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Peter V'landys - New NRL/ARLC Chairman

Messages
4,563
Where do you think a third world country like PNG is going to find the capital needed to field a team in the NRL?

About two-thirds of Papuans don't have access to electricity. GDP per capita in PNG is extremely low, with most people living in poverty.

It would be less risky to put a team in Adelaide, although we're decades away from it happening with the way our game is run.

No Sydney team will relocate under the current funding scheme, but it doesn't change the fact some clubs are unable to generate enough revenue to stand on their own feet. Throwing money at them won't make them won't make them viable. People on here laugh at AwFuL for funding the Swans, Lions, Suns and Giants, but they're happy with the ARLC propping up small clubs like the Sharks, Bulldogs, Tigers, Dragons and Sea Eagles. It's a huge double standard.

Bulldogs and Sharks generated just $3.6m and $4m in sponsorship and hospitality last year. Cowboys and Broncos generated $8.9m and $12.7m. Lions and Swans generated $9m and $15m.

The fact that so many Sydney clubs need $5m above the salary cap to stay afloat proves they're failed businesses. Our game will keep propping them up and remain a dying sport.
PNG is the only country where Rugby League is the National Sport so they would come under consideration on that basis.


You have to compare apples with apples though as the Bronco's were the only game in town in Queensland at one stage and later South East Queensland and by all rights should have packed out their ground every home game - which they didn't one has to say

Of course on the above basis they would be generating that income as what competition do they have as far as Rugby League goes in their area of influence.

The Dolphins will put a dent in these figures and If Brisbane had say 4 NRL teams those figures would be further reduced again as there is a finite market of those willing to sponsor sporting teams.

It's not the US or Europe where teams are owned by billionaires/corporations and what not which I suppose is one avenue clubs could go down in the future - private ownership or a Green Bay Packers style of community ownership of the team.

In 2022 EPL teams received 80 million pounds / NFL Teams 321 Million US/MLB 100 Million US from broadcast rights as well

Sharks/Bulldogs/Tigers/Dragons are not small clubs though.

Bulldogs/ Tigers and Dragons have thriving leagues clubs which you haven't taken into account as far as funding the footy operations goes.

Manly Leagues made a 1 plus million profit and the Sharks when their Leagues club is finished will be back on track as well.

Sharks are the only club that own their own ground and I understand will also receive an annual payment related to the $300 million development as well.

If the game is generating x amount then the clubs should get their fair share of this as after all no clubs no game.
 
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Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,637
PNG is the only country where Rugby League is the National Sport so they would come under consideration on that basis.


You have to compare apples with apples though as the Bronco's were the only game in town in Queensland at one stage and later South East Queensland and by all rights should have packed out their ground every home game - which they didn't one has to say

Of course on the above basis they would be generating that income as what competition do they have as far as Rugby League goes in their area of influence.

The Dolphins will put a dent in these figures and If Brisbane had say 4 NRL teams those figures would be further reduced again as there is a finite market of those willing to sponsor sporting teams.

It's not the US or Europe where teams are owned by billionaires/corporations and what not which I suppose is one avenue clubs could go down in the future - private ownership or a Green Bay Packers style of community ownership of the team.

In 2022 EPL teams received 80 million pounds / NFL Teams 321 Million US/MLB 100 Million US from broadcast rights as well

Sharks/Bulldogs/Tigers/Dragons are not small clubs though.

Bulldogs/ Tigers and Dragons have thriving leagues clubs which you haven't taken into account as far as funding the footy operations goes.

Manly Leagues made a 1 plus million profit and the Sharks when their Leagues club is finished will be back on track as well.

Sharks are the only club that own their own ground and I understand will also receive an annual payment related to the $300 million development as well.

If the game is generating x amount then the clubs should get their fair share of this as after all no clubs no game.

That’s great but most of the population live off the land (subsistence farmers) and the average income is not even close to what people here would get on the dole. That’s not even taking into account documented problems with crime and law and order.

Essentially, how could it possibly work?

The only four or five areas that one could possibly see would be an extra team (or two) in New Zealand, Perth and perhaps another Brisbane side and Adelaide down the track.

All the other options are either too small in terms of the market size or essentially require a whole lot of investment or capital that the game doesn’t really have over the long term.
 

I Bleed Maroon

Referee
Messages
26,048
That’s great but most of the population live off the land (subsistence farmers) and the average income is not even close to what people here would get on the dole. That’s not even taking into account documented problems with crime and law and order.

Essentially, how could it possibly work?

The only four or five areas that one could possibly see would be an extra team (or two) in New Zealand, Perth and perhaps another Brisbane side and Adelaide down the track.

All the other options are either too small in terms of the market size or essentially require a whole lot of investment or capital that the game doesn’t really have over the long term.

PNG could work if they play the majority of their home games out of the far North of Australia, so essentially Townsville and Darwin. They can take 4 or 5 games to Port Moresby throughout the season (and obviously home finals if they earn them) with some heavy security but giving the country an entire season of games is just unsustainable.

The biggest issue they're going to run into though is sponsorship and funding. They would basically be leeching off the NRL for their entire existence just to remain afloat.
 

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,637
PNG could work if they play the majority of their home games out of the far North of Australia, so essentially Townsville and Darwin. They can take 4 or 5 games to Port Moresby throughout the season (and obviously home finals if they earn them) with some heavy security but giving the country an entire season of games is just unsustainable.

The biggest issue they're going to run into though is sponsorship and funding. They would basically be leeching off the NRL for their entire existence just to remain afloat.

Firstly, you wouldn’t want them to be playing in Townsville because that is cutting into the Cowboys. Darwin is a maybe.

I think ideally if you are going to have a team representing the Pacific Islands you would be better off basing them in New Zealand for two reasons: bigger Pacific Islander population and secondly it works much better for TV.

In saying that though other options like NZ, Perth, Adelaide and even a third Brisbane side just offers more in terms of financial viability
 
Messages
14,790
PNG is the only country where Rugby League is the National Sport so they would come under consideration on that basis.

PNGRFL should focus on entering teams in the underage QRL competitions to develop NRL talent. That will make the Kumals stronger and potentially become the fourth tier one nation that can generate money at Test level.

You have to compare apples with apples though as the Bronco's were the only game in town in Queensland at one stage and later South East Queensland and by all rights should have packed out their ground every home game - which they didn't one has to say

Their crowds are still twice as big as the NRL average and their money from sponsorship and corporate hospitality dwarfs everyone else.

Of course on the above basis they would be generating that income as what competition do they have as far as Rugby League goes in their area of influence.

The problem for the Broncos is attracting casual fans to a sport that isn't national. The casual viewer is jumping on board the Lions and Swans bandwagon as fumbleball is considered a national sport. NRL is scoffed at by the higher end of town as it is based around nine small Sydney clubs that play at dilapidated venues in front of small crowds while Adelaide and Perth are unrepresented. There's just not enough prestige in attending a "regional" and it won't change until we move away from basing everything around nine small Sydney clubs while genuine markets like Adelaide and Perth are unrepresented.

The Dolphins will put a dent in these figures and If Brisbane had say 4 NRL teams those figures would be further reduced again as there is a finite market of those willing to sponsor sporting teams.

This is not true. The Broncos have not lost any sponsorship and corporate hospitality support for 2023 and was $12.7m for 2021 with the Dolphins bringing in $10m across both fields. Between the two clubs there will be $22m to $23m generated in sponsorship and corporate hospitality for 2023. Dolphins are already generating more from this field than all Sydney clubs. Cowboys aren't far behind at $8.9m. The only Sydney club that can compete with the Cowboys is the Roosters. The Panthers ($7.9m), is about $1m below the Cowboys and much of their success off the field is reliant on them being dominant on it, whereas the Cowboys generate almost as much when they finish 15th on the ladder. Eels ($7.9m) are not far behind the Cowboys but Sharks ($4m) and Bulldogs ($3.6m) are lightyears behind. The underlined text brings up the annual reports of these teams for 2021 when you click on it.

It's not the US or Europe where teams are owned by billionaires/corporations and what not which I suppose is one avenue clubs could go down in the future - private ownership or a Green Bay Packers style of community ownership of the team.

In 2022 EPL teams received 80 million pounds / NFL Teams 321 Million US/MLB 100 Million US from broadcast rights as well

The Broncos are majority owned by News Ltd.
Sharks/Bulldogs/Tigers/Dragons are not small clubs though.

On what metric?

Attendances, membership, sponsorship and corporate hospitality for these clubs is low. The teams in Sydney pulling good numbers in these areas are the Roosters, Panthers, Rabbitohs and Eels. If those four clubs were to become Sydney's sole representatives then there would be a good geographic split between them, with Roosters at SFS, Eels at Parramatta Stadium, Rabbitohs at Stadium Australia and Panthers at PFS. If we're lucky we could get PFS upgraded so that all four of these teams are playing at decent stadia will quality corporate suites. South Sydney could change their name to Sydney Rabbitohs or West Sydney Rabbitohs to cash in on their popularity out west and leave the east and south to the Roosters so they can become a behemoth and overtake the Swans. The game would benefit from having a Roosters club that's as dominant on and off the field as the Broncos in the 90s. As a Cowboys fan I wouldn't be happy losing to them, but if it makes the game stronger then that's a good thing.

Bulldogs/ Tigers and Dragons have thriving leagues clubs which you haven't taken into account as far as funding the footy operations goes.

Manly Leagues made a 1 plus million profit and the Sharks when their Leagues club is finished will be back on track as well.

The fact Sydney's clubs rely heavily on gaming machine revenue proves there's not enough demand for nine professional RL clubs in Sydney. This is not a good business model as pokies are not popular amongst the younger generation. When the boomers are gone the revenue will dry up significantly. We don't know how much longer pokies will be around as there's mounting pressure to phase them out of licenced venues.

Sharks are the only club that own their own ground and I understand will also receive an annual payment related to the $300 million development as well.

If the game is generating x amount then the clubs should get their fair share of this as after all no clubs no game.

The Sharks relinquished their stake in the Woolooware Bay Development in exchange for $39m from Capital Bluestone. It was a necessity as they were in debt at the time and needed fast cash to stay afloat. Thy were given an immediate payment of $9m to cover outstanding debts, salary cap fine and a loss of $3m from their football department in 2019. A further $12m was spent on expanding their Leagues Club. The other $18.5m was put in a fund and ia being distributed to the club at a rate of $1.5m per annum over 12 years. After that they will be back to where they were before the development with Capital Bluestone retaining the benefits of the Woolooware Bay development, as they're now the sole owners of it.

The Daily Telegraph revealed the mammoth agreement, set to be announced shortly, which will see the club paid an immediate $9 million to address all their debts, their salary cap fine and an anticipated $3 million loss in 2019.

Later this year developers Capital Bluestone will also contribute $18 million into a future investments fund which should hand the club an estimated $1.5 million in income per year.

The Sharks will also receive $12 million once work gets underway on the new Leagues Club and shopping centre on their Woolooware Bay site, the money dedicated to the building of the Leagues Club (2021 completion date).

In return, Cronulla have agreed to sell their remaining interest in the Woolooware Bay Town Centre development.


Sharks do own their own ground, but that means they're responsible for maintenance and won't get Gov funding to modernise its facilities. So in reality it's liability as its corporate suites are too dilapidated to attract high end tennants at a premium price. Few people want to pay top dollar to sit in a dump.
 
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Wb1234

Referee
Messages
28,145
PNG could work if they play the majority of their home games out of the far North of Australia, so essentially Townsville and Darwin. They can take 4 or 5 games to Port Moresby throughout the season (and obviously home finals if they earn them) with some heavy security but giving the country an entire season of games is just unsustainable.

The biggest issue they're going to run into though is sponsorship and funding. They would basically be leeching off the NRL for their entire existence just to remain afloat.
Cairns and png

and they would rely less upon the nrl than the giants suns or lions rely upon the afl for their existence
 
Messages
14,790
PNG could work if they play the majority of their home games out of the far North of Australia, so essentially Townsville and Darwin. They can take 4 or 5 games to Port Moresby throughout the season (and obviously home finals if they earn them) with some heavy security but giving the country an entire season of games is just unsustainable.

The biggest issue they're going to run into though is sponsorship and funding. They would basically be leeching off the NRL for their entire existence just to remain afloat.
You're just trying to weaken the Cowboys because you hate them.

There's no way a PNG team would play out of Townsville. There would be no corporate support behind it and the Cowboys wouldn't allow it.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,919
PNG could work if they play the majority of their home games out of the far North of Australia, so essentially Townsville and Darwin. They can take 4 or 5 games to Port Moresby throughout the season (and obviously home finals if they earn them) with some heavy security but giving the country an entire season of games is just unsustainable.

The biggest issue they're going to run into though is sponsorship and funding. They would basically be leeching off the NRL for their entire existence just to remain afloat.
How would that address any of the issues that make PNG unsustainable in the first place?

PNG's problem is that near to 40% of their population live under the poverty line, and most of the rest don't have enough disposable income to be able to afford any of the clubs products at the average price. Their broadcast market is borderline worthless and their corporate base isn't very well developed either. On top of all that they'd have the highest security costs and one of the highest travel budgets in the league as well.

In other words, a PNG side would have the highest costs in the league with the lowest turnover, and would undoubtably run at a significant yearly deficit.

Basing them in Townsville, Cairns, or Darwin, wouldn't have any impact on most of those issues, let alone solve them, and a PNG side won't be sustainable in the long term until most of them are fixed.
 

Smug Panther

First Grade
Messages
7,004
Can’t remember the last time we had a final involving kangaroos overseas and the games ceo wasn’t there. its embarrassing for Australian rugby league

they used the pss poor excuse that they needed to sort the cba out, problem is the bloke they need to sort it out with is in uk! Makes total sense for them not to be there lol
f**k you're a sad pathetic loser
 
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