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OT: Current Affairs and Politics

The Silverdale Phantom

The Silverdale Phantom

Coach
Messages
17,348
Gronk said:
OK I think you’re going to piss some ancient greeks off.

www.history.com

Ancient Greek Democracy ‑ Athenian, Definition, Modern | HISTORY

Democracy in ancient Greece, introduced by the Athenian leader Cleisthenes, established voting rights for citizens, a supervising council and a jury system.
www.history.com www.history.com
Click to expand...
A lot of countries claim to be democracies but you need a criterion.

Universal suffrage?
Age restrictions?
Types of jurisdictions?
What about the unrepresentative swill of senate?

Parties corrupt the decision making process especially when pollies are bound.

Is it a better life being rich and powerful in a one party state or a poor person in the US?

As soon as we elect someone, we have to put up with their party dictating to them. Using our enfranchisement against us if they feel like it.

The tech is available now, each citizen could vote on every single question asked in parliament. We could even propose questions. No government is in a rush to do that.

What would be so wrong if the constitution allowed for 30,000 signatories to enable a matter to be put to a referendum?

I just think we need to be careful promoting democracy when it’s not defined.

Some countries would have just introduced the voice and have been done with it. It’s not going to touch any rights and entitlements, we all know that.

And of course, the constitution only means what the high court says it means.

That’s not an elected body anyway.

We don’t even have a bill of rights in this country. We copied the US system to a point and we left out very important things.

So I think we can all define what we think is democratic and what isn’t. A lot of countries do.

And democracy, well Hitler was voted in and that didn’t end well!

I think China calls itself a democracy doesn’t it?

Anyway, I’m running with that. Messy and clunky as it is.

Im in the city waiting to collect revellers at the Sydney opera house. I will try to get you a photo when I park illegally and pick them up.
 
Last edited:
Gronk

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
77,871
The Silverdale Phantom said:
A lot of countries claim to be democracies but you need a criterion.

Universal suffrage?
Age restrictions?
Types of jurisdictions?
What about the unrepresentative swill of senate?

Parties corrupt the decision making process especially when pollies are bound.

Is it a better life being rich and powerful in a one party state or a poor person in the US?

As soon as we elect someone, we have to put up with their party dictating to them. Using our enfranchisement against us if they feel like it.

The tech is available now, each citizen could vote on every single question asked in parliament. We could even propose questions. No government is in a rush to do that.

What would be so wrong if the constitution allowed for 30,000 signatories to enable a matter to be put to a referendum?

I just think we need to be careful promoting democracy when it’s not defined.

Some countries would have just introduced the voice and have been done with it. It’s not going to touch any rights and entitlements, we all know that.

And of course, the constitution only means what the high court says it means.

That’s not an elected body anyway.

We don’t even have a bill of rights in this country. We copied the US system to a point and we left out very important things.

So I think we can all define what we think is democratic and what isn’t. A lot of countries do.

And democracy, well Hitler was voted in and that didn’t end well!

I think China calls itself a democracy doesn’t it?

Anyway, I’m running with that. Messy and clunky as it is.

Im in the city waiting to collect revellers at the Sydney opera house. I will try to get you a photo when I park illegally and pick them up.
Click to expand...
Well if we circle back, I said we have a functioning democracy and you said not really.

Firstly, what happens in other countries can be set aside. Cos that’s off topic.

We have three tier level of governments and independent judiciary which provide checks and balances. The separation of powers between the legislative, executive and judicial branches is very important in the Westminster system and (mostly) avoids stupid situations like we see in the USA where branch stacking of the judiciary can actually lead to abuse of power with religious bias and political partisan court decisions. Thankfully we are also very focused and the separation between church and state.

Australia does not have a single, comprehensive document referred to as a “Bill of Rights” like the United States does with its Bill of Rights in the Constitution. Instead, Australia relies on a combination of legal and constitutional protections, as well as international agreements and conventions, to safeguard the rights and freedoms of its citizens. So do we need one ? Or FFS could we, ever, achieve one ? We can’t even agree to acknowledge first nations people in our constitution. It’s pretty clear that one flavour of political party intends to deflect and obstruct in perpetuity on that topic. Imagine trying to get them to agree on the 10 Commandments. 😂
 
The Silverdale Phantom

The Silverdale Phantom

Coach
Messages
17,348
Gronk said:
Well if we circle back, I said we have a functioning democracy and you said not really.

Firstly, what happens in other countries can be set aside. Cos that’s off topic.

We have three tier level of governments and independent judiciary which provide checks and balances. The separation of powers between the legislative, executive and judicial branches is very important in the Westminster system and (mostly) avoids stupid situations like we see in the USA where branch stacking of the judiciary can actually lead to abuse of power with religious bias and political partisan court decisions. Thankfully we are also very focused and the separation between church and state.

Australia does not have a single, comprehensive document referred to as a “Bill of Rights” like the United States does with its Bill of Rights in the Constitution. Instead, Australia relies on a combination of legal and constitutional protections, as well as international agreements and conventions, to safeguard the rights and freedoms of its citizens. So do we need one ? Or FFS could we, ever, achieve one ? We can’t even agree to acknowledge first nations people in our constitution. It’s pretty clear that one flavour of political party intends to deflect and obstruct in perpetuity on that topic. Imagine trying to get them to agree on
Click to expand...

Does it “function” I should have focused on that term.

It depends where you are in the scheme.

It functions for the wealthy but not the poor.
 
Gronk

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
77,871
The Silverdale Phantom said:
Does it “function” I should have focused on that term.

It depends where you are in the scheme.

It functions for the wealthy but not the poor.
Click to expand...
Should a pure model of democracy be concerned about the socioeconomic position of the constituents ? I would have thought that it's up to the constituents to vote in merkins who can make life better for them.

Do you seek a socialist democracy where wealth is shared more equitably ? Shhh you'll wake @TheRam from his sleep.

www.teenvogue.com

Democratic Socialism, Explained

We break down the details.
www.teenvogue.com www.teenvogue.com

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