OT: Current Affairs and Politics

[Bandwagon]

I wasn’t referring to ScoMo.

Yeah, I know, you talking about Biden.

Point I was making was Scotty couldn't even reach that low bar.

 

[Gronk]

I wasn’t referring to ScoMo.

Bolt is calling them out too. Click to expand.

 

[Gary Gutful]

I don't agree with any of what Bolt says, just waiting to see more concrete action from Biden.

 

[Gronk]

I don't agree with any of what Bolt says, just waiting to see more concrete action from Biden.

Hard to judge him inside his first 100 days, however he laid out a blue print in January.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...ientific-integrity-across-federal-government/

 

[Bandwagon]

I don't agree with any of what Bolt says, just waiting to see more concrete action from Biden.

Joe will do just enough to keep the the left minority in the Democrats off his back, and then pretty much it's business as usual.

The Sky News morons have no f**king idea when it comes to the actual left, they're too f**king engaged in the culture wars to understand there really is no actual left in US politics.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Joe will do just enough to keep the the left minority in the Democrats off his back, and then pretty much it's business as usual.

The Sky News morons have no f**king idea when it comes to the actual left, they're too f**king engaged in the culture wars to understand there really is no actual left in US politics.

Which is exactly what any leader who is serious about staying in power will do. The rhetoric from most countries at these forums compared to the actions on the ground is pretty funny. The private sector will ultimately be the ones that drive change.

Yeah, there's no real hard left or right in the US. Doesn't stop the likes of Fox and CNN carrying on like bitches. Its a winning formula though, so it doesn't surprise me that Sky News have followed suit.

 

[Bandwagon]

Which is exactly what any leader who is serious about staying in power will do. The rhetoric from most countries at these forums compared to the actions on the ground is pretty funny. The private sector will ultimately be the ones that drive change.

Yeah, there's no real hard left or right in the US. Doesn't stop the likes of Fox and CNN carrying on like bitches. Its a winning formula though, so it doesn't surprise me that Sky News have followed suit.

When I look at what is left and right, I base it on capital vs labour, it simplifies things, perhaps sometimes a bit too much, but on the other hand it removes the noise of the culture wars and idpol, which I find nothing more than a distraction of little import.

On that basis, the Dems are right of centre, the GOP further right, and honestly when you have states that mandate a min wage at like $2.30, cause tips can make the difference, I see that as hard right, and in power.

So I disagree there, the hard right is alive and well in the US.

 

[Gary Gutful]

When I look at what is left and right, I base it on capital vs labour, it simplifies things, perhaps sometimes a bit too much, but on the other hand it removes the noise of the culture wars and idpol, which I find nothing more than a distraction of little import.

On that basis, the Dems are right of centre, the GOP further right, and honestly when you have states that mandate a min wage at like $2.30, cause tips can make the difference, I see that as hard right, and in power.

So I disagree there, the hard right is alive and well in the US.

I think it probably does simplify things too much. Need to also look at views on the role of Government v the private sector, race, abortion, military, environment, religion, immigration etc. Just my personal opinion.

There are factions in both parties that include far left and right viewpoints but overall most policy from either party doesn't veer too far from the middle. Same here in Aus.

Take your point on the minimum wage though...

 

[Bandwagon]

I think it probably does simplify things too much. Need to also look at views on the role of Government v the private sector, race, abortion, military, environment, religion, immigration etc. Just my personal opinion.

There are factions in both parties that include far left and right viewpoints but overall most policy from either party doesn't veer too far from the middle. Same here in Aus.

Take your point on the minimum wage though...

Capital vs Labor still covers some of that, like what is government vs the private sector if not an argument over how much power is held by capital, and how control does government exert over it?

The rest is covered by conservative vs progressive, which is often used as a proxy for left and right. Which is a bit lazy for mine as you can very much have a progressive right and a conservative left. It just so happens it's mostly the other way around.

I agree mostly the arguments revolve not too far from the middle, but I'd also say the middle is prone to shifting quite a bit over time. Rudd's claim for example to being a "fiscal conservative" in 2007 was an acknowledgement that the centre had shifted to the right as far as positions on the economy go.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Capital vs Labor still covers some of that, like what is government vs the private sector if not an argument over how much power is held by capital, and how control does government exert over it?

The rest is covered by conservative vs progressive, which is often used as a proxy for left and right. Which is a bit lazy for mine as you can very much have a progressive right and a conservative left. It just so happens it's mostly the other way around.

I agree mostly the arguments revolve not too far from the middle, but I'd also say the middle is prone to shifting quite a bit over time. Rudd's claim for example to being a "fiscal conservative" in 2007 was an acknowledgement that the centre had shifted to the right as far as positions on the economy go.

Fair points.

Rudd's actions were slightly different to the "fiscal conservative" rhetoric. Helped get him voted though.

 

[Bandwagon]

Fair points.

Rudd's actions were slightly different to the "fiscal conservative" rhetoric. Helped get him voted though.

Yes they were, the point there though is that he saw that it was important to label himself that way to garner votes. Which suggests very strongly that at the least he believed that's where the centre was as far as the Australian voting public were concerned.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Yes they were, the point there though is that he saw that it was important to label himself that way to garner votes. Which suggests very strongly that at the least he believed that's where the centre was as far as the Australian voting public were concerned.

There’s no doubt that slightly right of centre is more popular. Only have to look at the percentage of time that the LNP has been in power over the last 25 years.

But I think that’s also down a bit to Labour’s failure, apart from Rudd to run a decent f**ken campaign. Plenty of swing voters out there waiting for a reason to vote the current mob out.

 

[strider]

The left stopped being the traditional left ..... left became more socially dominated rather than the traditional non-capitalist left that australia came to know .... which i think lost a bit of labors heartland

 

[Gronk]

*LANGUAGE WARNING*

 

[Gary Gutful]

The left stopped being the traditional left ..... left became more socially dominated rather than the traditional non-capitalist left that australia came to know .... which i think lost a bit of labors heartland

Definitely. I think that’s become a trend which is why I suggested to Bandy that the definition needs to be expanded imo.

 

[Gronk]

The left stopped being the traditional left ..... left became more socially dominated rather than the traditional non-capitalist left that australia came to know .... which i think lost a bit of labors heartland

Actually I reckon Labor has become more centrist after they distanced themselves from the Greens. It's all about personality politics in the naughties and Labor won't get elected even by adopting all the populist polices until such time that they have a trustworthy charismatic leader who can overcome the Murdoch media mind f**kery.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Actually I reckon Labor has become more centrist after they distanced themselves from the Greens. It's all about personality politics in the naughties and Labor won't get elected even by adopting all the populist polices until such time that they have a trustworthy charismatic leader who can overcome the Murdoch media mind f**kery.

I struggle to understand what Labor stand for these days. They flip flop more than @Avenger does on the future of our coach.

 

[Gronk]

I struggle to understand what Labor stand for these days. They flip flop more than @Avenger does on the future of our coach.

Agree with the flip-flopping. They are for/against Adani, coal mining etc depending on what state they are in and if there is a By-Election. They have gone away from Labor’s traditional fanbase, at times seek to appeal to progressives, yet ignore Labor’s long-term mission to improve the lives of the working class. These days Labor is seen as a party for the well-to-do virtue signallers rather than a party of character and substance.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Agree with the flip-flopping. They are for/against Adani, coal mining etc depending on what state they are in and if there is a By-Election. They have gone away from Labor’s traditional fanbase, at times seek to appeal to progressives, yet ignore Labor’s long-term mission to improve the lives of the working class. These days Labor is seen as a party for the well-to-do virtue signallers rather than a party of character and substance.

A shame because we need someone to keep the other merkins honest and offer a clear alternative. I think federal Labor could learn a lot from some of their state counterparts.

 

[strider]

I struggle to understand what Labor stand for these days. They flip flop more than @Avenger does on the future of our coach.

OMG they must flip flop alot!!