Peter Beatte NRL 360 - expansion

[Stallion]

An Origin game often draws 4million. Often a million in Sydney alone. More than half a million in the NSW regionals. All or most would follow an NRL team. As well plenty elsewhere .


You bought it up about TV numbers so yes, i think mentioning Foxtel is a fair point

No they didn’t have memberships back then so its literally amazing how you can arrive at these decisions.


They have spent a lot of money and are very serious . So killing of more Sydney clubs would only help them further.


I never blamed it on just 1 thing. Rather a combination of the above.


I totally agree on expansion. But we should guard against stretching ourselves to thin.

It's not a hard quest is it?! Just add value to the NRL by adding two clubs! At this stage a mixture of consolidation and expansion would be welcomed and easier to do. For example Central Coast Bears and Brisbane (2). A further two expansion clubs provided appropriate development and due diligence occurs. Ideally West Coast Pirates and another club from a deemed target city not in the league. That's twenty clubs in the NRL in ten years time . Would be a positive considering the lack of progress in recent years. It would also give aspiring juniors a glint in the eye!

 

[Stallion]

No, I have suspected you of having multiple accounts which shouldn't bother you if you don't, hardly and insult.

I don't mind your plan, but do you acknowledge that there will be questions around the NRL's ability to fund 20 + teams? Not impossible but the question at least needs to be asked. Where would you propose that the additional funds and talent come from?

Our plans differ but not by that much. May I ask why you feel the need to attack mine with your catch phrases rather than just question and debate the weaknesses you see in it without resorting to nostaliga but actually using facts, stats and data?

The talent pool is not an issue. And when news of additional clubs is known: Guess what happens? More aspiring youngsters aim to play rugbyleague . This was true for myself and I cannot see it doesn't happen nowadays. The additional funds will and should come from increased media coverage and more companies coming along for the NRL ride! After all its a popular and easy sport to watch! It has alot going for it. New clubs should bring new money. The product is great so why not!

 

[Perth Red]

An Origin game often draws 4million. Often a million in Sydney alone. More than half a million in the NSW regionals. All or most would follow an NRL team. As well plenty elsewhere .


You bought it up about TV numbers so yes, i think mentioning Foxtel is a fair point

No they didn’t have memberships back then so its literally amazing how you can arrive at these decisions.


They have spent a lot of money and are very serious . So killing of more Sydney clubs would only help them further.


I never blamed it on just 1 thing. Rather a combination of the above.


I totally agree on expansion. But we should guard against stretching ourselves to thin.

Plenty of people over here in AFL land watch origin, its the only RL they watch such has become the hype around it. There is no evidence that the 1million people in Sydney who watch origin all follow Sydney NRL clubs, and even if by some bizarre statistical anomaly they did that still doesn't equate to Sydney clubs having hundreds of thousand of fans each.My opinion is that most Sydney clubs would have on avg around 20-40k genuine fans (people who follow them by watching on tv religiously, paying to attend, becoming a member or spending every on merch) then probably 50-70k people who calll themselves fans but really have little or no engagement with the club other than watching them if they get to finals or checking the scores in the paper. None of which can be substantiated either way other than by the evidence we do have in regards to merch sales, memberships, tv audiences for club games and attendances

 

[Perth Red]

It's not a hard quest is it?! Just add value to the NRL by adding two clubs! At this stage a mixture of consolidation and expansion would be welcomed and easier to do. For example Central Coast Bears and Brisbane (2). A further two expansion clubs provided appropriate development and due diligence occurs. Ideally West Coast Pirates and another club from a deemed target city not in the league. That's twenty clubs in the NRL in ten years time . Would be a positive considering the lack of progress in recent years. It would also give aspiring juniors a glint in the eye!

Again the issue is the $60million a year needed to do this. Money the NRL claims it doesn't have and cant get. You seem to struggle with the concept that this could actually be true! And if it isn't true why do you think we have now gone through two TV deals without expansion?

 

[Stallion]

Plenty of people over here in AFL land watch origin, its the only RL they watch such has become the hype around it. There is no evidence that the 1million people in Sydney who watch origin all follow Sydney NRL clubs, and even if by some bizarre statistical anomaly they did that still doesn't equate to Sydney clubs having hundreds of thousand of fans each.My opinion is that most Sydney clubs would have on avg around 20-40k genuine fans (people who follow them by watching on tv religiously, paying to attend, becoming a member or spending every on merch) then probably 50-70k people who calll themselves fans but really have little or no engagement with the club other than watching them if they get to finals or checking the scores in the paper. None of which can be substantiated either way other than by the evidence we do have in regards to merch sales, memberships, tv audiences for club games and attendances

You have not factored in the out of Sydney support for the particular Sydney club PR !

 

[Stallion]

Again the issue is the $60million a year needed to do this. Money the NRL claims it doesn't have and cant get. You seem to struggle with the concept that this could actually be true! And if it isn't true why do you think we have now gone through two TV deals without expansion?

Administrative incompetence I suggest has stopped genuine growth. AND you seem to think that new clubs are unable to generate sponsors?

 

[Perth Red]

You have not factored in the out of Sydney support for the particular Sydney club PR !

Because it isnt measurable. It could be a few hundred, it could be a few thousand it is highly unlikely but could be hundreds of thousands. Out of town memberships and tv audiences for the game in other states would suggest its not very big but there is no way of knowing. Having a sense of the interest in NRL in WA Id be surprised if there is more than 10-15k "fans" of Sydney clubs in Perth.

 

[Perth Red]

Administrative incompetence I suggest has stopped genuine growth. AND you seem to think that new clubs are unable to generate sponsors?

Sponsors for the NRL you mean? I think a much stronger national footprint would definitely be more attractive to sponsors but it is very hard to put a value on that and how much of the $60mill a year extra it would cover.

Dont get me wrong I believe extra content does have value and I do relive that the NRL has the money right now (it has a revenue base now that would have been unimaginable in 1995) to expand by two clubs but we have now gone ten years and two massive TV deals without expansion suggesting the NRL doesn't believe it has and they are the decision makers.

 

[Stallion]

Because it isnt measurable. It could be a few hundred, it could be a few thousand it is highly unlikely but could be hundreds of thousands. Out of town memberships and tv audiences for the game in other states would suggest its not very big but there is no way of knowing. Having a sense of the interest in NRL in WA Id be surprised if there is more than 10-15k "fans" of Sydney clubs in Perth.

Right third go champ. These clubs have both generational and widespread support all over Australia . Something you haven't appreciated at as yet.

 

[Perth Red]

Right third go champ. These clubs have both generational and widespread support all over Australia . Something you haven't appreciated at as yet.

But how big is it? You’d need to know that to know how much would be lost, and there isnt anyway of knowing. Because you said so isn’t measurable evidence!

 

[Stallion]

But how big is it? You’d need to know that to know how much would be lost, and there isnt anyway of knowing. Because you said so isn’t measurable evidence!

I'd suggest in my humble way that indicatIve evidence is pretty sound! Over half of Newcastle' s population follows a Sydney club team . It's big champ. You just don't believe it!

 

[Perth Red]

I'd suggest in my humble way that indicatI've evidence is pretty sound! Over half of Newcastle' s population follows a Sydney club team . It's big champ. You just don't believe it!

How do more than 250k people in Newcastle follow Sydney teams, and why aren’t they following the knights?

 

[tri_colours]

Plenty of people over here in AFL land watch origin, its the only RL they watch such has become the hype around it. There is no evidence that the 1million people in Sydney who watch origin all follow Sydney NRL clubs, and even if by some bizarre statistical anomaly they did that still doesn't equate to Sydney clubs having hundreds of thousand of fans each.My opinion is that most Sydney clubs would have on avg around 20-40k genuine fans (people who follow them by watching on tv religiously, paying to attend, becoming a member or spending every on merch) then probably 50-70k people who calll themselves fans but really have little or no engagement with the club other than watching them if they get to finals or checking the scores in the paper. None of which can be substantiated either way other than by the evidence we do have in regards to merch sales, memberships, tv audiences for club games and attendances

Regardless of how you spin this there still going a couple of thousand hardcore/ soft core supporters for each club. Many more than the15k average attendances.

I think NSW and Qld alone make up about 3m. NZ and Pacific Nations Would have quiet a few supporters. Many of the Pac Islanders name there kids after NRL players. So they must have to be pretty hardcore. And if were honest here, Not to many AFL supporters in NSW/Qld would have been league tragics


I didn’t get to a game last year but I consider myself a fan .


I know plenty of people in my area, not to many of those have membership or attend matches that regularly. That doesn’t mean they aren’t league fans. Most of them have been League tragics for 50 years or more .


I think your mistaken, rather I know your mistaken about who qualifies as a league fan !

 

[tri_colours]

Sponsors for the NRL you mean? I think a much stronger national footprint would definitely be more attractive to sponsors but it is very hard to put a value on that and how much of the $60mill a year extra it would cover.

Dont get me wrong I believe extra content does have value and I do relive that the NRL has the money right now (it has a revenue base now that would have been unimaginable in 1995) to expand by two clubs but we have now gone ten years and two massive TV deals without expansion suggesting the NRL doesn't believe it has and they are the decision makers.

11 expansion clubs in under 40 years not a bad expansion rate even if some were bush wacked.

 

[tri_colours]

How do more than 250k people in Newcastle follow Sydney teams, and why aren’t they following the knights?

The knights didn't come into the comp until the late eighties. The people of Newcastle are a pretty passionate about there football and didn't make the change.

 

[MugaB]

The knights didn't come into the comp until the late eighties. The people of Newcastle are a pretty passionate about there football and didn't make the change.

This is true, i have many mates of mine who have moved to Newcastle to get away from the hussle and bussle of sydney, and they are wests, parra and dogs supporters, they still follow their teams even tho, they moved away, thats dedication to your club, and they support the knights too, but as a secondary team, see im a panthers fan, but i lived in north ryde growing up, traditionally tigers area, now i live in parra, but no way would i support them.
There is gang mentality to the sydney teams, and most fans in sydney, will hate half the other teams. And add to that everyone hates manly.
Personally, i loved the bears, like the tigers, dragons and sharks, dont mind the dogs, hate the roosters, parra, and manly, and dont really care for souths, other fans have more hate, so when you think about rivalries in sydney, and then why sydney has 5 million people, but only turn up to games in patches, its because high volume of immigration work/live in sydney, generational supporters of these teams are moving further away from the city, ie newcastle, penrith etc
And most importantly we dont like every club, why would i turn up to a manly vs roosters game?
Or a dogs v souths game at ANZ
I would go to panthers, tigers and maybe sharks games, and i follow rugby league, not like most folks who work in sydney, if compared to brisbane
8.5 teams there probably would get better support in crowds than sydney does

 

[Stallion]

How do more than 250k people in Newcastle follow Sydney teams, and why aren’t they following the knights?

And its not just Newcastle ! It's the Hunter Valley. Newcastle is the main city of this massive populaction that has a penchant and preference to follow NRL clubs be it the Knights or the there clubs,especially the Sydney based clubs.

 

[Stallion]

Derbies aren't built from inner city teams either, or from a long association, they come and go

Melbourne v Manly
Melbourne v Cronulla

The 90's had Brisbane v Canberra

Whereas one of the most passionate derby in the last 50 years, Manly v Wests basically doesn't exist anymore.

I think derbies is something English clubs have and they maintain them, whereas in Australia, I don't think the fans are as obsessed by rivalries. Even Souths v Easts derbies had dull moments in the past with crappy crowds.

It's a flimsy premise to hang an argument upon.

I would suggest that locality based derbies are very attractive for locals. They engender a rivalry that us very much cultural and community based. This does matter when supporting a certain club.
You will be pleased to know that there was plenty of Rugbyleague paraphenalia worn by many on the cruise (mostly 45 year old plus males).Enjoyed some interesting conversations about footy as well and got a good idea on what many are thinking or not thinking.

 

[madunit]

Manly v Melbourne has lasted pretty well.

I don't agree that geography determines rivalries anymore. State of Origin is evidence of that. The world is a smaller place now with planes, trains and automobiles.

 

[Stallion]

Manly v Melbourne has lasted pretty well.

I don't agree that geography determines rivalries anymore. State of Origin is evidence of that. The world is a smaller place now with planes, trains and automobiles.

Maybe the international rugby league should adopt that approach! ?