord Diggers Club. It's already game on with the partnership blossoming into a mutual love-in. Manly had their season launch at the Diggers this year in a low key event that featured many on the Mounties board afforded invitations to the "dig" at the "diggers". Mounties have had the sh!ts with Parra since the demise of the sleeve sponsorship deal. There are also disagreements associated with the degradation of the local (once mighty)A Grade competition, and the deals associated with the current Parramatta - 2nd tier partnership.

I can see why Mounties are considering a marraige with the Sea Eagles.

 

[canberra_raiders2k2]

The ARL needs a proper system in place, maybe support NSW Cup teams financially or something if they cannot how can they make demands for clubs to do something that they cannot afford themselves...otherwise its always going to be the way it is now...CRAP! Teams merging with random clubs... Manly and Mounties! far out hahah...

 

[siv]

The way for Canberra and Manly to address the issue is not to put a team like Queanbeyan Blues or Belrose in the NSW Cup - but re-enter the NSW Cup as Canberra and Manly. Just as Sharks and the Bulldogs have done

Souths will ahve to address the issue in the coming years also if the CC Bears are re-admitted

Rather than re-badge a club - a RG team should just exist

why have St Merge create a RG team called Shellharbour - just play as St Merge

same goes for Penrith-Windsor / Parramatta-Wenty / Wests-Tigers-Balmain-Ryde etc

Shows dismal a failure the plan was to drop all of the RG teams and try and make the NSW Cup a NSW based RL second divison, whcih was the original intention of the JB/Bundy Cup

Time to acknowledge this failure and bring back all of the NRL clubs in NSW / Vic / ACT at a RG level, and re-establish the RG if only at NSW-Vic-ACT level for the inital period

That would be 12 teams plus you could add Norths, Newtown and then you could have Wests / Balmain split as well as St George / Illawarra split - making it a 16 team comp. With Warriors coming in only if St Merge want to operate as a single team

 

[Glenn]

All comes down to funding or lack there of, if a Football club is losing money on a Reserve Grade side then they are going to be looking at ways to cut the loss.

 

[Jason_(Is_our_King)_Smith]

Actually, there is an ACT Rugby League competition, it is Canberra Raiders Cup and run by the Raiders, and it is a good standard comp.

The Raiders are very active in junior development, provide pathways to the NRL for the Canberra region - in fact the whole of southern NSW - and having Souths Logan as a feeder club does nothing at all to stop that (the Raiders run Harold Matthews, SG Ball, Toyota Cup and NRL sides, so LOTS of opportunity there), indeed, it also allows for a pathway for players in the Souths Logan area to come into the NRL via the Raiders.

I wish the Raiders would play more of their fringe first graders in the ACT rugby league competition. I know its not as strong as NSW./QLD comps but if Canberra strategically supported local teams with its players the standard would increase quickly. Who knows, it may rival the second tier interstate comps one day, because it can draw on a big area in south eastern NSW, and already has a fairly strong Kiwi presence.

 

[joejoe]

What the NSWRL needs to do to make NSW Cup more attractive to sponsors is get a game of the week on free-to-air tv.


Uploading highlights to YouTube is a good step forward, but the game needs wider coverage.

 

[skeepe]

Your lack of comprehension is astounding. There are not significant leagues clubs to link to in the Canberra region, other than the Raiders. The local clubs in the Canberra Raiders Cup (which is also run by the Raiders) don't have the resources to put a team in the NSW Cup. The ones that are there are set up to compete in Canberra Raiders Cup, one of the strongest local comps around, but that's all they can handle financially. This point has been made over and over. The only option for a NSW Cup team in Canberrra is for the Raiders to run the whole thing.

And I don't care that you've never said the Raiders should have a feeder arrangement with a Sydney team. This isn't about you, or what you say. It is one of the choices, as I've fully explained, proferred by the NSWRL, up in Sydney. THEY have said this is one of the things they'd like to see. So, it is perfectly reasonable to raise the point!

This is an excellent point, and one that needs extra emphasis. If the Raiders were forced to come up with the funds for a full NSW cup team, money would have to be diverted from elsewhere. Where's the most likely place? I'd guess the Canberra Raiders Cup. How would that help the grassroots in Canberra?

This would be much more viable if the NSW cup was played as a curtain raiser to first grade, allowing some of the costs to be shared, but as it stands at the moment there is no viable option in the region for a NSW cup team.

 

[myanonymoususername]

All comes down to funding or lack there of, if a Football club is losing money on a Reserve Grade side then they are going to be looking at ways to cut the loss.

You have to admit its a pretty sad state of affairs when clubs in the most elite league in the world can't afford to spend a few hundred k to run a decent reserves program.

I don't mean specifically the Raiders - I mean all the clubs who originally wanted to ditch reserve grade to cut costs. Pretty miserable state of affairs for the game in my view.

 

[bobbis]

The NRL is the legacy of the old NSWRL, as such it has an excessive concentration of Sydney teams. Now the NSWRL wants to mimic that geographical spread in the lower tiers by forcing the majority of NRL clubs to play in the NSW Cup.

Has it occured to Sydney people that the reason its easier for clubs like Manly and Canberra to run teams in Qld is because the area is under represented for professional clubs, and that conversely the reason they don't want to run more teams in NSW is because the area is already over represented.

Maybe it might be good for RL to have semi professional teams in areas that don't have NRL clubs already?

Logan is a city of 250000 people. lets stick 1 NRL team and 1 semi pro team in Canberra with 350000 and kill Logan's 1 semi pro, another big win for spreading the game. Perhaps its the fact that South Logan represents a similar population to Canberra that makes it economical for Canberra to base their feeder side there rather than in Canberra.

This Sydney centric view is exactly what holds RL back. I realise the NSWRL represents Sydney clubs and as such their aim is to screw anyone else in order to advance this agenda, so hopefully either the ARL or NRL will have some common sense.

 

[Lockyer4President!]

You have to admit its a pretty sad state of affairs when clubs in the most elite league in the world can't afford to spend a few hundred k to run a decent reserves program.

I don't mean specifically the Raiders - I mean all the clubs who originally wanted to ditch reserve grade to cut costs. Pretty miserable state of affairs for the game in my view.

Neither the AFL nor S14 look after reserve grade or underage comps like the NRL teams do. The junior system in our game is definitely a big strength but it also means our clubs are spending more than their rivals in other codes need to.

 

[Perth Red]

You have to admit its a pretty sad state of affairs when clubs in the most elite league in the world can't afford to spend a few hundred k to run a decent reserves program.

I don't mean specifically the Raiders - I mean all the clubs who originally wanted to ditch reserve grade to cut costs. Pretty miserable state of affairs for the game in my view.

When the Reds were investigating a team in the NSW cup I was told they would need a $1million+ budget. I am not sure of that included interstate travel though?
Anybody know what a NSW cup budget is on average?

 

[myanonymoususername]

When the Reds were investigating a team in the NSW cup I was told they would need a $1million+ budget. I am not sure of that included interstate travel though?
Anybody know what a NSW cup budget is on average?

According to this, when Newcastle pulled out of the NSW Cup a few years back it was to save them $300k. That gels with what I've heard elsewhere.

The Reds, because they would have run a standalone team would have had to factor in the full costs of player salaries - whereas the NRL teams were already paying salaries for the best players in their NSW Cup teams so the cost of running a team was really quite small.

 

[BIKER_DRAGON]

The Raiders, Warriors and Storm are not based in NSW or QLD they can play there feeder club where ever they like. They should tell Carr to go molest himself.

 

[Loudstrat]

May be, but they are under the NSWRL with juniors. Besides, many Raiders juniors come from southern NSW, so why the hell do they have to travel the extra 1000km's and develop players for Queensland aka Inglis?

 

[franklin2323]

ok 2 things:

1. Can someone post a link to where NSWRL said Raiders need a NSW CUP Team??? All I have read it says they need to play in A NSW Comp.

2. Why does Canberra not giving NRL players mean SL will fold??

On point 1. No team can afford a NSW Cup team so they form with a team locally to share the cost e.g Penrith dont fund Windsor just supply them excess players and let them train with the NRL squad once a week.

So you guys are telling me no club in ACT, Queenbeyan, Goulburn etc don't have the resources to put a team in the Comp. Excess Raiders would strengthen the team.

OR send them to the Raiders Cup. Knights & Dragons have recently done this til they found a club to combine with.

On point 2. IF the Raiders give funding to them. Send the money to ma local team to help form a NSW Cup team. If it's players read the Article they can't Play NRL that year. Send 18 or 19 yo there after SG Ball ends simple.

As for Raiders not being part of NSW. Maybe right but when Monaghan wanted to play SOO he was NSW. Same with Dugan should he play. Not to mention the funding the CRL and NSWRL give to the region so the Raiders don't need to.