organised crime and juice of the elephant pt V

[BuffaloRules]

that's what i was thinking.

Why should they be compensated?

So if this fund is set up what is to stop players in the future thinking "well i can dope up and if i get caught it's all good because i'll be entitled to some cash from the, I got caught cheating fund, happy days"


They have been caught cheating,take your punishment,end of story.

Weren't they told the supplements were legal by club officials ( their employer)?

So now that are found to be illegal they have loss of earnings, mental anguish, damage to reputation...

Also, it appears that that their Employer cant actually tell them what they were injected with, so if they have any health problems in the future (out of a group of 34 this will be inevitable), they can claim it was as a result of what was put into their bodies.

 

[butchmcdick]

I thought under the wada code the athlete was responsible for what they ingest

There are so many education sessions these guys attend in regards to this plus 24 hour a day hotlines they can ring if they have any doubt

Hell a simple google search for banned wada drugs comes up with the entire list

http://list.wada-ama.org

There is even a free app you can download with the entire list of banned substances

Ignorance isn't an excuse

 

[BuffaloRules]

I thought under the wada code the athlete was responsible for what they ingest

There are so many education sessions these guys attend in regards to this plus 24 hour a day hotlines they can ring if they have any doubt

Hell a simple google search for banned wada drugs comes up with the entire list

http://list.wada-ama.org

There is even a free app you can download with the entire list of banned substances

Ignorance isn't an excuse

Yes, hence why they have been found guilty and suspended.

I still think their Employer has not created a safe workplace for them, and given them the wrong advice so they will be liable for damages.

 

[butchmcdick]

I agree

I think both the club and the players are at fault

 

[no name]

Yes, hence why they have been found guilty and suspended.

I still think their Employer has not created a safe workplace for them, and given them the wrong advice so they will be liable for damages.

But as someone has pointed out, for the club to be liable then the players have to admit to taking drugs (even if it is unwittingly)

They can't claim they have always been 'clean' and then sue the club for administering the injections.

 

[BuffaloRules]

But as someone has pointed out, for the club to be liable then the players have to admit to taking drugs (even if it is unwittingly)

They can't claim they have always been 'clean' and then sue the club for administering the injections.

Havent they admitted to taking to taking the injections ?( which they were incorrectly advised were legal)

 

[betcats]

I thought under the wada code the athlete was responsible for what they ingest

There are so many education sessions these guys attend in regards to this plus 24 hour a day hotlines they can ring if they have any doubt

Hell a simple google search for banned wada drugs comes up with the entire list

http://list.wada-ama.org

There is even a free app you can download with the entire list of banned substances

Ignorance isn't an excuse

They can still sue their employers for damages if they were misled or whatever. WADA and the CAS decision would not be effected by any civil case between the players and the club/afl.

 

[betcats]

But as someone has pointed out, for the club to be liable then the players have to admit to taking drugs (even if it is unwittingly)

They can't claim they have always been 'clean' and then sue the club for administering the injections.

Yeah that is the catch, for them to get damages they basically have to admit that the punishments they got were deserved, they cant maintain their innocence under the wada code and still sue for damages imo. They have to admit they were duped and given something which makes them guilty under the wada code.

I am still finding it hard to believe the AFL ceo, Essendon and the players are still mainting their innocence.

 

[BuffaloRules]

The point I am making is that they wont have to sue the club or the AFL as they will be compensated anyway.

 

[thorson1987]

Yeah that is the catch, for them to get damages they basically have to admit that the punishments they got were deserved, they cant maintain their innocence under the wada code and still sue for damages imo. They have to admit they were duped and given something which makes them guilty under the wada code.

I am still finding it hard to believe the AFL ceo, Essendon and the players are still mainting their innocence.

Really??????

I find it very easy to believe.

 

[Pierced Soul]

I thought under the wada code the athlete was responsible for what they ingest

they are, but no one wants to accept responsibility when they've done the wrong thing and its easier to blame someone else.

admittedly it can be hard in a sport where your place in a team is related to following what the coaching staff tell you to do, especially if you're a younger player

 

[BrisbaneRhino]

If the club had lied about what was injected then the players' ignorance defence would be sustainable. As it is the players clearly knew the name of what was being injected (or at least had the chance to find out). In that circumstance all the responsibility is with them individually for knowing whether the substance is legal.

Whilst I have some sympathy with the players, the problem is that the ignorance defence is just too easy to use and if you let one use it, it would open the gate for everyone to do the same.

 

[betcats]

If the club had lied about what was injected then the players' ignorance defence would be sustainable. As it is the players clearly knew the name of what was being injected (or at least had the chance to find out). In that circumstance all the responsibility is with them individually for knowing whether the substance is legal.

Whilst I have some sympathy with the players, the problem is that the ignorance defence is just too easy to use and if you let one use it, it would open the gate for everyone to do the same.

Not for WADA. Every sprinter ever caught has tried to pretend the coach lied to them but they still get banned, it is no different for a team. Someone lying to you is not a valid defence for WADA. Their stance is the athletes shouldn't be taking anyones word on what a substance is before they put it in their bodies, the athletes need to find out themselves what it is or they put themselves at risk.

 

[sensesmaybenumbed]

That's part of the reason the vfl has thrown a tantrum - plausible deniability is their standard excuse, and that simply won't fly for WADA

 

[Phil McGrawhan]

I only know 2 pro sport athletes personally & they are very very very anal about what goes in their body .
They read every label
They check every substance .
& they are not at the level of the highest pro sportsmen in AUST .
I know a lot of fitness fanatics ..runners etc ..& they are basically the same .

The I just followed advice from the club is bullshit .
You can follow advice ....after you check .
If you were lied to then maybe you'd have a case .
I don't think most of the Essingdope mob were innocent .
Maybe the new young players were worried about not following their clubs advice & what their team mates were doing ...
But still they could have checked .

 

[Pete Cash]

Of course they should have checked that's why they are being punished. The club put them in an awful position though.

 

[DiegoNT]

2 things from the afl that don't make any sense
'Wada doesn't fit with team sports'
- technically speaking cycling is a team sport, cyclist are part of a team environment with coaches and authority figures, with younger team members always fearful of losing their place within the team (and to a lesser extent older team members trying to keep an edge over up and comers). To say that the type of investigation that caught out Armstrong isn't applicable to the afl is bullshit

-'support our boys. They are fine young men'
This is trying to paint them as naive young men yet all are over the age of 20, can vote, join the army, buy a house etc. To say that they are boys led astray is bullshit, one of these guys 40 years old for Christ sake

 

[El Diablo]

The point I am making is that they wont have to sue the club or the AFL as they will be compensated anyway.

i read that channel 7 and Fox Sports are looking at employing Jab the drug cheat

 

[Danish]

The rules of WADA and the rules of a civil lawsuit have nothing to do with each other at any rate, so the players can still be 100% guilty by WADA/ASADA standards while the club can also be 100% liable for the damage to the players' careers.

If there is any proof to the snippets of info showing that Dank and co were secretly injecting some of the players with new compounds that had never been tested in humans before, then they could be on the hook for f**king millions. Rightfully so as well, as that is a disgusting abuse of trust and frankly should land people in gaol IMO

 

[magpie4ever]

What happened in the court cases launched by some of the ex Cronulla players against the Sharkies? (Serious question)