One for the Quinny bashers

[antonius]

Well all I can say to the last three posters is you haven't watched the games this year, and to Yosh I think the scenario you paint about the backs behind the forward pack applies to all of them including Johns, you are being very selective singling out Carmont, there are a couple of backs worse than him in defence, in fact Carmont has pulled off some solid tackling this year against blokes a lot bigger than him. I'm not denying last year was one he would like to forget defensively, but that would apply to quite a few of our players. Even allowing for that he was the third highest try scorer in 2005, and the second highest in 2004. I repeat Carmont has had a good year thus far,and is much improved defensively, and so has Quinn. I'll tell you something else as well, I'm nowhere near as worried when the attacked is going down his way as I am when it's heading Carneys way.

 

[The Devil]

Actually Tony i have watched games this year and I haven't been a person to bag out Carmont. I remember a game against the Roosters at EAS 2 years ago where he scored a runaway try and never stop trying to bridge the lead that the Roosters had. From then on i've never attempted to bag him out.

But i must say as of late his form has been terrible, and thats not because of the whole team slump. Against the Dragons he and Tighe failed to tackle and wrap up the ball of the ball carrier, allowing Gasnier to offload for a simple try. And the amount of times he allows his man to get outside of him and open up gaps which was evident in the Bulldogs match

And as for try scoring, last year our top try scorer was Salkeld with 12, Carmont had 10 or 8... nothing special.

Yes i have noted that Carmont's defence has picked up this year, but it is in no way enough to warrant saying he is a good defender. If Carmont was at any other NRL club, i don't think he'd be in many starting line-ups

 

[antonius]

Actually Tony i have watched games this year and I haven't been a person to bag out Carmont. I remember a game against the Roosters at EAS 2 years ago where he scored a runaway try and never stop trying to bridge the lead that the Roosters had. From then on i've never attempted to bag him out.

But i must say as of late his form has been terrible, and thats not because of the whole team slump. Against the Dragons he and Tighe failed to tackle and wrap up the ball of the ball carrier, allowing Gasnier to offload for a simple try. And the amount of times he allows his man to get outside of him and open up gaps which was evident in the Bulldogs match

And as for try scoring, last year our top try scorer was Salkeld with 12, Carmont had 10 or 8... nothing special.

Yes i have noted that Carmont's defence has picked up this year, but it is in no way enough to warrant saying he is a good defender. If Carmont was at any other NRL club, i don't think he'd be in many starting line-ups

Like I said there are players in our backline with worse defensive ability than Carmont, players that have on a reg basis let players run around them, you've named two instances,(Incidently the last two games that we have lost) one of which was more Tighes doing than anything Carmont did, and there was another player in the Dragons game that was far worse than either of those two. As for the Bulldogs game I would be pointing the finger at quite a few of our players for defensive lapses, and ball handling lapses before singling out Carmont. I also fail to see what a hairstyle has to do with a players ability, but I guess that's just me. Finally Carmont was the in the top three try scorers in our past two seasons, I would call that a bit better than "nothing special" In fact it was Tighe who was our top try scorer with 12 last year. I have not said he is a good defender, what I have said is he's better than some of the other backs.

 

[The Devil]

Well in the instances that Tighe is at fault we must consider that

A) He is not a regular FG, he does not have the experience that Carmont has had

B) He is playing out of position, he is a Centre first and foremost, and a 5/8. Reading the defence from a wingers perspective is a tough thing to do.
Which is why Carney makes quite a few mistakes.. wingers suffer the ends of the spectrum, they can be the hero scoring the winning try.. or they can be subject to the wrath of their supporters by making an error in judgement. Carmont makes too many errors for my liking

Now from point A, any centre who has a solid 3 years of FG experience and come up with the defensive lapses that Carmont has... its just inexcusable. And also Carmont has been in our top tryscorers list because he's always been there. Whilst all our other backs have been injured (Gidley, Cooper, Seage, Thaiday etc) and suspended (Quinn) Carmont was the one that stayed around the longest. I'm pretty sure he play at least 20 games last season, so to rack up 8 tries, whilst Tighe and Salkeld who would have had 10-15 games in FG scored more. Sure you could argue that they are Wingers, but if Carmont is not a defensive centre, then he must be more of an offensive centre.

My mistake about Tighe and Salkeld, got them mixed up. And also we did not judge Carmont's ability based on his hair, it was a comment.

So for someone who is probably our most 2nd most experienced in our back 5 to be making the same errors all over again is almost inexcusable. Though this can all be traced back to super coach.

And this criticism is not only directed at Carmont either, i believe the same can be said for Tanner and Reynoldson. They just cannot seem to read the defence properly or in time.

 

[TooheysNew]

I also fail to see what a hairstyle has to do with a players ability, but I guess that's just me.

It's called a joke. Doesn't anyone have a sense of humour anymore?





;-)

 

[Burwood]

It's called a joke. Doesn't anyone have a sense of humour anymore?

;-)

The "Is that you, Hagan?" line seems to get used here a fair bit, but I think this calls for us asking Antonius- is that you, Carmont?

Or could it be that Antonius took offense to my hair comments because he himself has a haircut similar to Carmont's?:?:

Either way, I think that it was clear to most people that the comments were made in jest.

 

[RABK]

If you're going to bag Carmont for his drop in form after a brilliant start to the year then 80% of the team deserves to be bagged.

 

[Johns Magic]

The Carmont bashers are amazing, earlier this year when our forwards where going forward and our halves were performing he was great and people were talking him up.

Now that the above isnt happening his worse then dreadful again, considering his defence has been pretty good - lot better then some who are getting accolades, and his attack has been up their metre was with the best in the team.

People need to remember its very hard to perform when your getting ball at the wrong time and your forwards arent going forward.

Agreed to an extent, however I do have a real problem with the way Carmont is completely dependant on Andrew Johns. I think that he's the type of player who needs everything laid out on a platter for him to capitalise on an opportunity in attack. He's muscled up in defence more this season though, which is good.

It's not that he doesn't try, it's just that he seems to crumble when under pressure. You need people to stand up when the going gets tough. He certainly isn't a guy you'd want to be in the trenches with.

Earlier this year when, as you said, everybody was praising him, I made sure not to let myself get sucked into the euphoria. He was great when we were scoring 50 points a game, but I wanted to wait until I saw him in a tight situation before claiming that he was a changed player. I'm glad I did.

He's too old to be "developing", especially when it's at the expense of Tighe. I'd love to see him gone.

 

[Burwood]

In today's Herald there was a short article on who the Knights had shown "expression of interest' in as a replacement for Gidley. The two names mentioned were:

1) Brett Delaney
2) Tame Tupou

It would be very interesting if the Knights managed to snare one of those two players (however I can't really picture Tupou in a red and blue jersey).

 

[antonius]

Well in the instances that Tighe is at fault we must consider that

A) He is not a regular FG, he does not have the experience that Carmont has had

B) He is playing out of position, he is a Centre first and foremost, and a 5/8. Reading the defence from a wingers perspective is a tough thing to do.
Which is why Carney makes quite a few mistakes.. wingers suffer the ends of the spectrum, they can be the hero scoring the winning try.. or they can be subject to the wrath of their supporters by making an error in judgement. Carmont makes too many errors for my liking

Now from point A, any centre who has a solid 3 years of FG experience and come up with the defensive lapses that Carmont has... its just inexcusable. And also Carmont has been in our top tryscorers list because he's always been there. Whilst all our other backs have been injured (Gidley, Cooper, Seage, Thaiday etc) and suspended (Quinn) Carmont was the one that stayed around the longest. I'm pretty sure he play at least 20 games last season, so to rack up 8 tries, whilst Tighe and Salkeld who would have had 10-15 games in FG scored more. Sure you could argue that they are Wingers, but if Carmont is not a defensive centre, then he must be more of an offensive centre.

My mistake about Tighe and Salkeld, got them mixed up. And also we did not judge Carmont's ability based on his hair, it was a comment.

So for someone who is probably our most 2nd most experienced in our back 5 to be making the same errors all over again is almost inexcusable. Though this can all be traced back to super coach.

And this criticism is not only directed at Carmont either, i believe the same can be said for Tanner and Reynoldson. They just cannot seem to read the defence properly or in time.

Well it seems you are mistaken on quite a few points, because guess what? Carmonts first season (and most sucessful) was as a winger yep that's right the position tou are saying is hard to defend at. Hagan for some inexpicable reason moved him to centre the following year, prob due to injuries. So lets not use the 3 years experience as a reason to bag him. This is his third year here, and the first of them he spent playing on the wing, which incidently is where I reckon he should play, so in fact he's spent roughly the same amount of time in both positions. As for the hair style comment, I metioned it because the basis for bagging him seemed to have lowered itself to his appearance (and no I don't have a haircut remotely resembling either of Carmonts recent efforts, and niether am I Carmont LOL.) I just felt the debate on his playing abilities has de-generated to include what people looked like, hardly constructive comment. Bu the way Tighe was our top try scorer in 2005 in FIRST GRADE. So I would argue that he's inexperienced. Carmont is by no means my favourite player, but I think he cops more crap than he deserves compared to some of our more higher regarded players, who certainly lack in the department you're bagging Carmont for. Wouldn't mind seeing Delaney here either.

 

[Roy]

i thought topou had already resinged with the broncos, an delaney is going to be a lock not a back.

 

[The Devil]

So has the Gidley transfer been officially confirmed yet?

Tighe was our top tryscorer in First Grade, but how many games has he had? I'd say he's had less than 20 FG games, which to me is not very experienced, some may argue otherwise but i still regard that as being rather inexperienced.

All i'm saying is that Carmont gets caught in defence too many times to warrant re-selection each week. I know other players deserve the same treatment and some examples i've said before are Reynoldson and Tanner.

The point I made about the wing being the hardest position to defend and read the defence - as you know is when to come in, if to come in, whether to stay on your man, do you trust the centre in completing the tackle wetc etc - having to go through so many possibilities in such a short amount of time puts pressure on the winger and if the winger makes a mistake, he gets roasted for it.

In the Dragons game Gasnier ran at Carmont, but failed to complete the tackle and wrap up the ball, but was still hanging on. Tighe had to come in and help complete the tackle or else Gasnier would get the offload and create an overlap. Gasnier slips the ball out to the winger and he scores. Now in one of your previous posts, you've claimed thats Tighe's fault. Maybe but Carmont really should have completed the tackle.

I can see that his defence has picked up recently, but nowhere near the standard that we should be expecting of the whole team.

 

[Jono078]

In today's Herald there was a short article on who the Knights had shown "expression of interest' in as a replacement for Gidley. The two names mentioned were:

1) Brett Delaney
2) Tame Tupou

It would be very interesting if the Knights managed to snare one of those two players (however I can't really picture Tupou in a red and blue jersey).

I hope we dont get either of them tbh.

 

[knights9]

In today's Herald there was a short article on who the Knights had shown "expression of interest' in as a replacement for Gidley. The two names mentioned were:

1) Brett Delaney
2) Tame Tupou

It would be very interesting if the Knights managed to snare one of those two players (however I can't really picture Tupou in a red and blue jersey).

I think Delaney is a waste we dont need him the only good thing about him his ability to kick goals.

Tupou would be great his big strong and knows how to find the line would be a great signing IMO.

 

[antonius]

Brad Tighe=22 First grade games
George Carmont=55 first grade games.
Surprising thing is they both nominate wing as their prefered positions (could explain both their defensive capabilities) I would have said wing is Tighes worst position, he is much better at 5/8th, or centre, whilst I think wing suits Carmont much better. To be perfectly honest I'm not fussed one way or the other on Carmont, and think Tighe is a way better prospect, I also think we have some juniors coming through in the backs that would be pressure Carmont for a first grade spot as well.

 

[The Devil]

Yeh i just saw their profiles on the Knights website as well.. and that surprised me really. Being on the wing limits Tighes capacity to do something with the ball.