OT: Association Football

[bazza]

These kids are all healthy looking and all play sport. They just don't play unsupervised in the street.

I reckon Queensland rugby league players grew up playing unsupervised with their friends while NSW players only ever played in heavily coached and managed games. Which shows up in origin time where QLD can play what is happening on the field and NSW can't play with anyone that they haven't been coached with for 5 years

probably the same for Australian soccer players compared to a lot of the world

 

[Twizzle]

probably the same for Australian soccer players compared to a lot of the world

Most, or all of, our women's and men's international players all play, or have played in Asia or Europen leagues as that way they can make a living. I'm not sure A League is a full time gig for fringe players.

 

[bazza]

Most, or all of, our women's and men's international players all play, or have played in Asia or Europen leagues as that way they can make a living. I'm not sure A League is a full time gig for fringe players.

I meant more how much unstructured play do Australia soccer players have growing up compared to kids growing up in other countries

 

[Twizzle]

I meant more how much unstructured play do Australia soccer players have growing up compared to kids growing up in other countries

the structure in their play is determined by their coach at representative levels and upwards, but yeah, I get what you mean, we're not as robotic in our structure as some football mad countries

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I reckon Queensland rugby league players grew up playing unsupervised with their friends while NSW players only ever played in heavily coached and managed games. Which shows up in origin time where QLD can play what is happening on the field and NSW can't play with anyone that they haven't been coached with for 5 years

probably the same for Australian soccer players compared to a lot of the world

It’s a pretty good point. I remember reading a thing about the problems with the pipeline of soccer players in Australia. It said that the best athletes tend to come from rural areas but in Australia soccer was a purely urban sport.

In hindsight, I don’t know how accurate or current that was, especially about the best players coming from the country. Given the best players are all contracted to massive urban professional cubs by the age of ten it doesn’t seem relevant where they come from.

Or maybe it’s the earliest years that matter the most. Four year olds spending 12 hours a day practicing the elastico in some third world goat paddock might be the most important phase of a player’s development.

 

[bazza]

the structure in their play is determined by their coach at representative levels and upwards, but yeah, I get what you mean, we're not as robotic in our structure as some football mad countries

I was thinking more that Australian soccer players might not be as skillful or game smart due to playing only structured games

 

[hindy111]

It’s a pretty good point. I remember reading a thing about the problems with the pipeline of soccer players in Australia. It said that the best athletes tend to come from rural areas but in Australia soccer was a purely urban sport.

In hindsight, I don’t know how accurate or current that was, especially about the best players coming from the country. Given the best players are all contracted to massive urban professional cubs by the age of ten it doesn’t seem relevant where they come from.

Or maybe it’s the earliest years that matter the most. Four year olds spending 12 hours a day practicing the elastico in some third world goat paddock might be the most important phase of a player’s development.

I'd say our issues with soccer flow down to the way kids are coached and play. Go and watch these kids in Europe and kids will be given a position from a very young age. If they are only seen as a goalie or striker or defender than that's your role.
They are learning that position from age 5 or 6 etc. Where here all you see is a bunch of kids chasing the ball and everyone getting equal opportunity to score a goal.

 

[Incorrect]

From what I've seen, there's almost a cult-like element to these soccer academies that seem to be popping up everywhere. And they're not cheap. Parents on low incomes would be struggling to send their kids long term. And this creates a problem where you end up with some kids who are only selected in some of these elite clubs teams because they have parents who have some coin and who sponsor or donate to the club and expect their little Johnny or Joanne to be given preferential treatment and a free ride...

It's plausible that many really really talented kids are being jettisoned or overlooked simply because they can't afford the registration fees and/or can't make it to training the requisite 3-4 times per week because their parents are working and so they can't get there... The flip side is you've got the cashed up mum's and dad's who can manage to leave work early (if they work at all) and get their little Prima Mara-Donna's to training no matter what.

There's a feeling that these academy teams are increasingly the domain of the wealthy and that natural ability is no longer the entry ticket it should be.

Contrast this with your African and South American countries where kids are playing the game because a) they love it most importantly, and b) they see it is a legit way out of the impoverished slums and broken social systems they live with every day. Desperation and talent combined make these kids so good. That desperation is not something you'll find in too many Aussie soccer academies I'd wager because the truth is, when they stop playing once the obsession wears off, they still have their privilege and middle class lifestyles to fall back on....

 

[Suitman]

From what I've seen, there's almost a cult-like element to these soccer academies that seem to be popping up everywhere. And they're not cheap. Parents on low incomes would be struggling to send their kids long term. And this creates a problem where you end up with some kids who are only selected in some of these elite clubs teams because they have parents who have some coin and who sponsor or donate to the club and expect their little Johnny or Joanne to be given preferential treatment and a free ride...

It's plausible that many really really talented kids are being jettisoned or overlooked simply because they can't afford the registration fees and/or can't make it to training the requisite 3-4 times per week because their parents are working and so they can't get there... The flip side is you've got the cashed up mum's and dad's who can manage to leave work early (if they work at all) and get their little Prima Mara-Donna's to training no matter what.

There's a feeling that these academy teams are increasingly the domain of the wealthy and that natural ability is no longer the entry ticket it should be.

Contrast this with your African and South American countries where kids are playing the game because a) they love it most importantly, and b) they see it is a legit way out of the impoverished slums and broken social systems they live with every day. Desperation and talent combined make these kids so good. That desperation is not something you'll find in too many Aussie soccer academies I'd wager because the truth is, when they stop playing once the obsession wears off, they still have their privilege and middle class lifestyles to fall back on....

That is a very accurate portrayal of the current state of football in Australia.
I put one of my kids through one of these academies.
It was as expensive as f**k. I saw many kids whose parents had signed up to these academies whose sons were the most talented players by far but could not afford to keep them there. The less talented kids who had rich parents managed to play year after year.
I was a manager for some of these teams and it was very sad to watch what happened to some of the most talented kids whose parents couldn't afford to continue in the program. I even bought one of the kids from Sudan a pair of football boots one season because he kept turning up in joggers, and he was a gun of a player. His parents themselves couldn't afford to buy him boots after they'd spent their money on his training. This kid was lost to the sport.
This is everything that is wrong with football in Australia.

 

[the phantom menace]

That's terrible that the sport takes on the profit motive somewhere between the broad inclusive participation of say the U6s to U12s, and that talented teens are essentially forced out of the game on a socio-economic basis.

Me first capitalist greed rears its head again

 

[T-Boon]

From what I've seen, there's almost a cult-like element to these soccer academies that seem to be popping up everywhere. And they're not cheap. Parents on low incomes would be struggling to send their kids long term. And this creates a problem where you end up with some kids who are only selected in some of these elite clubs teams because they have parents who have some coin and who sponsor or donate to the club and expect their little Johnny or Joanne to be given preferential treatment and a free ride...

It's plausible that many really really talented kids are being jettisoned or overlooked simply because they can't afford the registration fees and/or can't make it to training the requisite 3-4 times per week because their parents are working and so they can't get there... The flip side is you've got the cashed up mum's and dad's who can manage to leave work early (if they work at all) and get their little Prima Mara-Donna's to training no matter what.

There's a feeling that these academy teams are increasingly the domain of the wealthy and that natural ability is no longer the entry ticket it should be.

Contrast this with your African and South American countries where kids are playing the game because a) they love it most importantly, and b) they see it is a legit way out of the impoverished slums and broken social systems they live with every day. Desperation and talent combined make these kids so good. That desperation is not something you'll find in too many Aussie soccer academies I'd wager because the truth is, when they stop playing once the obsession wears off, they still have their privilege and middle class lifestyles to fall back on....

Are there any late bloomers in soccer? I reckon 100% of players who have gone onto play professional soccer have been elite and dominant at the junior level from the age of 8 or so. Other football codes there are tonnes of late bloomer stories.

 

[hindy111]

Are there any late bloomers in soccer? I reckon 100% of players who have gone onto play professional soccer have been elite and dominant at the junior level from the age of 8 or so. Other football codes there are tonnes of late bloomer stories.

Agree

 

[Dark Corner]

Are there any late bloomers in soccer? I reckon 100% of players who have gone onto play professional soccer have been elite and dominant at the junior level from the age of 8 or so. Other football codes there are tonnes of late bloomer stories.

Agree look at Daniel Russell at St.George Illawarra who is 27 year old.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

He only started playing two years ago!!

 

[hindy111]

Agree look at Daniel Russell at St.George Illawarra who is 27 year old.

Virgin?

 

[T-Boon]

He only started playing two years ago!!

For real?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

No

 

[Dark Corner]

Virgin?

Came late to the big party.

 

[Twizzle]

Loving what big Ange has done for Spurs, he's a breath of fresh air

 

[King-Gutho94]

The frustrating thing about the EPL now is City have basically created a monster it's impossible to overtake them over a long season.

You need a lot of luck to beat them them over 38 games.

Any draw at home or away against a lowly side battling for regulation or even mid to bottom half side is costly.