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Official RLWC2017 Draw

johnny plath

Juniors
Messages
385
The Socceroos got a crowd of over 30,000 for a kick about with Greece last month. If they can't be ambitious enough to beat that target in Sydney for an opening against England then they might as well give up.
I think a big part of the reason soccer internationals get decent crowds relates to it providing a much higher standard compared to what is normally available to aussie soccer fans. ..this is not really the case with rugby league and particularly Sydney where there is generally top standard league available every week. Outside of Sydney the internationals will get good support because fans are hanging for high level footy.
 

undertaker

Coach
Messages
10,817
The fact that they are using the semi against Fiji as an indicator is ridiculous as well. I was at that game and it was a 56-0 flogging and one of the most boring sporting events I have ever been to.

Regarding that semi-final, it's a miracle that 16k turned out to Allianz for that match, given there was very little promotion for it (most of the attention was on the England/NZ semi the night before), it was late on a Sunday night and didn't finish until close to 10pm, let alone Fiji was always going to be on a hiding to nothing given it was 22-0 after 16 minutes and Australia was barely even trying. It was simply a no-contest, boys playing against men, and given the circumstances, kudos to those who forked out money for that game (as it wasn't cheap).

I also take issue with using crowds from 2008 as an excuse for small stadiums and ignoring Sydney.

2008 was a rebirth of sorts for International RL - Am I insane to think we've come a fair way since then? Maybe I'm blindly optimistic, but i'd expect Australia v England opener with good promotion to pull 50+

As it was explained to me, the NSW Government was not prepared to make an investment on this World Cup based on the failure of the last one in 2008, in which — on average — 52 percent of stadia was not filled.

so the NSW Govt's excuse is to blame what happened at an event NINE years previously!!!!



This.

The reputation of International RL in Australia has come a long way since then. To try and justify decisions based on what happened nearly a decade ago is completely, utterly braindead to the max. People have a short-term memory of where test football was at during that time. To try and say Sydney deserves to be punished for poor international attendances, then allocate them a match against a minnow (Lebanon), inflate the ticket prices for next year's tournament and just suddenly expect it to sell-out?

It was only a year earlier towards the end of 2007 that Australia smashed NZ 58-0 in NZ. Off the back of that until the 2008 RLWC, the media kept bagging out the tournament, saying it was a complete waste of time, just give Australia the trophy etc. etc. Colin Love as ARL CEO made an absolute mockery of the tournament, following in the footsteps of David Gallop by giving Ch9/2GB the exclusive broadcasting rights on a silver platter. All he cared about was the big fat 6-digit paycheck he was going to get for doing absolute jack all as the tournament organiser. Undoubtedly the easiest paycheck he ever received. Ch9 with their delayed telecasts saturated with ads (when everywhere else in the world could watch it live), Ray Hadley on 2GB saying that the World Cup was a farce in the lead-up to the Australia vs NZ match. How was the tournament ever going to achieve its full potential when the broadcasters were trying to sabotage it? Only in RL do we allow this to happen again and again, and no-one says anything about it...do the same thing in AFL or other sports here, and you would be sacked.

On the field, there was a massive gap in the squad talent between Australia and the next of the big 3, NZ and England. Australia had big wins against NZ and England in the pool stages of the 2008 RLWC (30-6, 52-4) and were on schedule for another big win in the final until Lockyer lost the ball over the line at 10-0 (shades of Mundine in the '99 NRL GF), NZ afterwards bounced back with 2 quick converted tries to lead 12-10, momentum of the game changed and NZ went on to win. It was probably the best thing for the tournament at that time, as I can only imagine what would've happened in the media if Australia racked up another large score, like they had throughout the tournament.

Since then, NZ also won the 2010/2014 four-nations, the 4th team Samoa have also bridged the gap (nearly defeating NZ, scoring same number of tries as England but goalkicking was the difference), Australia vs Samoa in Wollongong selling out, which the same fixture wouldn't have got anymore than 10k back in 2008. As I mentioned in another international RL thread, Union has 5 teams (Australia/NZ/England/South Africa/France) that have made a Rugby World Cup final, and are the genuine potentials to win the cup (i.e. Tier 1 nations. Ireland/Argentina/Wales/Scotland are Tier 2, teams that will give Tier 1 teams a run for their money occasionally and will pull off upsets, but are still behind the Tier 1 teams in terms of overall development). Now, I understand that the RLIF/RFL don't have the millions of dollars to throw around in development that the RFU has. However, the goal for the RLIF/RFL should bea s follows: If rugby league can bridge the gap between the Tier 1 (Australia/NZ/England) and Tier 2 nations, and even get just one more team (whether it be Samoa/Tonga/PNG/France/Wales) to a similar level of competitiveness as the big 3 (Australia/NZ/England) and potentially make the final, there are some very exciting times ahead for international RL. Unfortunately, it's still at least another World Cup off before we potentially see a team outside of Australia/NZ/England make the final, and next year's final will still be either Australia vs NZ/Australia vs England/England vs NZ.
 
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Pommy

Coach
Messages
14,657
I think a big part of the reason soccer internationals get decent crowds relates to it providing a much higher standard compared to what is normally available to aussie soccer fans. ..this is not really the case with rugby league and particularly Sydney where there is generally top standard league available every week. Outside of Sydney the internationals will get good support because fans are hanging for high level footy.

I went to the game it was awful even by Aussie standards. If Greece were a good side they would have been in the euros not touring Australia.
I mean come on SFS isn't huge and they should have aimed to fill that for an opening game of the tournament England vs Australia. It's just a blatant lack of ambition.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
Pommy what don't you understand about the business model being used for rlwc's now. Melbourne would have bid big $'s for the decent fixtures they have got, you would need to sell the extra 15,500 seats at Allianz for a matzah to cover the gap between what nsw gov t was willing to pay compared to vic govt.

Much better we get a 30k sell out at premium ticket prices plus $1million hosting fee than try to sell an extra 15,500 tickets just so we can have some sense of being a big sport.
 

Pommy

Coach
Messages
14,657
Pommy what don't you understand about the business model being used for rlwc's now. Melbourne would have bid big $'s for the decent fixtures they have got, you would need to sell the extra 15,500 seats at Allianz for a matzah to cover the gap between what nsw gov t was willing to pay compared to vic govt.

Much better we get a 30k sell out at premium ticket prices plus $1million hosting fee than try to sell an extra 15,500 tickets just so we can have some sense of being a big sport.

I do understand it but I just think it's flawed.
You rattle on about the NRL not paying any attention to the fans in WA all the time. How much attention are the RLIf paying to the fans in Sydney? They should be working to being able to get a decent crowd at the redeveloped ANZ, clearly they're not starting now. It's a joke, of course this is just my opinion.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
Not the priority, Sydney fans have hardly done themselves any favours in their support of Int RL in the past and money in the bank is far more important to the rlif than appeasing Sydney fans or panthers CEO's. Give me 30k in AAMI and a significant profit over, hopefully but not guaranteed, 45k in Sydney with no money from nsw govt
 

Last Week

Bench
Messages
3,646
People quick to say that Sydney didn't get games because of lack of crowds. The only reason why Sydney didn't get more games is because the NSW government withdrew from negotiations.

The organisers were desperate to put games in Sydney and took a VERY basic deal together for the two games that we did get. Pretty sure the deal covers hiring costs and staff and that's about it.
 

Pommy

Coach
Messages
14,657
Not the priority, Sydney fans have hardly done themselves any favours in their support of Int RL in the past and money in the bank is far more important to the rlif than appeasing Sydney fans or panthers CEO's. Give me 30k in AAMI and a significant profit over, hopefully but not guaranteed, 45k in Sydney with no money from nsw govt

Yeah why try and develop international league in the sports strongest city? There's absolutely zero profit to be made doing that.
Yet Perth need a team because...
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
We've been playing IRL in Sydney for a hundred years, and it still needs developing? Don't make me laugh. There's a reason IRL isn't played in Sydney anymore, because fans there arent interested. And at end of day the RLWC has a city bid hosting model, simple as that. NSW govt wouldn't pay, other govt's did. This will mean greater income for the rlif. IRL owes Sydney RL fans nothing. If the WA govt didn't stump up serious $'s for a game I wouldn't blame the NRL or rlif for us not hosting a game knowing what the decision model is. The days of cities arrogantly believing they deserve big RL events is disappearing as increasingly govt's seek the sports tourism $.

Suggest you vote differently next election lol.
 

Pommy

Coach
Messages
14,657
We've been playing IRL in Sydney for a hundred years, and it still needs developing? Don't make me laugh. There's a reason IRL isn't played in Sydney anymore, because fans there arent interested. And at end of day the RLWC has a city bid hosting model, simple as that. NSW govt wouldn't pay, other govt's did. This will mean greater income for the rlif. IRL owes Sydney RL fans nothing. If the WA govt didn't stump up serious $'s for a game I wouldn't blame the NRL or rlif for us not hosting a game knowing what the decision model is. The days of cities arrogantly believing they deserve big RL events is disappearing as increasingly govt's seek the sports tourism $.

Suggest you vote differently next election lol.

Was that back when it wasn't as open as it could potentially be this time around? 3 teams could potentially lift the trophy this time around.
I'm a fan I don't give a f**k about a city bid model. I want the city with th largest population of RL fans to actually get some decent games.
I can't even vote so that's going to be difficult.

You can say what you want but any fan who thinks it's acceptable for those running the sport to not give its biggest fan base a single 1/4 final is a merkin.
I wouldn't expect any less from someone who hates Sydney so much.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
Well it seems the NRL is happy to. They have decided the business model is based on cities bidding for games. If nsw govt doesn't want to pay for major sports events that's not the nrl's problem. If Sydney RL fans got to games and sold them out at premium ticket price then the business model might be different, but they don't so it isn't. Take the $500kmcity bid plus gate receipts or just hope Sydney fans go to games?
I know which I'd be choosing if organising a tournament that needs to fund the international game for the next 4 years. It's same with soo, the whinging from nsw fans at games going to Melbourne and Perth is embarrassing, the only reason being they give that Sydney is entitled to two games, despite not being able to get 80k fans twice to them. The days of it being nswrl are over folks, the game is growing up and your sense of entitlement is over.
 

Last Week

Bench
Messages
3,646
Well it seems the NRL is happy to. They have decided the business model is based on cities bidding for games. If nsw govt doesn't want to pay for major sports events that's not the nrl's problem. If Sydney RL fans got to games and sold them out at premium ticket price then the business model might be different, but they don't so it isn't. Take the $500kmcity bid plus gate receipts or just hope Sydney fans go to games?
I know which I'd be choosing if organising a tournament that needs to fund the international game for the next 4 years. It's same with soo, the whinging from nsw fans at games going to Melbourne and Perth is embarrassing, the only reason being they give that Sydney is entitled to two games, despite not being able to get 80k fans twice to them. The days of it being nswrl are over folks, the game is growing up and your sense of entitlement is over.

Wow. Such epic dribble and didn't answer the question at all.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
answer to your question, I think we play IRL at venues that will A) draw a good crowd B) have decent facilities that make the game look like more than club footy C) that will make the most money.

If that means abandoning Sydney then yes. The game is none the poorer in Sydney for the October test match being played in Perth rather than Parramatta and overall the game is better off.

if NSW govt/stadium are willing to pay for hosting rights, fans get out to the game in decent numbers and Sydney has an appropriately sized modern stadium to play a test match in then they can host one.

does that answer your question?
 

Last Week

Bench
Messages
3,646
answer to your question, I think we play IRL at venues that will A) draw a good crowd B) have decent facilities that make the game look like more than club footy C) that will make the most money.

If that means abandoning Sydney then yes. The game is none the poorer in Sydney for the October test match being played in Perth rather than Parramatta and overall the game is better off.

if NSW govt/stadium are willing to pay for hosting rights, fans get out to the game in decent numbers and Sydney has an appropriately sized modern stadium to play a test match in then they can host one.

does that answer your question?

No, not really. I'll rephrase it since the context of my original question appears lost on you.

Do you think the game should not nurture or development international Rugby League in Sydney?

Just to remind you, that you scoffed at the notion of developing international Rugby League in Sydney and you have offered no logical or reasoned argument as to why.
 

PaulyTom

Juniors
Messages
1,075
Sydney got 2 games. These 2 games could potentially have the best atmosphere of any of the world cup games of the rlwc 2017.

Robbie Farar will play for Lebanon too which will create some headlines.
 

miguel de cervantes

First Grade
Messages
7,469
Wouldn't surprise me in the least if the NSW government thought it was given they would be attributed games (see rants above) and so didn't bother bidding. In which case this is the correct result.
 

Last Week

Bench
Messages
3,646
Wouldn't surprise me in the least if the NSW government thought it was given they would be attributed games (see rants above) and so didn't bother bidding. In which case this is the correct result.

It most definitely is. The more successful this world cup is, the better the lesson learned by the NSW government.

Considering the English will likely be the largest travelling supporters, I think it's generous Sydney has been given a game involving the English at all.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
No, not really. I'll rephrase it since the context of my original question appears lost on you.

Do you think the game should not nurture or development international Rugby League in Sydney?

Just to remind you, that you scoffed at the notion of developing international Rugby League in Sydney and you have offered no logical or reasoned argument as to why.

No. I think the game should sell its premium product to the highest bidder that can meet the criteria I set above. No city has a God given right to host IRL. My logical reason is that IRL could and should become the cash cow for the games international development that it is for rugby union.
 

Last Week

Bench
Messages
3,646
No. I think the game should sell its premium product to the highest bidder that can meet the criteria I set above. No city has a God given right to host IRL. My logical reason is that IRL could and should become the cash cow for the games international development that it is for rugby union.

f**k me you're thick.

It's not about anyone thinking they have a God given right to host WC matches.

Work with facts. Fact is that Sydney is not any where near as strong as it should be for international rugby league.

Considering it is our largest market for the game that we have a very f**king strong foothold it, it seems logical that we should try and strengthen this markets interest in international rugby league and then capitalise on it. Thus, nurturing and developing this market.

But you're saying that we should just ignore it because we've been playing international football there for over 100 years? f**king moron.

WA has been playing league since the 40's. Why haven't they developed a comp similar in quality and popularity to the NSWRL or QRL? They've had enough time. Why should we try developing the game there any further? Same arguments could be had for Victoria, NZ, southern England, etc etc.
 

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