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Peter Beatte NRL 360 - expansion

Perth Red

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66,115
Souths would be the best supported club in WA, I doubt there is more than 3k-4K “fans” here at best based on my experiences at Perth nrl games. You overstate the latent national. fanbase of Sydney clubs significantly one feels. There is no empirical evidence it is very big,
 

Perth Red

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Messages
66,115
I was a member and am not due to the draw not being user friendly for attending games. Yet I still follow my team (Easts) and buy items like beach towels, watches, linen , number plates etc. That's one example.

Why wouldnt you be a non ticketed or two game ticketed member? Where’s your commitment?
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
Souths would be the best supported club in WA, I doubt there is more than 3k-4K “fans” here at best based on my experiences at Perth nrl games. You overstate the latent national. fanbase of Sydney clubs significantly one feels. There is no empirical evidence it is very big,

TV audiences suggest otherwise! But I tend to not denigrate the code!? So I'd say I'm uphill paddling on this forum with this calibre of comment! A potent example is the one of South Sydney. This club was down and out for decades. The team performed poorly however when unfairly kicked out courtesy of a flawed Superleague deal the 'latent' fan base came out. Not sure if you are aware but an estimated 100000 walked down Sydney's streets to the town hall to protest at this club being kicked out. Yes. You can state "Where were they before?But that is an example of the latent support these Sydney based clubs have around Australia. You doubt this. Many of us know it exists. It's a cultural thing to do with our footy that we love and enjoy on so.many ways. Getting pushed around doesn't bode well for the casual Aussie sports fan. So when push comes to shove, the latent fan 'shields arms' so to speak.
 
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Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
Why wouldnt you be a non ticketed or two game ticketed member? Where’s your commitment?

My commitment is relevant to the way I can support. I definitely won't be pressured into a membership when it's not suitable to my preferences. However I'm still a fan and many others are too. But you choose to ignore this type of supporter? That's you. Not fans in general. We are still supporters . Just not your type of supporter! Doesn't suit you ? Well it suits plenty!
 

Perth Red

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Messages
66,115
TV audiences suggest otherwise! But I tend to not denigrate the code!? So Is say I'm uphill paddling on this forum with this calibre of comment!

No,they don’t, if anything they totally prove the rl fanbase isnt that huge per club.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
66,115
My commitment is relevant to the way I can support. I definitely won't be pressured into a membership when it's not suitable to my preferences. However I'm still a fan and many others are too. But you choose to ignore this type of supporter? That's you. Not fans in general. We are still supporters . Just not your type of supporter! Doesn't suit you ? Well it suits plenty!

Why isnt it suitable? Is the $70 one game membership too expensive? Fair enough if it is but you can get it for $6.99 a month which I would have thought would be affordable for any real fan? What makes you a fan if your not a member, don’t attend games, don’t buy merch and occasionally watch on tv? I’m guessing it’s people like you that create the results of the Roy Morgan BS fan numbers.
 

Stallion

First Grade
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7,467
Why isnt it suitable? Is the $70 one game membership too expensive? Fair enough if it is but you can get it for $6.99 a month which I would have thought would be affordable for any real fan? What makes you a fan if your not a member, don’t attend games, don’t buy merch and occasionally watch on tv? I’m guessing it’s people like you that create the results of the Roy Morgan BS fan numbers.

No. People like me have a passion for their team and support it the way that suits them. Not some off the mark package deal. Perhaps if the package has what I like I will go back but not so far anyway.
Have you paid for a licence plate showing your teams name? I HAVE. And have bought and will continue to.buy at my behest other items to support the club in my way. I may not like the package being offered !? That's my call . I'm still a fan though!
 
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tri_colours

Juniors
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1,828
Most of these clubs have got less than 20k members. We are hardly talking Manchester utd level of interest stallion! If only half of those bears fansin Newcastle eventually became knights fans, and their kids now, that is a great result for the health of the knights. Too much dilution of fanbase means everyone goes thirsty.
No,they don’t, if anything they totally prove the rl fanbase isnt that huge per club.

I keep an eye on the Ratings and along with brand name and finances Sydney's are among the best . The Networks the sponsors and most other big business things prefer the Sydney market, i also notice the NSW government recently pumped $1.6 B (or whatever the figure was) into the Sydney market. Not regional NSW.

Don't get me wrong, Id like to see expansion as much as the next bloke. But I cant for the life of me understand this hair-brain theory that expansion to Perth or Brisbane or wereever means reducing our advantage in Sydney
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
I keep an eye on the Ratings and along with brand name and finances Sydney's are among the best . The Networks the sponsors and most other big business things prefer the Sydney market, i also notice the NSW government recently pumped $1.6 B (or whatever the figure was) into the Sydney market. Not regional NSW.

Don't get me wrong, Id like to see expansion as much as the next bloke. But I cant for the life of me understand this hair-brain theory that expansion to Perth or Brisbane or wereever means reducing our advantage in Sydney

Alleluliah! Well put tri-colours. The negativity involved in what should be a common sense adding of clubs to the NRL has been amazingly frustrating for many of us on this forum. We wholeheartedly encourage more clubs but not at the expense of the very widely supported and well known Sydney clubs. So as soon as the "dilution talk' starts ofcourse it causes umbrage to established club fans. This in effect creates a negative regard for expansion clubs. However if the discourse was more about adding to the NRL instead of at the same time weakening it then more proactive support by the rugby league community for more clubs would be realised. Taking away a club is just not on nor right!
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
I keep an eye on the Ratings and along with brand name and finances Sydney's are among the best . The Networks the sponsors and most other big business things prefer the Sydney market, i also notice the NSW government recently pumped $1.6 B (or whatever the figure was) into the Sydney market. Not regional NSW.

Don't get me wrong, Id like to see expansion as much as the next bloke. But I cant for the life of me understand this hair-brain theory that expansion to Perth or Brisbane or wereever means reducing our advantage

Couldn't agree more! Absolute common sense and prudent business thinking. Great comment!
 
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Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
I keep an eye on the Ratings and along with brand name and finances Sydney's are among the best . The Networks the sponsors and most other big business things prefer the Sydney market, i also notice the NSW government recently pumped $1.6 B (or whatever the figure was) into the Sydney market. Not regional NSW.

Don't get me wrong, Id like to see expansion as much as the next bloke. But I cant for the life of me understand this hair-brain theory that expansion to Perth or Brisbane or wereever means reducing the advantage


Absolutely spot on. Deserves another rap!
 
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Stormwarrior82

Juniors
Messages
1,036
I keep an eye on the Ratings and along with brand name and finances Sydney's are among the best . The Networks the sponsors and most other big business things prefer the Sydney market, i also notice the NSW government recently pumped $1.6 B (or whatever the figure was) into the Sydney market. Not regional NSW.

Don't get me wrong, Id like to see expansion as much as the next bloke. But I cant for the life of me understand this hair-brain theory that expansion to Perth or Brisbane or wereever means reducing our advantage in Sydney

Most of us keep a eye on ratings and finances of clubs as well. Your first sentence is somewhat true but what you fail to say also is that some Sydney clubs are also home to the worst performing clubs with sponsors and brand names. Yes Sydney has the big end of town but that is divided amongst 9/10 nrl teams, 2 afl teams, 2 soccer teams, 1 cricket and union team and that’s just men’s teams.

What do you propose if a Sydney team goes under/bankrupt in the next 5 yrs?
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,839
The fact fly directly in the face of what your saying

None of the four new clubs invited into the competition had even played a game . So how exactly were they in financial trouble
They were admitted into the comp in 91/92 (I don't remember the exact year) and with the exception of the Crushers (which is more complex can be addressed at another time) none of them were really in a position to start a club as all of them had underestimated the costs involved in starting a club (just like the Giants and Knights before them), but the NSWRL/ARL took their license fees and let them in anyway, and they proceeded to blow though their starting capital at a rate of knots until they realised 'shit we're going to run out of money before we can even get the business off the ground'.

Why did the NSWRL allow clubs that were certain to fail into the comp? Who really knows, if I had to speculate they probably wanted to keep up the image of progress, they also had other bids that were viable but letting them into the comp by themselves would have hurt the integrity of the competition, they probably also figured that they could do what they did with the GC club and just help organise the sale of the clubs/licenses onto new owners every time a club went under until something stuck, but again who really knows...
The cap worked so clubs couldn’t spent more than they earnt. Maybe not the ideal situation but it stopped clubs from going broke (with the exception of clubs that cheated the cap)
And?

The cap has never worked to stop clubs over spending, when their spend on the squad was (theoretically) capped they just started cheating the cap and moved the extra left over funds into other areas like facilities, coaching, and equipment and started overspending there...
It was part of Murdoch's strategy to send player payments and other costs to levels the NRL and its clubs could not compete with.
Yes News flushed the clubs aligned with them with capital, it wasn't solely for the purpose of ensuring that their clubs had a competitive advantage over the competition, but that is neither here nor there, and I don't see how that is relevant...
Canberra must of been slow learners. After cheating the cap the first time – only to be helped out by the ARL - They were then well on the way to doing the same thing again.
Mate I wasn't joking or being facetious when I said that they literally couldn't afford to cheat the cap even if they wanted to until the mid 2000s...

After getting 'caught' the first time (you know the time when they were 'caught' doing what half the comp was doing and it was agreed by all involved that it was just a misunderstanding of the brand new rules) they were "helped out" so much by the ARL that the club was basically bankrupt and insolvent, all the players had to take large pay cuts (the ones who didn't have to leave that is), and all of them (literally) had to panhandle on the street to help raise the funds from public donations to keep the clubs head above water...

Even with the incoming News money in 95 the club was f**ked for years to come. They were undoubtedly the club most harshly punished for cheating the cap in the comps history...
NB Uni was never cut . Only a small point but one you need to be aware of.
Uni were definitely pressured to pull out of the NSWRL, and not just by the university and RU...
And any club placement/movent that occurred in the early years of Rugby League is and was designed at making our base/ very fabric of our game stronger. So when opportunities, like the ones currently come round. We are in the best possible position to take advantage.
Ohhh, so it's ok to adapt to new circumstances back when it's Glebe on the chopping block, but not when it might be your club on the chopping block... And bugger attempting to "make the base and very fabric of the game stronger" for future generations, your club (I assume the Roosters) are more important...
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
It seems no matter how much common sense and respect comes through for established clubs the negativity does get a run. Has anyone contemplated that the Sydney market would be strengthened with the readmission of The Bears on the Central Coast? Now that would capture and consolidate this massive population base of metropolitan Sydney (especially northern Sydney) and engage the Central Coast. But no we get " But what if a club goes under... etc) " Once again negativity rather than positivity seems to be the detractors standpoint for Sydney NRL clubs!? Has anyone thought of the( 100000 plus at least )regained fans from the hibernating Bears audience in northern Sydney and around Australia ? No it's not contemplated. It's all.about whom gets cut or merged! So negative and reckless from certain posters! Mind you plenty of others dissagree with the "whiteant" attitude. But we continue to discourse negatively courtesy of some.
 
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The Great Dane

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7,839
You seem to think that it hurts the market in that particular area only? News for you Great Dane: It hurts the market all over Australia. These clubs in Sydney harness widespread interest and popularity. You think this (fan loyalty)just stays when a clubs identity is gone!? For example: Bears fans live in Newcastle and do not follow the game anywhere near as much as when the Bears were top flight. People travel and move and also follow teams through tv. It's more than just the local area that gets impacted! Pleeease show some common sense!

If you honestly think that losing Sydney clubs (keeping in mind that you are just being hyperbolic and I wouldn't support the loss of any clubs) has more impact on the Perth market then having a Perth team as a result of losing that Sydney club then you are delusional.
 

Stallion

First Grade
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7,467
If you honestly think that losing Sydney clubs (keeping in mind that you are just being hyperbolic and I wouldn't support the loss of any clubs) has more impact on the Perth market then having a Perth team as a result of losing that Sydney club then you are delusional.

You still don't get it. The Sydney based clubs have what I call "longevity credit" Once again add Perth ! No issues there! Just don't "whiteant" the code in Australias largest city as a consequence. It's pretty easy. More teams should translate to more revenue and more interest. The "whiteant" road only offers bitterness and a weakening of the advantage the code still enjoys in Sydney.
 

Stallion

First Grade
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7,467
If you honestly think that losing Sydney clubs (keeping in mind that you are just being hyperbolic and I wouldn't support the loss of any clubs) has more impact on the Perth market then having a Perth team as a result of losing that Sydney club then you are delusional.

If you don't support the loss of Sydney clubs then to anyone that translates into them maintaining their top flight status. Otherwise it's killing them off. No other way to put it. The "smiling assassin at work" is what lower tier status translates to in Australia for a top flight club ousted/merged or whatever. Their identity and status are pivotal in a fan's recognition and adoration for the club. You take that away : they are lost! And rugby league loses out as well !
 
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