Peter V'landys - New NRL/ARLC Chairman

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Ratings drops on FTA are being more than made up in ACTUAL numbers on STV and streaming.

Yet Foxtel ain't paying anymore for the 23-28 agreement than they did last time?

You cannot deny that the NRL aren't getting the same sort of increase as AwFuL. You've been arguing for months that AwFuL will be getting about $150m more per annum between 25 and 28.

Your broadcast rights deal is still the most money your league has ever seen.

You know just as well as I know that AwFuL's new deal is far more lucrative than the one V'landys signed, hence the reason the RLPA and clubs are after his head.

Neither of those things is true.

Take away the Magic Round attendance figures which inflate the season average and it's not so rosy for our game. The game drew better attendances in 2005, 2012, 2010 and 2011 without a Magic Round.

Don't take my word for it. Here's the data to back me up.

Rugby League Tables / Attendances

Rugby League Tables - NRL Stats & Tables

afltables.com

Take away Magic Round and the average is 15,291.

The plan to build a stadium has not been cancelled.

Theres no contract between the NRL and NSW gov stipulating it must be built. There's no votes in rebuilding PFS and there's plenty of opposition to anymore money being squandered on another stadium when two have just been built.

Is it really though

Where do you think it came from?

Players didn't take a hit and neither did the clubs. Ch9 and Foxtel paid less over the last three years. Money had to come from some where.

Every league has small clubs.

No league has nine clubs in one metropolitan area that draw such low crowds and make as little money as the Sydney clubs. Cowboys earn more than most Sydney clubs despite representing a regional city of 180.

The only Melbournian AwFuL club that draws as poorly as the Sydney clubs is the North Melbourne Kangaroos. AwFuL have been trying to relocate them for decades.

Did he actually reduce funding to junior rugby league?

Where do you think he found the extra money?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The nrl commission is weak

the way it was founded clubs and state bodies basically control it

they can’t really do what’s absolutely best for the game

an example was when it came to picking the new brisbane club

the best bid was easts tigers but news ltd owned broncos would never allow that

clubs want way too much money than they are entitled too to make up for poor management. Most club ceos aren’t fit for the job

other than our current leadership you can only single out gallop for not being incompetent or just a yes man who do nothing much (Greenberg)

dave smith wanted to copy the afl variable funding model and the idea didn’t see the light of day

the thing about afl is they back their expansion clubs to the hilt if they have too. They don’t die wondering

the titans, storm and warriors receive little help at all from the arlc.

rugby league is a great sport held back by selfishness and insularity

This could be the greatest post in the history of this board.

Do people consider Man U getting the majority of there revenue via TV rights as a "handout"?

Man U are a global brand.

Most of the Sydney clubs draw terrible attendances and lowish television ratings around the country. Look at this year's GF ratings between two Sydney clubs. Worst in the history of he NRL.

It's the Broncos, Storm and Cowboys that are responsible for the strong broadcast revenue. Take these three clubs away and the value of the NRL broadcast rights would dwindle as an entire state worth of fans stop watching.

Removing Cronulla and Manly would have zero impact on the value of the NRL broadcast rights. Replacing them with Adelaide and Perth would improve their value.

Also, I've never had any affinity for the Dolphins, but the abject hatred and negativity that LU has for them combined with the barrage of negative press the Murdoch media gives them, there quickly becoming my second team.

I don't hate the Dolphins. I've talked them up in the past and displayed their logo as my avatar. My problem is they don't represent the one part of Brisbane that is crying out for a team the most. Furthermore, the part of Brisbane that needs a team has Lions and Bullets based in it chipping away at the younger generations for support.

It doesn't help that Dolphins will play just seven games at Lang Park and three at Dolphin Oval. It will deter people who live on the southside from making them their main club.

On what basis where Brisbane Easts the "best bid"?

Based just a few KMs from the CBD on the south side not far from the Lions and have a footprint that spreads into southern Logan with junior affiliate clubs such as the Rochedale Tigers and Easts Springwood Tigers in Logan's north-east and the Flagstone Tigers and Yarrabilba Tigers in the outer southern suburbs.

 

[Wb1234]

The NRL commission is not ideal, its not the same as weak. Vlandys could not exist if this was the case.

My interest in any case is in a strong NRL to counter a strong AFL.



Yes.



Thats incredibly arguable.



no clubs = no money.



I liked Greenberg and I thought he was unfairly dealt with. I said so at the time.



Hell if the richer AFL clubs got their way, the AFL variable funding model would be dead in the water too.



The Titans were literally owned by the NRL for a number of years to keep them afloat - as was Newcastle. The NRL had to directly fund the Storm for a number of years after News left. Ive no idea about the warriors.

But these are the perils of privately owned club operations.



Well yes.

Yeh but the strong afl clubs don’t stop variable funding

the clubs that need it get extra especially the expansion clubs

thetes no logical reason why a club like the roosters who have a billionaire owner and over a hundred million in assets should receive the same grant as the storm or titans

and there were calls to move the titans to Brisbane that’s how insular rugby league is

easts Brisbane were rich like the dolphins (maybe 50 million) but unlike Redcliffe they are based in the cbd

it’s a short distance to Suncorp unlike redcliffe which is over an hour away

easts Brisbane would’ve been a genuine 2nd Brisbane cbd side

we can pretend the dolphins are but the reality will be they are still a redcliffe club

let’s hope channel nine sees them as Brisbane 2 and not another regional side

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

Yeh but the strong afl clubs don’t stop variable funding

the clubs that need it get extra especially the expansion clubs

thetes no logical reason why a club like the roosters who have a billionaire owner and over a hundred million in assets should receive the same grant as the storm or titans

and there were calls to move the titans to Brisbane that’s how insular rugby league is

easts Brisbane were rich like the dolphins (maybe 50 million) but unlike Redcliffe they are based in the cbd

it’s a short distance to Suncorp unlike redcliffe which is over an hour away

easts Brisbane would’ve been a genuine 2nd Brisbane cbd side

we can pretend the dolphins are but the reality will be they are still a redcliffe club

let’s hope channel nine sees them as Brisbane 2 and not another regional side

Politis doesn’t own the Roosters.

 

[Wb1234]

Politis doesn’t own the Roosters.

Oh no the adversity lol

 

[Perth Red]

So shown up as clueless once again & now you’re going for the I was fishing angle.
so many lols .
your history of hate for RL is well known .

Yeh I really thought tigers had spent $80mill on a gym and cafe, geez youre an idiot.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Where to begin with this horse shit Mug man.

You really are a knuckle dragging moron

You are correct my friend.

 

[Perth Red]

Way too late.



I didnt just say anything about FTA specifically. I did say that TV ratings and streaming are going gangbusters. They have never been this high.



Improving doesnt mean theyve broken records, it means they are getting better. And they are. They may have been higher before. They are now at their highest point in 8 years. Thats getting better.



Still going ok. We know at least 5 clubs set records this year. Another 2 almost certainly did. Some are affected by form issues. However with 3 clubs not reporting figures - including Penrith! - its highly likely that this year would have been a membership record if the NRL reported such things.



Thats it, thats all you needed to say



While true it doesnt change the fact that revenue has grown in a big way, but downers gotta down



they arent handouts. clubs are entitled to funds that are made off their efforts. And I think it was well established that grassroots funding was increased last year. It is possible to do both.



yes you did.



downers gotta down. I mean it bought in an extra hundred million or so - which covers the leagues dolphins costs - so technically not true either.


Given theres no official numbers for much participation data, all we have to go on is anecdotal evidence. And that suggests it is.



crowds arent down. they are at a record high.



Yes. And I can say it as someone who has been observing it from the AFL side for decades. The fact that you cant says...well downers gotta down

For a stats man that is some serious flannel lol

 

[Cheese sandwich]

For a stats man that is some serious flannel lol

Just checking you're ok buddy, that was a severe and prolonged beatdown you were delivered by the chewbacca . The referee could have stopped it or your corner could have thrown the towel in but they were enjoying it too much.

 

[Perth Red]

Do people consider Man U getting the majority of there revenue via TV rights as a "handout"?

Also, I've never had any affinity for the Dolphins, but the abject hatred and negativity that LU has for them combined with the barrage of negative press the Murdoch media gives them, there quickly becoming my second team.

That is incorrect, of $776mill revenue only $283mill of it came from tv contract (2021-22).
For Many nrl clubs the tv grant is going to make up around 60% of income. That in itself isn’t a problem, the problem is the club grants are going up faster than the games revenue. That means cuts elsewhere. I wonder where?

 

[Perth Red]

Just checking you're ok buddy, that was a severe and prolonged beatdown you were delivered by the chewbacca . The referee could have stopped it or your corner could have thrown the towel in but they were enjoying it too much.

shame most of it was nonsense or opinion, like being slapped with a wet tissue, if that’s you’re idea of a beat down I suggest you never get in a real fight!

 

[Cheese sandwich]

shame most of it was nonsense or opinion, like being slapped with a wet tissue, if that’s you’re idea of a beat down I suggest you never get in a real fight!

I have no interest in hearing what you and your wet tissues get up to mate. Just flush them, don't play with them.

 

[Perth Red]

I have no interest in hearing what you and your wet tissues get up to mate. Just flush them, don't play with them.

Thou doth protest too much me thinks

 

[The_Wookie]

For a stats man that is some serious flannel lol

Im sure you and your mate think so. Theres not a stat there that cant be backed up though.

 

[The_Wookie]

shame most of it was nonsense or opinion, like being slapped with a wet tissue, if that’s you’re idea of a beat down I suggest you never get in a real fight!

which part exactly was nonsense?

Ratings are at an all time high. Thats a fact.
Memberships are likely to be at an all time high. Thats pretty educated reasoning.
Revenue is up. Thats a fact.
Crowds are at their highest level in 8 years. Thats a fact.
Crowds for the Storm are their highest ever. Thats a fact.
That Fox paid extra money for the Dolphins entry is a fact.
That clubs generate the money the NRL recieves is a fact.

 

[Storm80]

For a stats man that is some serious flannel lol

That should be the new slogan for NRL in 2023 … “Still doing ok” … f**k me dead. Let’s be mediocre and celebrate our averageness.

Isn’t funny if you want excellence, you get called an AFL stooge. If you settle for mediocrity your a true league fan. I’d have thought any fan celebrating NRL mediocrity was an enemy of the code and anti rugby league. But that’s just not the case with Sydney centric types.

Imagine the euphoria on here if PVL managed to negotiate $500m more than AFL in 2025-27 for media and tv?

And rightly so, I’d be joining you Sydney centric PVL lovers in saying Gil is clueless and all hail the king - PVL - AFL is NRL’s bitch cause NRL got $500m more in tv money.

It would appear beta PVL was ridiculously out of his depth in negotiating media rights. And why?

It’s not his strength. Racing receives about 95% of its turnover from wagering. All their revenue is wagering and hand outs from the government like Point of Consumption Tax distribution and grants for infrastructure upgrades etc.

NRL - it’s key revenue source is TV. Same as nba, nfl, nhl etc.

No other sporting code gets point of consumption tax distribution even though all sport wagering is pooled together by government with a percentage (i think 33%) gifted to racing codes. So the more betting on NRL in NSW, the more tax revenue gets added to the government pool which then ultimately gets gifted to racing.

So for the last 10 years NRL does the hard yards boosting wagering i think it’s growing at something like 35% a year currently, but ultimately racing gets rewarded for it.

You can read all about it here:

Review of the Point of Consumption Tax | NSW Treasury

Explore the Review of the Point of Consumption Tax Final report Consultation paper Discussion paper Fact sheet Explore other projects & initiatives Co

www.treasury.nsw.gov.au

Sporting codes submission

https://www.treasury.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-05/COMPPS%20submission%20NSW%20POCT%20Review%20March%202021.pdf

In 2020-21, $161m in tax was raised. Racing codes in NSW got $52m of it. This despite the fact NRL probably made up roughly $30-50m (or more) in that $161m. So racing ended up with probably $15-20m of money generated by NRL.

Why is racing getting NRL generated money? And why isn’t the NRL going to war with NSW Government over it?

It’s almost as if there’s some kind of conflict of interest that exists between the racing industry, the NSW government who ultimately appoint board members of the racing industry and NRL?? Oh silly me… perhaps there is…

Anyways, back on topic of NRLs failure to tv rights - TV and media rights aren’t even a thing in racing. Cause no one watches it. There is no value for tv in racing. So to my knowledge PVL has never actually negotiated an AFL or NRL media rights deal. Which are all substantially worth more than what racing codes get for tv.

How many tv deal old Gil done now? At least 3 or 4. He was even negotiating them as the AFLs chief operating officer. Basic inexperience has cost rugby league at least $500m under the current NRL administration.

But ah yeah it’s cool, cause in 2023 NRL is “still doing ok”…

 

[The_Wookie]

Yet Foxtel ain't paying anymore for the 23-28 agreement than they did last time?

Are you sure about that? You have confirmation of Fox payments then? And we know that they are at least chipping in almost 100m for the Dolphins.

We know that broadcast revenue has risen from the estimated 380m pa in 2018 to "more than 400m" pa.

You cannot deny that the NRL aren't getting the same sort of increase as AwFuL. You've been arguing for months that AwFuL will be getting about $150m more per annum between 25 and 28.

That doesnt change the fact that the NRL is getting more revenue that it ever has before.

You know just as well as I know that AwFuL's new deal is far more lucrative than the one V'landys signed, hence the reason the RLPA and clubs are after his head.

And I wasnt particularly concerned with comparing it with the AFL when I was listing ways the NRL had grown. But downers gotta down. I got you bro.

Take away the Magic Round attendance figures which inflate the season average and it's not so rosy for our game. The game drew better attendances in 2005, 2012, 2010 and 2011 without a Magic Round.

And I never said otherwise. I did say that they were improving - and given they have Im pretty happy with that.

Don't take my word for it. Here's the data to back me up.

Rugby League Tables / Attendances

Rugby League Tables - NRL Stats & Tables

afltables.com

Take away Magic Round and the average is 15,291.

Yes, AFL Tables has done magic round this way since 2019. Its also up on the 2019 figure and higher than any figures since 2014. Hence....improving.

Theres no contract between the NRL and NSW gov stipulating it must be built. There's no votes in rebuilding PFS and there's plenty of opposition to anymore money being squandered on another stadium when two have just been built.

Its been announced and as of this moment hasnt been cancelled.

Where do you think it came from?

nowhere yet. Its only been proposed.

Players didn't take a hit and neither did the clubs. Ch9 and Foxtel paid less over the last three years. Money had to come from some where.

Sponsorship and game event income is almost certainly higher than it has been since 2019.

No league has nine clubs in one metropolitan area that draw such low crowds and make as little money as the Sydney clubs. Cowboys earn more than most Sydney clubs despite representing a regional city of 180.

So? Good for the Cowboys.

The only Melbournian AwFuL club that draws as poorly as the Sydney clubs is the North Melbourne Kangaroos. AwFuL have been trying to relocate them for decades.

The AFL stopped trying to relocate them in 2007 when the NMFC board said it wasnt going to happen.

Where do you think he found the extra money?

Ive no idea, but i dont toss out bullshit statements without evidence either. Ill wait for the annual report data to come in.

 

[Perth Red]

which part exactly was nonsense?

Ratings are at an all time high. Thats a fact.
Memberships are likely to be at an all time high. Thats pretty educated reasoning.
Revenue is up. Thats a fact.
Crowds are at their highest level in 8 years. Thats a fact.
Crowds for the Storm are their highest ever. Thats a fact.
That Fox paid extra money for the Dolphins entry is a fact.
That clubs generate the money the NRL recieves is a fact.

Weren’t origin and gf ratings lower than avg last couple of years? What’s the overall ratings based on fact, forget-it you can’t answer as you don’t know kayo ratings and guess them

Crowds have been relatively static since the drop off in 2015, they still arent close to that high period. Take out the magic round fudge and they are the same this year as most years since 2016. So no crowds arent up and they aren’t close to record levels.

fox didn’t pay extra money for dolphins. They paid $240mill in 2017 and they’ll pay $240mill in 2023
$402million ($130 ch9, $32sky, $240 fox)

that clubs will get a greater revenue % share than ever before is fact. Why they need it, where it’s coming from, and if it’s good for the game are all more to the point.

memberships have slowed to a crawl since clubs took over and nrl no longer reports the real numbers so again from a data relatability point of view you can not say for fact where it’s at. Why do you think the nrl stopped officially reporting them?

revenue is up, but is falling to an all time record gap behind our competitor.

you have no participation rates for the game in pacific isles
and so you’ve pulled that one out of your opinion

and for all of it the massive Vlandys f**k up that’s going to cost the game hundreds of millions sIts like a big black cloud over the sport and it will pss down on us for years to come. Which you conveniently ignored.

storm sums it up well, some people are just happy with mediocrity.

for someone who spends so much time using data you have been very unreliable on your usage for this glowing appraisal of Vlandys and the nrl state of health.

 

[Perth Red]

That should be the new slogan for NRL in 2023 … “Still doing ok” … f**k me dead. Let’s be mediocre and celebrate our averageness.

Isn’t funny if you want excellence, you get called an AFL stooge. If you settle for mediocrity your a true league fan. I’d have thought any fan celebrating NRL mediocrity was an enemy of the code and anti rugby league. But that’s just not the case with Sydney centric types.

Imagine the euphoria on here if PVL managed to negotiate $500m more than AFL in 2025-27 for media and tv?

And rightly so, I’d be joining you Sydney centric PVL lovers in saying Gil is clueless and all hail the king - PVL - AFL is NRL’s bitch cause NRL got $500m more in tv money.

It would appear beta PVL was ridiculously out of his depth in negotiating media rights. And why?

It’s not his strength. Racing receives about 95% of its turnover from wagering. All their revenue is wagering and hand outs from the government like Point of Consumption Tax distribution and grants for infrastructure upgrades etc.

NRL - it’s key revenue source is TV. Same as nba, nfl, nhl etc.

No other sporting code gets point of consumption tax distribution even though all sport wagering is pooled together by government with a percentage (i think 33%) gifted to racing codes. So the more betting on NRL in NSW, the more tax revenue gets added to the government pool which then ultimately gets gifted to racing.

So for the last 10 years NRL does the hard yards boosting wagering i think it’s growing at something like 35% a year currently, but ultimately racing gets rewarded for it.

You can read all about it here:

Review of the Point of Consumption Tax | NSW Treasury

Explore the Review of the Point of Consumption Tax Final report Consultation paper Discussion paper Fact sheet Explore other projects & initiatives Co

www.treasury.nsw.gov.au

Sporting codes submission

https://www.treasury.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-05/COMPPS%20submission%20NSW%20POCT%20Review%20March%202021.pdf

In 2020-21, $161m in tax was raised. Racing codes in NSW got $52m of it. This despite the fact NRL probably made up roughly $30-50m (or more) in that $161m. So racing ended up with probably $15-20m of money generated by NRL.

Why is racing getting NRL generated money? And why isn’t the NRL going to war with NSW Government over it?

It’s almost as if there’s some kind of conflict of interest that exists between the racing industry, the NSW government who ultimately appoint board members of the racing industry and NRL?? Oh silly me… perhaps there is…

Anyways, back on topic of NRLs failure to tv rights - TV and media rights aren’t even a thing in racing. Cause no one watches it. There is no value for tv in racing. So to my knowledge PVL has never actually negotiated an AFL or NRL media rights deal. Which are all substantially worth more than what racing codes get for tv.

How many tv deal old Gil done now? At least 3 or 4. He was even negotiating them as the AFLs chief operating officer. Basic inexperience has cost rugby league at least $500m under the current NRL administration.

But ah yeah it’s cool, cause in 2023 NRL is “still doing ok”…

Wow didn’t know that, geez it just gets worse! No wonder he’s happy to see nrl betting revenue increase! Nice earner for his real job.

 

[MugaB]

Settle down PVL alt

Ok grotd alt