Organised crime and drugs in sport investigation part III

[Joker's Wild]

I know the rules, Im just expressing my belief that they are unfair

Can a player really know what went into their club suplied protein shake after training? Should they all have a test kit with them?

 

[elbusto]

I know the rules, Im just expressing my belief that they are unfair

Can a player really know what went into their club suplied protein shake after training? Should they all have a test kit with them?

If a Club Doctor says you are taking substance A but gives you substance B - that is an entirely different thing to what is being discussed here.

 

[Danish]

If a Club Doctor says you are taking substance A but gives you substance B - that is an entirely different thing to what is being discussed here.

Not according to WADA code its not. Their code specifically states that even if a player has been unknowingly doped by their coach, they will still be banned. They are however applicable for a reduction in the ban length.

That doesn't really apply here though given the AFL players signed documents stating precisely what they were taking, and at least 1 of them knew enough about it to admit on national television to the precise name of the banned drugs he'd been injected with.

 

[Danish]

Tbh I think it would be shit for any player to be punished if its proven that they took a banned substance under the advice and policy of a club offical, be it a doctor or coaching staff. They are in a position of trust and an individual cant be expected to go against team policy

However, if a player went out on their own and willingly sourced and consumed a banned substance then they deserve everything they get

If that were the case then no player would ever be banned for doping ever, as they'd all simply hide behind the "coach told me it was ok" excuse.

At the end of the day, you are responsible for what goes into your body, and as fully grown adults they should be capable of saying no. A club can't force them to inject drugs, nor can they fire them for refusing to do so. Given the Essendon players were given details lists of what they were taking and signed off on it, then they are completely culpable in my books.

Any one of them could have easily taken that form to AFL HQ and asked them about it, or taken it to ASADA to try and get clarification that everything listed was on the up and up.... but they didn't.

 

[Perth Red]

Hopefully if anything good comes out of this mess it will be a wake up call that players are not human guinea pigs to be filling full of artificial sht that does not belong in an athletes body.

The NRL should come out with an authorised suppliments programme. Only suppliments registered by the NRL can be used by any player in the game at all levels. Will stop any confusion and the experimenting. FFS who gives someone Warfarin if they don't medically need it?

 

[magpie4ever]

Hopefully if anything good comes out of this mess it will be a wake up call that players are not human guinea pigs to be filling full of artificial sht that does not belong in an athletes body.

The NRL should come out with an authorised suppliments programme. Only suppliments registered by the NRL can be used by any player in the game at all levels. Will stop any confusion and the experimenting. FFS who gives someone Warfarin if they don't medically need it?

I believe you will find that a few of us on here have been advocating this since the allegation of illegal supplements broke.

I will state again, no AFL player has been cleared.

 

[El Diablo]

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/es...e-doping-charges/story-fni5f6kv-1226696644875

Essendon scandal: ASADA says case is not closed and players could still face doping charges

Grant Baker, Jon Ralph
Herald Sun
August 14, 2013 12:45PM

The Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority said today statements from the AFL regarding possible doping charges against individual players should not be taken to mean that the case is closed.

AFL general counsel Andrew Dillon said last night: “The AFL also advised that in relation to Essendon players, although WADA has declared AOD-9604 is a banned substance, on the information before the AFL there is no specific Anti-Doping Rule violation attributed to any individual player for use of AOD-9604 or any other prohibited substance.

“As such, at the present time, no infraction notices will be issued under the AFL Anti-Doping code”.

Essendon captain Jobe Watson said he and his players felt “vindicated” by that statement.

But ASADA has told the Herald Sun the investigation continues; and the possibility of future charges remains.

“Given this investigation is ongoing, ASADA is not providing any further comment on its interim report. As we have previously noted, it is a complex investigation and ASADA has a duty of care to be both thorough and accurate in every step of the process,” an ASADA spokesman said.

“Should ASADA form the view at the conclusion of its investigation that a person may have committed an anti-doping rule violation ASADA will follow its established process”.

 

[Perth Red]

Thing I don't understand about Essendon case is the players signed consent forms that said they were taking AOD-9604 didn't they? What more evidence does ASADA need? I would have thought the existence of these forms showing what they have taken would have been enough to warrant a violation charge?

 

[magpie4ever]

Thing I don't understand about Essendon case is the players signed consent forms that said they were taking AOD-9604 didn't they? What more evidence does ASADA need? I would have thought the existence of these forms showing what they have taken would have been enough to warrant a violation charge?

I don't believe, what the consent form actually stated, has been made public. Seems to be more heresay; just like the mysterious email Dank claims WADA/ASADA sent him clearing certain supplements.

 

[Card Shark]

Thing I don't understand about Essendon case is the players signed consent forms that said they were taking AOD-9604 didn't they? What more evidence does ASADA need? I would have thought the existence of these forms showing what they have taken would have been enough to warrant a violation charge?

Sounds simple but obviously is not...

None of this mess is.

 

[Sugar]

Tbh I think it would be shit for any player to be punished if its proven that they took a banned substance under the advice and policy of a club offical, be it a doctor or coaching staff. They are in a position of trust and an individual cant be expected to go against team policy

However, if a player went out on their own and willingly sourced and consumed a banned substance then they deserve everything they get

If thats the case whats stopping a club hiring a couple of nuffies shoving a heap of cash at them and putting them in charge of the supplement program.
Heres your box of goodies, your cash and if shit hits the fan we sack you, you take the wrap and the cash and the players dont cop anything.
Sounds stupid but could happen if it lands squarly on staff not players

 

[PoWdErFiNgEr84]

The AFL will have no say in it, if ASADA comes up with clear and strong evidence the players have doped then AFL will have to ban them. If ASADA fail to do so then AFL will not, no different from what will happen in the NRL. WADA will not stand by and let AFL do nothing if their is evidence.

Tbh I think it would be shit for any player to be punished if its proven that they took a banned substance under the advice and policy of a club offical, be it a doctor or coaching staff. They are in a position of trust and an individual cant be expected to go against team policy

However, if a player went out on their own and willingly sourced and consumed a banned substance then they deserve everything they get

It maybe shit but according to doping/ASADA/WADA rules the players should know what's going into their bodies

I assume you have no problem with what the East German's did or what the Chinese were accused of doing in the 90's/00's. These are grown men who have been given enough education on the fact they are the only ones responsible for what goes in their body.

 

[Joker's Wild]

I believe I clarrified my point after this quote mate. If they knowingly took banned substances then its on them.

Its a hugely grey area and I think the rules governing this are too black and white

 

[magpie4ever]

I believe I clarrified my point after this quote mate. If they knowingly took banned substances then its on them.

Its a hugely grey area and I think the rules governing this are too black and white

It needs to be black and white, when there was a grey area too many fall guys were available to get the athletic off any charge.

All players (NRL, AFL and union, soccer etc) have had compulsory education (lectures) on the performance enhancing supplements. There can be no excuses.

 

[Ernest the Sheep]

If thats the case whats stopping a club hiring a couple of nuffies shoving a heap of cash at them and putting them in charge of the supplement program.
Heres your box of goodies, your cash and if shit hits the fan we sack you, you take the wrap and the cash and the players dont cop anything.
Sounds stupid but could happen if it lands squarly on staff not players

I'd have thought what has happened with EFC would be a fairly significant deterrent for such behaviour, don't you think? I mean really, do you honestly think such a scheme would turn out good for any footy club stupid enough to try it on?

 

[Ernest the Sheep]

If that were the case then no player would ever be banned for doping ever, as they'd all simply hide behind the "coach told me it was ok" excuse.

At the end of the day, you are responsible for what goes into your body, and as fully grown adults they should be capable of saying no. A club can't force them to inject drugs, nor can they fire them for refusing to do so. Given the Essendon players were given details lists of what they were taking and signed off on it, then they are completely culpable in my books.

Any one of them could have easily taken that form to AFL HQ and asked them about it, or taken it to ASADA to try and get clarification that everything listed was on the up and up.... but they didn't.

hysterical nonsense. Each case should be treated on its merit. Anyway these codes were initially drafted for individual sports where it can be rightly said that each individual is responsible for what they take. And even if the players were to escape a ban, as long as the club is punished, then that should serve as a big enough deterrent such that any club will want to make sure everything is above board.

 

[Joker's Wild]

It needs to be black and white, when there was a grey area too many fall guys were available to get the athletic off any charge.

All players (NRL, AFL and union, soccer etc) have had compulsory education (lectures) on the performance enhancing supplements. There can be no excuses.

Mate, I seriously doubt they can keep up with what's legal and what's not. There is new stuff coming out on a weekly basis just about. The issue of disclosure from those that are supplying the substances need to come into question.

The law is never black and white and neither should the band substance rules

 

[Danish]

hysterical nonsense. Each case should be treated on its merit. Anyway these codes were initially drafted for individual sports where it can be rightly said that each individual is responsible for what they take. And even if the players were to escape a ban, as long as the club is punished, then that should serve as a big enough deterrent such that any club will want to make sure everything is above board.

Why would it matter if it is an individual sport or not?

A track runner has just as many coaches, nutritionists, managers, etc all employed to control their training as a team sport player. In fact one could argue that an individual sport competitor would actually be MORE inclined to put their trust in the advice of their support staff given the much more personal relationship they would have with them.

Bottom line is if you are legally an adult, then you are legally responsible for your own intake. There can be no exceptions.

Banning a competitor for being injected with PEDs that they weren't aware of might seem unfair to the individual, but thats not what the ban is about. The ban is about maintaining the integrity of the sport itself, and having athletes running around who have been assisted by PEDs - regardless of whether or not they knew they were taking them - destroys that integrity.

 

[Stinkler]

Hey Danish, what if it was the Roosters in the shit, with star players caught up?
Still have the same attitude?

 

[Danish]

Hey Danish, what if it was the Roosters in the shit, with star players caught up?
Still have the same attitude?

Yes.

You can't have players on PEDs in the sport. It is simply unfair on the other athletes to ask them to compete at a disadvantage