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OT: Current Affairs and Politics

Bandwagon

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She's right, I didn't hear that in the msm.


It's self fulfilling, if you don't consume mainstream media, you won't hear much at all from the MSM.

First claim, you won't here about Zelensky shutting down three TV stations


Second claim, you won't hear how Zelensky jailed the head of opposition political party


These have been widely reported, with different slants and angles, because as I said earlier the amount of propaganda coming out of this war is next level insane.

Personally if I was seeking any form of truth in this space, I'd retain a healthy level of scepticism on the angle of anything put out by most every US and Russian politician.
 

Gary Gutful

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53,278
It's self fulfilling, if you don't consume mainstream media, you won't hear much at all from the MSM.

First claim, you won't here about Zelensky shutting down three TV stations


Second claim, you won't hear how Zelensky jailed the head of opposition political party


These have been widely reported, with different slants and angles, because as I said earlier the amount of propaganda coming out of this war is next level insane.

Personally if I was seeking any form of truth in this space, I'd retain a healthy level of scepticism on the angle of anything put out by most every US and Russian politician.
Yeah. There is no single source of the truth. Even the “don’t trust msm” brigade have their own biases. But I must say that the way the Ukraine’s head shit bag has been glamourised in some parts is disturbing, albeit unsurprising given the motives of other world leaders.
 

hindy111

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Yeah. There is no single source of the truth. Even the “don’t trust msm” brigade have their own biases. But I must say that the way the Ukraine’s head shit bag has been glamourised in some parts is disturbing, albeit unsurprising given the motives of other world leaders.

He is a pocket rocket
 

Bandwagon

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Yeah. There is no single source of the truth. Even the “don’t trust msm” brigade have their own biases. But I must say that the way the Ukraine’s head shit bag has been glamourised in some parts is disturbing, albeit unsurprising given the motives of other world leaders.

Mate the "don't trust the MSM brigade", by which I don't mean merkins with a healthy level of scepticism, but more the the ones ready to dismiss anything they don't agree with with a "but but the MSM" have the heaviest level of bias you're gonna see, right up there with folks who'll believe near anything because they saw it on CNN or FoxNews.

Those are two sides of the same coin.

On Zelensky, yeah he's being glamorised to ridiculous levels. There's a necessity for that in that support for Ukraine from the west relies to a great extent upon the goodwill of the people of the west. Just as there's a good reason for the Russians to paint an opposite picture, because they know that as well.

Times are getting tough for a lot of folk, and a war in a country that many would have never really heard of, or given a f**k about a year ago is consuming a f**k ton of resources that could be well spent back home, and causing a lot of upheaval on world markets that is really only hurting everyday folk.

That's obviously gonna test the level of support, and if it turns, politicians all over the world will either withdraw or face domestic defeat. Hearts and minds mutha f**kers, you can't win without that.
 

Gronk

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Clearly you need to look beyond the headlines when talking about the consolidation of TV networks and the arrest of Poroshenko.

Firstly, the main context here is that Ukraine is at war with Russia who invaded their sovereign borders. Wind back a bit and examine who Poroshenko really is. He’s a Putin puppet billionaire who won the presidency in 2014. From then on Ukraine did little to upset their neighbours who were occupying previously invaded lands in the Crimea. Essentially Putin was happy that the country would bend over like Belarus does now.

Why was he arrested for treasonist shenanigans ?

The accusations against Poroshenko are linked to an alleged sale of coal that helped finance Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine in 2014-15, while Poroshenko was in office.

Poroshenko, who is now a lawmaker and the leader of the opposition European Solidarity party, accuses his successor, President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, of political persecution.


Is he actually in jail ?

Nope.


What has happened since the Russian invasion ?

UANA SUMMERS, HOST:

Ukraine has had to take extraordinary measures to fight Russia's invasion. Among them, the government has consolidated the country's television outlets and dissolved rival political parties. It says it needs to do this to maintain a united front in fighting Russia. NPR's Emily Feng reports from Kyiv.

EMILY FENG, BYLINE: Before the war, Ukraine had a dizzying array of television news stations. But in March, President Zelenskyy decided to consolidate them into one 24-hour channel. But not all stations were included.

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: (Non-English language spoken).

FENG: This is the swanky studio for Kyiv-based television station Priamyi, which means direct. It was once owned by former Ukrainian president and billionaire Petro Poroshenko. He was also a political competitor of Zelenskyy's, and Priamyi's reports have been excluded from the new national broadcast and most cable networks.

SVITLANA ORLOVSKA: (Through interpreter) We were switched off from digital broadcast and excluded from the national channel. We have not been provided any reasons for this.

FENG: This is Svitlana Orlovska, the executive producer. Before the war, she was concerned mostly with keeping her anchors happy and the shows running on time. Now she's worried about the network's survival.

ORLOVSKA: (Through interpreter) We do hope we can begin broadcasting again after Ukraine wins the war. But during the martial law, there are certain restrictions. We cannot oppose our exclusion.

FENG: Even before Russia invaded in February, some of Ukraine's opposition media outlet said they faced political pressure from President Zelenskyy's government. Volodymyr Mzhelskyi directs one of Ukraine's oldest television stations, Channel 5. It was also previously owned by former President Poroshenko, who sold his media holdings under a 2021 Ukrainian law.

VOLODYMYR MZHELSKYI: (Through interpreter) After Channel 5 was sold, the government suspected the sale was false and Poroshenko still controlled the station. We felt consistently pressure from institutions like the broadcast regulator. We have numerous lawsuits filed against us by current and former members of Parliament.

FENG: Why the government attention, I ask him.

MZHELSKYI: (Through interpreter) I think we were switched off because there was a fear that this time, we would not support the president's point of view.

FENG: Late last year, Zelenskyy announced Poroshenko was being investigated for treason, and this past March, 11 political parties were suspended and any of their elected members dismissed from office for being pro-Russian. Most were fringe, but one party had nearly 10% of seats in Ukraine's Parliament. Ukraine's minister of culture tells NPR Ukraine also had to take a stronger anti-Russian stance when it came to the country's media landscape.

OLEKSANDR TKACHENKO: During the last several years, we definitely realized what does it mean, Russian propagandistic machine. To be united in the time of war, it means that we need to coordinate our efforts.

FENG: And he characterized the lack of any opposition outlets from Ukraine's new national broadcast channel as simply a lack of space.

TKACHENKO: It's a tricky issue, how to include newcomers.

FENG: And Russian interference in Ukraine is a real problem, especially now that there's a hot war with Russia. Another political opponent, the pro-Russian billionaire Viktor Medvedchuk, was recently arrested and his business assets seized because of his close ties to Vladimir Putin. Viktoria Siumar is a member of Parliament and part of the same political party as Poroshenko, technically making her the opposition to Zelenskyy's party. But she stresses she's still a patriot.

VIKTORIA SIUMAR: (Through interpreter) Today I believe in Ukraine that there are no anti-government opposition forces. All Ukrainian politicians are united in opposition to Putin and Putin's Russia.

FENG: But she does have some complaints about Zelenskyy's government.

SIUMAR: (Through interpreter) The first difference is their attitude towards freedom of speech. We fiercely opposed the government on this.

FENG: Restrictions on these worry the opposition, namely that Zelenskyy is clearing out political rivals before the 2024 presidential election. Before the war, he was a deeply unpopular president.

ANDREAS UMLAND: I think there is such a danger of centralization of power or even authoritarian tendencies.

FENG: Andreas Umland is at the Swedish Institute of International Affairs. And he says an adversarial, highly personal party dynamic drives Ukrainian politics.

UMLAND: Parties disappear. New parties arrive. Parties transform. And often, the fate of a party is very much tied to the fate of the leader.

FENG: But despite the restrictions placed under martial law, Umland does not believe Ukraine will ultimately trend authoritarian.

UMLAND: Well, about this sort of now already established consensus in society that there should be always an opposition, that there should be different voices.

FENG: These questions have become only more important as Ukraine tries to join the European Union. Not only does it have to win a war against Russia, it'll have to prove it's a stable government with democratic institutions like a free press.

Emily Feng, NPR News, Kyiv


Is Zelensky free from criticism ? No, but extraordinary measures need to be taken at extraordinary times.

The news that Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelensky has banned eleven opposition parties – including the pro-Russian ‘Opposition – Platform For Life’ which holds 44 seats in the 450-member Ukrainian parliament and has spoken out against the Russian invasion – may be the embattled leader’s first major mistake in the month since Putin launched his brutal invasion.

Zelensky coupled the decree suspending the activities of the parties, decided on by Ukraine’s national defence and security council, with a ban on private TV stations – merging them all into a single state-run TV channel. And that could be his second big error. For Ukraine’s strongest card – the unique selling point that has drawn such sympathy and support from almost the entire democratic world – has been the fact that, in stark contrast to Putin’s repressive Russian state, it is – or was – a free country.

That means that it holds real elections, has a diverse media, and allows politicians critical of the government to get their views heard. All things that we take for granted but which have already disappeared or are fast vanishing in Putin’s prison state. That difference drew a dramatic line between the society that the majority of Ukrainians wished to live in, and the big bad neighbour from hell next door. Tragically, Zelensky’s two moves fatally blur that line.

The danger for Ukraine following these martial law moves is that, however well grounded the decisions are for reasons of its own security, they risk making the country resemble the Russian invader who cracks down on opposition and stifles critical voices. And the western nations that have so far been so solid in their support may start to ask themselves whether Ukraine is now treading a dangerous path.

Zelensky’s motives for his move are obvious. He fears – with considerable justification – that the banned parties, especially the ‘Platform for Life’ – which is the largest opposition party – form a Trojan Horse within the walls of Ukraine that undermine the country’s remarkable fighting spirit and will to resist the invader. This is scarcely surprising. The Platform’s leader, a 67-year-old oligarch named Viktor Medvedchuk, is a pal of Putin whom he has described as ‘a close personal friend’. So close, that the Russian leader is reputed to be the godfather of Medvedchuk’s daughter. In May last year, because of his pro-Russian stance, Medvedchuk was charged with treason and placed under house arrest. Within four days of the February invasion he vanished from his home and his current whereabouts are unknown

 

Gronk

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^^^^^ context. If we were invaded by Indonesia and many of the opposition parties were pro Indonesia and several TV stations were pro Indonesia owned by billionaire personal friends of the Indonesian merkins , what would you expect our PM to do ? Put up with pro Indonesia propaganda spewing from the merkins because democracy or f**k them off ? Is it authoritarian or is it stern nationalism implemented whilst you are at war ?

Confused High Quality GIF
 

strider

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I think its pretty silly to draw any comparison with something australian .... we have a very distinct barrier to any neighbour and almost zero modern history of conflict across our borders .... europe is largely imaginary lines drawn on a map cos some influential people decided thats where the line is at some point in time. People who live on one side of a line arent hugely different to those on the other side. Living there is far different to anything we know of.
 

strider

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Heres a hypothetical ..... why do we take such large offense to China moving in on Pacific islands and PNG?.... they are putting money into those nations that can help them yeah? .... those nations should be able to take advantage of what works for them right now?

We think China is bad right? Concerned they might setup military bases, missiles and what not yeah? Yanks said they would take action if this shit happened.

Yet russia shouldnt have similar concerns about nato lobbing into their next door neighbour?
 

Gronk

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I think its pretty silly to draw any comparison with something australian .... we have a very distinct barrier to any neighbour and almost zero modern history of conflict across our borders .... europe is largely imaginary lines drawn on a map cos some influential people decided thats where the line is at some point in time. People who live on one side of a line arent hugely different to those on the other side. Living there is far different to anything we know of.
I think you need to reconsider my analogy and answer it not through the AU-Indo lense but through the lense of bully country invading a smaller neighbour. Nothing is straightforward and not all decisions when you are at war end up to be correct or justified, however what do you really expect Zelensky to do now that he has found himself in charge in the next chapter of pissed off Russia post soviet union collapse ?
 

Gronk

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Yet russia shouldnt have similar concerns about nato lobbing into their next door neighbour?
Ukraine are not members of Nato. Nato members (including non Nato AU) have supplied the Ukraine defence forces with assets SINCE they were invaded.
 

Avenger

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Heres a hypothetical ..... why do we take such large offense to China moving in on Pacific islands and PNG?.... they are putting money into those nations that can help them yeah? .... those nations should be able to take advantage of what works for them right now?

We think China is bad right? Concerned they might setup military bases, missiles and what not yeah? Yanks said they would take action if this shit happened.

Yet russia shouldnt have similar concerns about nato lobbing into their next door neighbour?
Because the Americans decide who the bad guys are. Haven’t you been watching the Rambo franchise ?
 

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