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Official RLWC2017 Draw

Billythekid

First Grade
Messages
6,570
If the rlwc averages over 22k per game it would be deemed an extremely successful world cup. Considering the NRL struggles to average 16k and the Super league 10k.

Last thing we want is playing games in 86k Anz stadium and only having 20k show up.

Comparing the world cup crowd average to that of the NRL or ESL doesn't make any sense. If that's really how high we're setting the bar we may as well give up.

Do you honestly believe that a semi final, grand final or opening round between Aus and NZ/Eng would only draw 20K? That's nonsense really. I'm not saying a sellout is close to a guarantee but if we advertise it properly I see no reason we couldn't pull 60K+ at least. Then again this is rugby league and we have no faith in our product so we'll be conservative to the point of being detrimental.
 

PaulyTom

Juniors
Messages
1,075
Wake Up and smell the roses. We are not a Football world cup ( soccer) or a Rugby union world cup yet. Give Rugby league time and I'm sure we can hit 30k per game. Years of neglect by the NRL and EPL have meant we are a long way behind other major Sports in the world cup stakes.
Comparing the world cup crowd average to that of the NRL or ESL doesn't make any sense. If that's really how high we're setting the bar we may as well give up.

Do you honestly believe that a semi final, grand final or opening round between Aus and NZ/Eng would only draw 20K? That's nonsense really. I'm not saying a sellout is close to a guarantee but if we advertise it properly I see no reason we couldn't pull 60K+ at least. Then again this is rugby league and we have no faith in our product so we'll be conservative to the point of being detrimental.
 

PARRA_FAN

Coach
Messages
17,121
I actually don't mind the draw, if the same people are in charge of the last world cup, its certainly going to be a good one. A lot of people are disappointed that some cities have been snubbed. Understandably, but given that 2008 was a successful Cup, I'm actually glad that with cup being back in the Southern Hemisphere they've taken some games in different areas. Of course in 2008 you couldn't ignore RL strongholds like Newcastle, Gosford, Wollongong, Gold Coast, Rockhampton and western Sydney. A lot of those games got decent crowds and it worked out well. Now in 2017 they want to promote it further, Darwin and Perth will get the opportunity to see more RL games and hopefully they'll get a good turnout. And of course New Zealand for the first time in years will co-host the cup, along with PNG for the first time ever. This World Cup will only make the International game stronger. If its as good as 2013, then I wonder how many other countries are prepared to make a bid for future World Cups. It does look likely that 2021 will be in England, but it'll be interested to see who will bid for 2025 and beyond.
 

Billythekid

First Grade
Messages
6,570
Wake Up and smell the roses. We are not a Football world cup ( soccer) or a Rugby union world cup yet. Give Rugby league time and I'm sure we can hit 30k per game. Years of neglect by the NRL and EPL have meant we are a long way behind other major Sports in the world cup stakes.

I didn't suggest we are or should be as big as rugby or soccer when it comes to world cups. I would argue though that one of the main reasons that rugby is so far ahead of us today in terms of the international game is because of their ambition. In 2003 it's not like they were leaps and bounds ahead of where rugby league is today and they were FAR less popular in australia than league is today. They still managed to average 38K.

I didn't say we should average 30K or any other number (not that 30K is an overly ambitious number or close to putting us level with rugby or soccer). I'm talking about specific matches and what we can do to improve the crowds for this tournament and frankly I don't think they're really crazy ideas. You don't have to think we're on par with rugby or soccer to think that a SF for the world cup should be played in a stadium with a bigger capacity than 30K.

I'm not suggesting every match be played in massive stadiums. I realise that can lead to the tournament losing money and can be a bad look. I can accept most of the draw but the bigger matches need to be played at bigger venues. It's not even really a risk at all and I would argue that playing games like Aus vs Lebanon and in particular Eng vs lebanese at the SFS is going to result in far more empty seats than anything im suggesting.
 

miguel de cervantes

First Grade
Messages
7,469
2013 Rugby League World Cup

Attendance 458,483 (16,374 per match)

On the crowd thing:

(1) we all know attendance and rugby league don't always rhyme
(2) you have to create the perception of ticket rarity. playing in 50-80k stadiums and giving away freebies doesn't do this. you sell the first few games out, it has a flow on propaganda effect for following games.
(3) what really matters most when beaming the games around the world and putting them on youtube - full stadiums and good atmosphere or some average numbers that can be bandied around with rugby union friends?

Don't lose sight of the big picture. The primary aim of the game is not to get high crowds (the cricket WC can attest to this, as can the union sevens circuit). The aim of the game is to create a rugby league spectacle and prescence on the international stage so people know there exists an alternative to rugby union. This is what drives grass roots rugby league on an international level. Not statistics on wikipedia.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
2013 Rugby League World Cup

Attendance 458,483 (16,374 per match)

On the crowd thing:

(1) we all know attendance and rugby league don't always rhyme
(2) you have to create the perception of ticket rarity. playing in 50-80k stadiums and giving away freebies doesn't do this. you sell the first few games out, it has a flow on propaganda effect for following games.
(3) what really matters most when beaming the games around the world and putting them on youtube - full stadiums and good atmosphere or some average numbers that can be bandied around with rugby union friends?

Don't lose sight of the big picture. The primary aim of the game is not to get high crowds (the cricket WC can attest to this, as can the union sevens circuit). The aim of the game is to create a rugby league spectacle and prescence on the international stage so people know there exists an alternative to rugby union. This is what drives grass roots rugby league on an international level. Not statistics on wikipedia.

That's all valid, but it doesn't take away from the fact we're underselling some games (Aus v England, most of the finals) by 20-30k.
Which costs us money and credibility that can be used to grow the game.
 

miguel de cervantes

First Grade
Messages
7,469
I think the credibility question is minimal. In the eyes of who? Only union and perhaps soccer people would even bother with that - and how tangible is the prize they win? A 20k average for a world cup - how many other sports can claim that? 4 or 5?

Money? That depends on how much the tickets are I suppose. Aus v England at Eithiad in 2008 pulled 36k. You get 30k into AAMI with 20% higher ticket prices (so say $60 instead of $50) and the result is the same (ignoring inflation) but with a better atmosphere and better viewing. The 6k that miss out are likely to go to the other Melbourne game.

If full stadiums didn't matter, union would not have bothered stretching black tarps over empty seats at the 2015 WC (league should do the same!).
 
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adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
I also take issue with using crowds from 2008 as an excuse for small stadiums and ignoring Sydney.

2008 was a rebirth of sorts for International RL - Am I insane to think we've come a fair way since then? Maybe I'm blindly optimistic, but i'd expect Australia v England opener with good promotion to pull 50+
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,925
Whilst I don't think that 38K average is realistic this time around I agree that we have set the bar too low. I think the main issue is limiting the capacity on the bigger games, in particular NZ games.

Unless I'm reading things wrong NZ will only play one game in the entire tournament in a stadium with a capacity over 30K and that's the GF. That is just an awful decision. Even the warriors can draw 30k+ at Eden park. I don't think all their games should be there but having say two of their matches there could have a huge impact on the average crowd for the tournament. The SF should be at Eden park. In general I think a SF should be in a 40K+ stadium no matter what.

I'm also torn on some of the bigger matches. The opener between Australia and England has the potential to sell out any stadium in the country. Now whilst I agree that a packed out Aami park will look good and provide a great atmosphere it still feels like we're selling ourselves short. This game could have been held at a bigger stadium and drawn 50k+ depending on the venue.

Basically my thinking is this. Either one of the GF, SF or opening match should have been held at ANZ stadium and I don't care if Sydney bid for games or not. A game there with 60K+ people (personally I think we could sell it out) would be a fantastic look for the game and would boost the average crowd immensely.

Aus vs Eng, both SF's and the GF should all be played in stadiums with a 50k capacity (really Aus and NZ's QF matches potentially should as well).

ANZ stadium should get a match regardless of bidding IMO. I'm also sure that with a bid of negotiation they would have offered up something even if it wasn't as good as other cities. Nothing can replace having a potential 60-80K for a tournament like this.

Say you sellout ANZ, Suncorp, etihad and Eden park for these big matches. That's somewhere in the order of 240K people. Have Australia's QF at Aami park (or Suncorp) and NZ's at mt smart (or Eden park) and you have 300K+ already. I realise this is optimistic but that is what we should be.

I disagree slightly with some of the smaller stadium choices but it's the lack of big ones that will hold us back. There are only 4 games being played at a stadium with more than 30K capacity (depending on what Aami can actually hold) and likely we'll only see 2 crowds with more than 30K. I don't see how anyone can justify that position.

A sold out Suncorp looks far better than 60k ANZ imo. Do agree that Eden park should have been used and sfs for the opener but again blame nsw govt for not going hard for the top games.

End of day Sydney has a poor track record for international,games, NRL/rlif has gone for guaranteed money in the pocket from city bids rather than relying on an untrustworthy rugby league fanbase to attend games to make money.
 

johnny plath

Juniors
Messages
385
Article below from Sydney media highlights a couple of things. First that NSW missed out on games because it has a tight arse Government that can't see the value in hosting an international sporting event. Second, the sense of entitlement and centric view that suggests NSW should just be given games because they deserve it. Rugby league has been league supports of NSW have been let down by the Government, maybe they should let them know.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...e-rugby-league-world-cup-20160720-gqa3wl.html


How Sydney gave away the Rugby League World Cup

Andrew Webster


It is one of the great voicemail messages we will probably never hear but many in rugby league — great soap opera of our time that it is — were talking about all day.

Channelling the spirit animal of Phil Gould who appointed him, Penrith chief executive Corey Payne released a media statement on Tuesday night blasting Rugby League World Cup boss Michael Brown for brushing western Sydney for marquee matches.

Actually, any matches.

In case you hadn't noticed all of Sydney was brushed for the World Cup in 2017 save for two pool matches between Australia and Lebanon and England and Lebanon. Bring on the Kibbeh nayyeh, the greatest invention this side of Anzac Parade.

According to those who heard it, a voicemail message Brown left for Payne crossed a line.

"I told him I was very, very disappointed that he would do that at a time when we are passionate about growing the game in western Sydney," Brown said on Wednesday in response to Payne's media release. "For him to do that was just disappointing." Theatrics aside, that Sydney and all of NSW has been thrown two bones of two matches raises serious questions about the game's commitment to rugby league in NSW, the birthplace of the game.

Western Sydney is the corner of the country where the game is growing exponentially. Why the game isn't fishing where the fishes are swimming — a phrase coined by former CEO David Gallop — is astounding. But the fact Newcastle or Wollongong has been afforded no match is an indictment on the game.

Newcastle and the Hunter Valley was once the heartbeat of rugby league. The strength of the region during Super League kept it going. Not my words but that of former ARL boss Ken Arthurson.

The Tinkler Embarrassment almost killed footy in Newy, though. Time to show it some love.

"The game is going to the heartland where new customers want to be," Brown said. Really? Does that comment make any sense?

It comes from a person who has lots of skin in business and cricket and the Asian Cup but nothing in rugby league.

It feeds a fear in the game that those who have no knowledge about footy are more worried about short-term financial gain at the long-term expense of a code withering on the vine. Someone this week talked to me about the "FOIs". The Financial Return on Investment.

Someone this week talked to me about the "FOIs". The Financial Return on Investment. I almost vomited.

I almost vomited.

In signature rugby league fashion, everyone is to blame but nobody accepts responsibility.

The NRL passes the buck to the Rugby League World Cup committee, headed by Brown. Who passes it on to Destinations NSW, the state government's arm for major events funding who didn't want to pay any money.

Who passes it on to ...

Confused? Don't be.

Western Sydney, Newcastle, Wollongong and all those supposed "heartlands" of rugby league that received precious little interest ... they get nothing.

Destinations NSW boss Sandra Chipchase emailed a quote to me on Wednesday night. "The NSW Government has worked with the NRL to secure a packed calendar of major Rugby League events for the State. This includes long-term agreements to host the two centrepieces of the game, the NRL Grand Final and State of Origin, as well as this year's Test Match between Australia and New Zealand in Newcastle, the Pacific Islands Double Header held this year at Parramatta Stadium and to be held again in 2017, the City vs Country match in Tamworth and a regional NRL match between the Panthers and Raiders in Bathurst.

"On top of this, the NSW Government is investing $1.6 billion in Sydney stadia infrastructure, representing the biggest investment in sport in NSW since the Sydney 2000 Olympics and securing the future of Rugby League in the State."

Awesome. In reality, this is how it rolled ... according to Michael Brown.

In the first talks with the NSW Government, they bandied around figures of $4 million for a group of matches. Then $2 million for a group of matches.

Then, six weeks ago, they offered dollars. The SCG Trust stepped in and offered hirer's fees at cost to ensure the Lebanon games went ahead. Otherwise? NSW had no games.

Then Brown approached NSW Sports Minister Stuart Ayres and then Premier Mike Baird through NRL chief executive Todd Greenberg.

"I spoke to Ayres and Todd spoke on my behalf to the Premier," Brown said. "Their view was we overestimated our budgets. We can't find the money that you're after. It's really sad because we think it's a great event."

As it was explained to me, the NSW Government was not prepared to make an investment on this World Cup based on the failure of the last one in 2008, in which — on average — 52 percent of stadia was not filled.

What's more important?

The crowds? The money? Or the game?
 

Valheru

Coach
Messages
17,649
I also take issue with using crowds from 2008 as an excuse for small stadiums and ignoring Sydney.

2008 was a rebirth of sorts for International RL - Am I insane to think we've come a fair way since then? Maybe I'm blindly optimistic, but i'd expect Australia v England opener with good promotion to pull 50+

The fact that they are using the semi against Fiji as an indicator is ridiculous as well. I was at that game and it was a 56-0 flogging and one of the most boring sporting events I have ever been to.
 

Jim from Oz

Juniors
Messages
724
NOTE THIS PAR:



As it was explained to me, the NSW Government was not prepared to make an investment on this World Cup based on the failure of the last one in 2008, in which — on average — 52 percent of stadia was not filled.



so the NSW Govt's excuse is to blame what happened at an event NINE years previously!!!!
 

jim_57

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
4,362
So any idea when we'll see tickets on sale? Would be good if it was within the next few weeks, at least for the Finals and opener to get the ball rolling.
 

morningstar

Juniors
Messages
826
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...e-rugby-league-world-cup-20160720-gqa3wl.html

Theatrics aside, that Sydney and all of NSW has been thrown two bones of two matches raises serious questions about the game's commitment to rugby league in NSW, the birthplace of the game.

It feeds a fear in the game that those who have no knowledge about footy are more worried about short-term financial gain at the long-term expense of a code withering on the vine.

:rolleyes: Andrew Webster is such a merkin.
 

Pommy

Coach
Messages
14,657
Wake Up and smell the roses. We are not a Football world cup ( soccer) or a Rugby union world cup yet. Give Rugby league time and I'm sure we can hit 30k per game. Years of neglect by the NRL and EPL have meant we are a long way behind other major Sports in the world cup stakes.

The Socceroos got a crowd of over 30,000 for a kick about with Greece last month. If they can't be ambitious enough to beat that target in Sydney for an opening against England then they might as well give up.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
If you're wondering why we never sell anything out except finals

Fans will be able to watch the best Rugby League players in Australia and New Zealand for as little as $55 when Perth hosts its first Test match on October 15.

If that was in Sydney I wouldn't go. Not paying $55 for anything less than a final.

Hopefully not a sign of things to come for the WC, but I expect it will be
 
Messages
1,354
No sympathy to Sydney, if they had crowds of an actual heartland with there NRL games then they deserve more international games. Considering the apathy they have shown to international games in the past, I'm not suprised. Also, Sydney has enough promotion for rugby league as it has majority of the teams in the NRL what else do they want.

Even with these teams they don't show up despite proclaiming 'heartland' this and that the entitlement speaks for itself and the numbers don't back up the heartland claims. Glad the Cairns/Townsville get games because they would actually attend it.
 

Last Week

Bench
Messages
3,646
No sympathy to Sydney, if they had crowds of an actual heartland with there NRL games then they deserve more international games. Considering the apathy they have shown to international games in the past, I'm not suprised. Also, Sydney has enough promotion for rugby league as it has majority of the teams in the NRL what else do they want.

Even with these teams they don't show up despite proclaiming 'heartland' this and that the entitlement speaks for itself and the numbers don't back up the heartland claims. Glad the Cairns/Townsville get games because they would actually attend it.

f**k me. Almost need a bucket for all this dribble.
 
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