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NZ - The Forgotten Frontier?

Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
Dont preach to me old man. I dont care what you have "done for the game". It doesnt make you any better than any other person on this forum who love their team, are members, and turn up week in and week out to yell and scream and support their team.

bullsh*t... watching games, buying tickets and merchandise majes you a fan... it doesnt make you a supporter.... how much fund raising do you do for your team? and no what i have done doesnt make me better than anybody else.. what it does make me is a supporter... of the two clubs I was a part of and the game as a whole... so keep your bullsh*t to yourself.

So why dont you carefully climb down from your high horse. You may very well love League to some extent but through your bias, you make it quite clear that Union is your code of choice. So dont try and fool anybody here.
And where have i made anu bais clear??? find a single post where i have in anyway put down League... i havent... i defend my other code simply because no one else does... just because you are to ignorant to tell the difference doesnt make it true.... maybe when you grow up you will realise this.
 

ME SO HORNBY!

Juniors
Messages
2,324
bullsh*t... watching games, buying tickets and merchandise majes you a fan... it doesnt make you a supporter....

You are an absolute wanker mate and have proven it with that comment. I'm sure there are hundreds of people who use this forum who will disagree with you also.
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
Te Kaha, your attempt at being an overly conservative parochial New Zealander at the expense of a fair debate is... well, interesting. Play the facts, not the poster, I don't get why a healthy discussion regarding expansion into New Zealand has got you so antagonised. You have yourself raised some very pertenant points regarding the conservative local community issues in Wellington that a team would endure, people are merely trying to comprehend it over here as it's not a common Australian issue in local politics. I remember the Black Caps having similar issues with Eden Park when I lived back home.

On the "why has there been no Wellington press", there is a recent article on stuff.co.nz (last couple of days). I can't seem to log into it at the moment, but the bid campaign is still alive and well, probably not proactively out there in people's faces but it's still championing the cause.
 

Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
You are an absolute wanker mate and have proven it with that comment. I'm sure there are hundreds of people who use this forum who will disagree with you also.

ohhh boo hoo to you... and now you speak for "hundreds of people" bully for you.
 

Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
Te Kaha, your attempt at being an overly conservative parochial New Zealander at the expense of a fair debate is... well, interesting. Play the facts, not the poster, I don't get why a healthy discussion regarding expansion into New Zealand has got you so antagonised. You have yourself raised some very pertenant points regarding the conservative local community issues in Wellington that a team would endure, people are merely trying to comprehend it over here as it's not a common Australian issue in local politics. I remember the Black Caps having similar issues with Eden Park when I lived back home.

On the "why has there been no Wellington press", there is a recent article on stuff.co.nz (last couple of days). I can't seem to log into it at the moment, but the bid campaign is still alive and well, probably not proactively out there in people's faces but it's still championing the cause.

I didnt play ther person just respinded in kind... and its nothing about being a " overly conservative parochial New Zealander " and everything about being factual... if any of them did any sort of reseach they might learn a few things.
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
spit-the-dummy.jpg
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
A lot of what we are talking about is long term hypothicals based on the situation now, so there is a lot of grey...

seems you can't discuss issues in New Zealand without getting worked up and telling everyone exactly how it is in your view... put the pacifier back in your mouth, calm down and get back on topic... Just because you coached the game doesn't make you better than other people here. Me So Hornby is right on that one. Plenty of nufty coaches around.

I don't think issues with Westpac Stadium will be a barrier to an NRL francise in Wellington. Governments get behind sporting teams as it generates money. Think the NSW Gov with the West Sydney AFL or Melbourne with the Storm. The rules will be bent if need be. Thats what governments do best.

In terms of time of the game for TV broadcast, how often do we see New Zealand home games on free to air in Australia? I think it happened only once this year. I think the time of the game relative to NZ broadcast slots is far more important. Also, it gives Fox Sports another timeslot in Australia, even if its at mid-day. Theres always delayed telecast too. A day time kick off in New Zealand can be worked around.

Potentially, the people who will try to shoot it down will be Union and A league types as its another slice of the advertising market share, especially Union types who will see it as a threat on their player pool. Is there the Corporate strength in Wellington to generate sponsors? In a multi national comp such as super rugby or NRL, I'd say yes, even for a small town team, as it give big multi nationals a larger platform. Thats why the NRL wanted a team in Melbourne so badly in 98.

Central Coast will not bring that appeal to the table with their bid. But is there enough room for one more in Wellington? An NRL licence in Wellington I think will as good as kill the Pheonix, with the Asian Soccer mob already trying to push them out.

Would Wellington be receptive to a relocated Sydney side? I am thinking Cronulla here. Orcas - Sharks. The orcas colours were going to be like the Sharks away jersey from memory: Black light blue and white, even though the Wellington colours are yellow and black. Cronulla could wear their current home as an away jersey, especially in Australia, and their current away at home in NZ
 
Last edited:

Revelation 3:20

Juniors
Messages
1,028
Imagine a Second NZ team sponsored by 2degrees eg “2degrees Southern Orca” Versing the “Vodafone Auckland Warriors”
Phone company v Phone company..Grrrrr
 

Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
A lot of what we are talking about is long term hypothicals based on the situation now, so there is a lot of grey...

seems you can't discuss issues in New Zealand without getting worked up and telling everyone exactly how it is in your view... put the pacifier back in your mouth, calm down and get back on topic... Just because you coached the game doesn't make you better than other people here. Me So Hornby is right on that one. Plenty of nufty coaches around.
It had nothing to do with being better than anybody else and his direct attack on me that I had no love for the game... I was pointing out that i have done more for the game then he is ever likely to do, but because he is so narrow minded he cant believe i could love two codes.


I don't think issues with Westpac Stadium will be a barrier to an NRL francise in Wellington. Governments get behind sporting teams as it generates money. Think the NSW Gov with the West Sydney AFL or Melbourne with the Storm. The rules will be bent if need be. Thats what governments do best.
And if they cant? and the licence is issued and it becomes an issue??? that will be it.. no chance of another team there EVER again... a team will eventually have to go into wellington or Christchurch if the game is to expand. However things like that will have to be sorted before hand... and given the Cricket and Rugby codes have first rights as anchor tenents do you think they will be receptive to any changes, given it will result in competition???


In terms of time of the game for TV broadcast, how often do we see New Zealand home games on free to air in Australia? I think it happened only once this year. I think the time of the game relative to NZ broadcast slots is far more important. Also, it gives Fox Sports another timeslot in Australia, even if its at mid-day. Theres always delayed telecast too. A day time kick off in New Zealand can be worked around.
Thats all true... it just adds another hurdle that the bid has to cross... one that other bids wont have... and its the broadcasters that run the game.. it also doesnt answer the problems of hosting finals.

Potentially, the people who will try to shoot it down will be Union and A league types as its another slice of the advertising market share, especially Union types who will see it as a threat on their player pool. Is there the Corporate strength in Wellington to generate sponsors? In a multi national comp such as super rugby or NRL, I'd say yes, even for a small town team, as it give big multi nationals a larger platform. Thats why the NRL wanted a team in Melbourne so badly in 98.
Thats congecture and also not likely to be true... the Orcas bid was strong as it had the Belgium based English millionare funding the team... if he is gone then its back to square one.

Central Coast will not bring that appeal to the table with their bid. But is there enough room for one more in Wellington? An NRL licence in Wellington I think will as good as kill the Pheonix, with the Asian Soccer mob already trying to push them out.
No it wont.... the Soccer fans in Wellington are fanatic... they wont switch to League... If the Asion confederation kixks them out thats anothe matter.

Would Wellington be receptive to a relocated Sydney side? I am thinking Cronulla here. Orcas - Sharks. The orcas colours were going to be like the Sharks away jersey from memory: Black light blue and white, even though the Wellington colours are yellow and black. Cronulla could wear their current home as an away jersey, especially in Australia, and their current away at home in NZ
a transplanted team? maybe... depending on the team... Sharks tho ? not a chance.. Orcas are related to wellington as they often come into the harbor... thats why the name was chosen... sharks? not at all... had the Storm had to shift they would have fit, as like the Hurricanes the storm fit with"windy" wellington.
 

ona2001

Juniors
Messages
29
New Zealand doesn't need a second NRL side. They need their current side to play a lot more games in Wellington and Christchurch and be generally visible (media appearances, meet the fans days) a lot more outside Auckland. The NRL's expansion needs to be about consolidating its base in NSW and Queensland and growing RL as the number one alternative to the AFL outside those states.
 

Lockyer4President!

First Grade
Messages
7,975
Te Kaha, your attempt at being an overly conservative parochial New Zealander at the expense of a fair debate is... well, interesting. Play the facts, not the poster, I don't get why a healthy discussion regarding expansion into New Zealand has got you so antagonised. You have yourself raised some very pertenant points regarding the conservative local community issues in Wellington that a team would endure, people are merely trying to comprehend it over here as it's not a common Australian issue in local politics. I remember the Black Caps having similar issues with Eden Park when I lived back home.

On the "why has there been no Wellington press", there is a recent article on stuff.co.nz (last couple of days). I can't seem to log into it at the moment, but the bid campaign is still alive and well, probably not proactively out there in people's faces but it's still championing the cause.

Found the articles:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/local/hutt-news/2821319/League-boss-wants-Wellington-NRL-side

It seems like a huge challenge but Jason Hemson firmly believes Wellington will get an NRL team.

The Wellington Rugby League boss is working on a private bid but is aiming for the backing of both the Wellington and New Zealand bodies.

The first official bid was made in the early 1990s by Ken Laban and John Morrison, who backed the Dolphins.

That bid failed, but earlier this decade the then city council chief executive, Rik Hart, worked on a Wellington-based bid that would have seen a team based at Hutt Park.

That ultimately was unsuccessful, but Mr Hemson says that for league in New Zealand to succeed long term, a second Kiwi team is needed.

The Hutt Valley has a huge pool of untapped talent, he says, and a Wellington-based team will enable them to stay here.

Many of them are Maori and Polynesian and experience has found that when 17 and 18- year-olds go to Australia, and away from their parents, they often struggle.

His vision, however, is much wider than just a Wellington team. The Hurricanes provide a model that should work for league, he says.

Both Manawatu and Taranaki have significant league communities and his approach is regional.

So far he has had tentative discussions with Wellington City and the Westpac Stadium.

The stadium has told him that with its existing commitments, it cannot host a full season of NRL.

That fits in perfectly with his plan, as he hopes the team would also play a couple of games in the South Island, as well as places like Palmerston North, Napier and New Plymouth.

His aim to is to launch the bid early next year and to get the team into the NRL for the 2013 season.
He concedes that is a big challenge and says there are numerous hurdles to overcome.

The NRL has not given a commitment to expansion and there are also potentially numerous Australian bids.

The New Zealand Rugby League (NZRL) would also have to endorse any locally based team.

The NZRL are currently drawing up a strategic plan for the code and he is pushing to get it included in the plan.

There is also the problem of money. An NRL team requires an annual budget of $14 million. Whilst some of that comes from an annual grant from the NRL and television rights, a team still needs something in the vicinity of $10m.

The regional approach should make it easier to find sponsorship, he says.

Another factor encouraging him is the success of the Titans. The Gold Coast-based team is amongst the front-runners this season in the NRL, after joining the competition in 2007.

When the Titans first put in a bid, it was rejected by the NRL with no reason given. The backers of the bid refused to accept no and demanded to be given a reason. After extensive negotiations, the club was eventually granted a licence and has subsequently flourished.
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Mr Hemson says the lesson to be learned is to not give up and that it may take years to get everything right and gain a spot.

Ultimately he believes the NRL will want a second New Zealand team and to be prepared to work towards achieving that, he says.

At this point, he has not spoken to the Hutt City Council, but plans to do so.

The proposal for a sports hub at Fraser Park will create opportunities for league. It could be a perfect training ground for an NRL team and potentially is the right site for a 12,000 seat stadium, which would provide an alternative to Westpac Stadium.

As the Wellington rugby league boss, he is also aware that for the bid to succeed, the sport has to grow locally.

When the Dolphins put in their bid, there were 170 teams in Wellington. The number is now significantly lower and one of his priorities is to grow the game. This week he will be attending the national secondary school's competition in Wainuiomata and if he gets his way, some of the boys may one day play for a Wellington NRL team.

&

This article from earlier in the year.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/2328401/Hopes-raised-for-NRL-inclusion
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
I didnt play ther person just respinded in kind... and its nothing about being a " overly conservative parochial New Zealander " and everything about being factual... if any of them did any sort of reseach they might learn a few things.

You really expected them to do research into Wellington Council's philosophical intent/actions in relation to Westpac Stadium and night time viewing?
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
New Zealand doesn't need a second NRL side. They need their current side to play a lot more games in Wellington and Christchurch and be generally visible (media appearances, meet the fans days) a lot more outside Auckland. The NRL's expansion needs to be about consolidating its base in NSW and Queensland and growing RL as the number one alternative to the AFL outside those states.

From memory alone (certainly no research), the Warriors are heavily reliant on a deal that keeps them at Mt Smart Stadium.

Cronulla, Roosters, Tigers, Eels, Knights, Sea Eagles, Bulldogs, Dragons, Panthers.. is it just me, or is NSW consolidated like a motherf*ck? As far as competition goes, it's only the Swans in AFL and Waratahs in Union. The A-League is a growing identity and also plays mostly in opposing seasons.

Personally, I feel the Warriors themselves need New Zealand to have a second team. Perhaps all the fiddling around and guess work and speculating on weaker players/managers will change if they don't have instant monopolisation of a massive media network. I think it's the old case of competition breeds strategic success.
 

BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
14,392
The proposal for a sports hub at Fraser Park will create opportunities for league. It could be a perfect training ground for an NRL team and potentially is the right site for a 12,000 seat stadium, which would provide an alternative to Westpac Stadium
.

Te Kaha, can you elaborate on this point?

Is this an existing stadium or will it need to be built?

12,000 is not an NRL sized ground IMO, but if the stadium is to be constructed, then it appears that we shouldn't be holding our breath for any NZ local or other government money...
 

Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
You really expected them to do research into Wellington Council's philosophical intent/actions in relation to Westpac Stadium and night time viewing?
If they want to make an informed post then yes... but if they just want to be typical internet driblers then i spose not...anybody who criticises without all the facts is nothing more than a troll, and should be treated as such.
 

Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
.

Te Kaha, can you elaborate on this point?

Is this an existing stadium or will it need to be built?

12,000 is not an NRL sized ground IMO, but if the stadium is to be constructed, then it appears that we shouldn't be holding our breath for any NZ local or other government money...

Fraser Park is in Avalon Lower Hutt.... it has a dozen or so sports fields and is used for Rugby, League and Soccer... the main two fields are in a bit of a bowl with grass banks on each side... and no, there isnt a stadium... The ground is certainly big enough to hold a 12-15K stadium but its a 20 min drive form Wellington CBD with no traffic... but on a friday night in rush hour.. its an hour or two away... that kills the friday night crowds....

This must be a change as the original Orcas bid was a redevelopment of Hutt park... If its only to be used for training purposes there are plenty of other grounds with 5K+ stands, i cant see why they would want to develop what is essentially a big field with a hall.

And yes, Given Westpac Stadium required regional funding i cant see any more funds will be given to build a new one in Lower Hutt...
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
If they want to make an informed post then yes... but if they just want to be typical internet driblers then i spose not...anybody who criticises without all the facts is nothing more than a troll, and should be treated as such.

I guess by definition I'm a troll. I'd be surprised if anyone over say 1,000 posts has made a misinformed comment on these boards. I would have thought that was the objective to learn new information via debating. My bad.
 

Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
I guess by definition I'm a troll. I'd be surprised if anyone over say 1,000 posts has made a misinformed comment on these boards. I would have thought that was the objective to learn new information via debating. My bad.
I always assumed that if you wanted to know something you asked... you dont make snide comments... I guess i am just old school like that.
 

ona2001

Juniors
Messages
29
Cronulla, Roosters, Tigers, Eels, Knights, Sea Eagles, Bulldogs, Dragons, Panthers.. is it just me, or is NSW consolidated like a motherf*ck?

But not all of them are performing on or off the field to the standard required of a national competition. At least three Sydney teams need to look at alternatives to their current status quo IMO, that is to say before they have no choice.

Personally, I feel the Warriors themselves need New Zealand to have a second team. Perhaps all the fiddling around and guess work and speculating on weaker players/managers will change if they don't have instant monopolisation of a massive media network. I think it's the old case of competition breeds strategic success.

Maybe you're right. If so I think the side needs to be wholly South Island based.
 
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