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Plane Crashes Into World Trade Centre

Messages
4,446
Well Done Steve, you deserve the 700 mark for your contributions to this thread! They keep changing the story all the time bout Bin Laden, next hour he will probably be sighted in Nuw Zuland....lol

Moff.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,629
Its like chasing smoke with OBL...

Last week the British said that if they were the first to capture OBL, they would not hand him over to the yanks. They are repsonding to fears that the Americans will be shooting bin Laden on sight.
If OBL does make it to an international court, there is a remote chance that the USA will have to defend some of its actions.
The poms say they will capture OBL alive.
The yanks say he is wanted 'dead or alive' - imo, this is American for dead.

That much has been clear for some time.

 

newiebabe

Juniors
Messages
9
Gud Evening. What use to the U.S is Mr Bin Laden if he is dead? I really hope they find him soon because time is a precious thing and I want this terrible war to end before we are all too old. I certainly am living life to the fullest. Jesse
emlips.gif
 
Messages
156
M.F.C
My opinion on the matter of treason is, from the position that when these 2 blokes signed up with the Taliban, the Taliban were U.S allies.
Can these blokes be held responsible for the actions of other members of the same army or force?.
Did the U.S in form these blokes that they, the U.S had suddenly (due to circumstances beyond their control) swapped allegiances themselves?
NEWIEBABE
The capture,death or what ever of bin laden is certainly not going to end this war, as th U.S is going to show evidence(whether it be real or fabricated) that Iraq is heavily involved in the whole sordid affair and they are then going to seek retribution.
What concerns me greatly, is,who is going to be the watch dog against the U.S
Brings it all back to the original line,When the is the U.S going to take responsibility for it's own actions on Military and financial sanctions in the middle east that are killing women and children en masse.
Israel is going in hard against Arafat using the might of all the U.S military supplied weaponry.

 
O

ozbash

Guest
A stepson of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein is an aircraft maintenance worker for Air New Zealand and has been subjected to intense official checks since the September 11 terrorist attacks on the United States, it has been reported. Police believe Mohammad Saffi, aged 35, is the son of Samira Shahbandar, who reportedly was Saddam's mistress in the late 1980s and later married him, the Weekend Herald said. It quoted an unnamed biography of Saddam, the London Daily Telegraph and an official of the opposition Iraqi National Congress, based in Washington DC, as saying they were married. Saffi would not discuss his family background with the Herald and Air New Zealand indicated it was no longer investigating his past. The discovery he was working for the airline triggered a high level security alert within police and other government agencies, and he was subjected to an intense, multi-agency examination of his background and the vetting and checks made upon his appointment, the Herald said. Saffi told the paper: "They have the right to ask any time they want. I don't have a problem at all. I do work in a secure area, I do fly with the aeroplanes as well. "I think they went and asked all the people who work in aviation all over the world." The Herald said his mother was a former flight attendant and his father, Nor Aldin Saffi, was a high-ranking official within the government-owned Iraqi Airways. The Iraqi National Congress official told the paper Saddam forced her to divorce her husband and marry him. Saffi was said to have been in New Zealand since at least 1997.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,629
A light aircraft has crashed into a building in the USA.
A fifteen year old student has apparently tried to copy the events of September 11th albeit on a smaller scale.
TV pictures show the plane sticking out the side of the building.
No doubt more details are to come.

 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,629
Well he killed himself doing it... havent heard if its an accident or not yet
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,629
It was in Florida. The 15 yo was a student pilot who didnt respond to radio requests. The airforce went after him but he crashed into the building in Tampa.
Fortunately, no one else was hurt.
Still noconfirmation but it looks like a copy cat thing.

 

Bebeto in Japan

Juniors
Messages
110
When will our politicians ever come to their sences? Even Richard Butler according to this report says the sanctions are failing and he is one ofthe most anti-Saddam people.

Now Iraqi blood is on our hands </HEADLINE><CAPT></CAPT>
<WOF></WOF> <BYLINE>By Brian Toohey</BYLINE> [/I][/B] At last, HMAS Kanimbla has been given a real job after hanging around the Indian Ocean with nothing to do in the war on terrorism. The ship has been shifted to the northern Arabian Gulf to help police sanctions, which have been blamed for the deaths of more than 500,000 Iraqi children. The new job is far more significant than anything Australia has done in the war on terrorism. Instead of the single frigate which Australia previously contributed to the blockade on Iraq, there will now be two frigates on station, plus the Kanimbla. More importantly, an Australian naval officer, Captain Allan Du Toit, will take command of all US, British, Canadian and Australian ships enforcing the sanctions, which have been in place since the 1991 Gulf War. The sanctions face increasing international criticism for failing to hurt Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, but causing terrible misery for the population he is oppressing. Yet the decision for Australia to take a crucial role in the blockade has barely caused a ripple. language=JavaScript>
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,629
Today reports were released that Australian mercenary, David Hicks (more: post #685), has been amongst the first POWs to be flown to the US naval base in Cuba.

David Hicks was captured on about the 12th December in Afghanistan fighting for Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda.

The US defence department have descibed these POWs as being 'the worst.'

Apart from the fact that the US presence in Cuba is an unwelcomed presence, I couldnt help but notice a few other contradictions in the news report.

The POWs are being housed in conditions that are best described as less than rustic. Their captors, the US military have apparently gone out of their way to make life miserable for these prisoners.

The men have been refused visitors and access to NGO assistance. They are being held without any charges being laid.

They are expected to remain incarcerated in this manner for many months or even years.

One the catch cries from the US has been that they are fighting on behalf of the 'civilised world'...that meaning that the enemy are therefore 'uncivilised.'

Surely, the treatment of these POWs is against those principals. Moreover, it is against the Geneva convention and the very freedoms that many allied soldiers died fighting for in past wars.

I'm sure if the circumstances were reversed and these were American soldiers being held in some 'foreign' prisonthat the US people would be hearing all about it and they'd be up in arms!

Interestingly, the US mediahas gonestrangely silent on this latest issue...








 
Messages
2,177
Watching some of the American news this morning I can't help feeling that the attitude they are taking to their prisoners is very strange.
They are intent on demonising these guys completely. In one breath they are crowing about 'defeating them in a war', and in the next breath they are denying these men were ever soldiers and are not entitled to be treated under the Geneva convention (which calls for prisoners of war to be given conditions equal to the conditions enjoyed by enlisted men in the capturing army).
It seems everyone in America is set on revenge and these prisoners will be the targets of that revenge.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,629
Apparently the al Qaeda and Taliban fighters in U.S.custodyare not listed as being POWs but instead they are being classified as being 'unlawful combatants'.
...a new category which means they do not fall under the rules of the Geneva convention. Sounds like crap to me but then again the yanks are quite literally holding the guns to the prisoner's heads and therefore it is the USA that makes up the ground rules.

The buzz word is 'detainees' - this is code for prisoners being held without being charged

The man of the moment, Australian David Hicks has been particularly singled out as being a pretty nasty piece of work. That may be but he still innocent until proven guilty and should be afforded the same protection that any prisoner has a right to.

As naive asit sounds, human rightsremain as a fundamental part of civilised society, at least in theory.

David Hicks and the other prisoners are being housed in small 3m x 4m cells with barred windows and no protection from the elements. The area is infested with mosquitoes. The cells are floodlit all night and have a thin rubber mat ona concrete floor.

The US Secretary of State, has been reported as saying that these men should should be re-classified as Prisoners Of War and there is some suggestion that this has brought extra pressure on Pres Bush to do as much.

In the meantime, Hicks' lawyer in Australia is asking the US to either have his client charged or deported (to Australia). He has asked for assistance from PM Howard but thus far, his requests have been falling on deaf ears.

 
O

ozbash

Guest
and what happens when hicks gets deported back to oz (if that happened).he would be free to go do whatever he pleased.

these detainees should be exterminated. they are alive and that is a blot on the lives of the thousanfds killed in new york and afghanistan. they are a living monument to the taliban.
their lives are worthless,how long will they be captives ?
if the U.S dont kill them, they should be taken back to afghanistan and handed back to the people they (the taliban) were hell bent on executing.

type in "taliban atrocities" in any search engine and you will see the reason for my hatred of these animals......
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,629
Ozbash:
To answer your question...
I think if Hicks was deported to Australia he would become a major media sideshow for a while but he would eventually be made to answer charges for being a mercenary.
Under Australian law, this is illegal and if found guilty they will lock Hicks away for a very long time.
As for the other stuff...
Davis Hicks and the other prisoners in Cuba haven't been charged yet, let alone put on trial.
I still hold theopinion that ifthe allied/coalition forcesare supposed to represent civilised societythen it stands to reason that the same peopleshould prove as much in their actions and actin a civilised manner.
This is a long winded way of saying that two wrongs don't make a right.
 
O

ozbash

Guest
i didnt realise it was illegal to be a mercenary in oz. if thats the case,it probably is here as well..

why should you,as a tax paying (i presume you pay tax !) aussie,support this lowlife?
why not give him an injection when he gets off the plane ?

you probably are right about 2 wrongs not making a right, but these guys have to realise they cant get away with these things,, someone must account.

realism v idealism ???
 
Messages
4,446
What crime did Hicks commit against Australia and the Australian government?? I dont get it, how could he be tried under Australian law if there is nothing to get him with....He has only broken international laws and treaties by fighting with a terrorist group. The 'Taliban' as it is has commited no crimes against Australia itself...

Mofof.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,629
Yeah I do pay taxes Ozbash. A Bureau of Stats report was released a few weeks back which revealed that the current crop of Australians are paying more tax than any other time in Australian history. I'll vouch for that.

But back to the mercenary thing.
There are laws about this sort of thing.. Although they aren't technically called anti-mercenary laws.

If the evidence is there (and I assume it is), then David Hicks can be charged under Australia's anti-incursion laws which forbid any Australian citizen from engaging independantly in armed conflict overseas.
Its a serious Federal offence.
There is more about thisandDavid Hicksan earlier post (#685).

I'm no expert but...if he was charged with mercenary activitythen Australia could tell the USA that he has to be returned to Australia. But the rub is that he hasn't been charged which I assume makes it's tricky for him to be formerly deported or for any extradition orders to be lodged.

As for whats right and wrong in all this, well, I guess thats a matter of opinion. I just think its a bit hypocritical to violate human rights in the name of civility. Sort of like 'fighting for peace' or 'f**king for virginity'.


 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,629
Moffo:
Technically, David Hicks isnt being accused of committing any crime against the Australian Government. And for this reason, he can't be accused of treason. Thiswas something the newspapers were peddling when he was captured.
He hasn't be accused of'treason', he has been accused of violating Australia's'anti-incursion' laws.


 
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ozbash

Guest
is john howard adopting a mercenary stance on this issue?.
i actually support his stance,a lot dont ,but is he acting on instructions from the united states.?
although we have had trouble at refugee centers with these people (some were deported),it hasnt reached this scale

SYDNEY - 15 children at a remote Australian refugee camp have threatened to commit suicide together.
This, as hunger strikes by asylum seekers protesting against Australia's hard line toward illegal immigrants continued for a 13th day.
Refugee lawyer Rob McDonald told the Australian Associated Press on Monday that the unaccompanied children, aged from 12 to 17, at Woomera in the barren desert of south Australia were desperate to get out of the detention center.
"They want to get out of the facility," McDonald said. "These guys feel this is the only thing they can do to get out."
Hunger strikes by mainly Afghan and Middle Eastern asylum seekers have spread to four of Australia's six detention centers since around 200 at Woomera, 295 miles north of Adelaide, began to refuse food and water 13 days ago.
The asylum seekers are protesting at the months if not years it takes to process refugee claims and are demanding they be transferred to a less isolated camp.
Some have tried to hang themselves, others have drunk shampoo, disinfectant or swallowed painkillers. Around 34 at Woomera have sewn their lips shut with a strand of thread.
And an Afghan man was seriously injured at Woomera -- built in a former rocket range in the 40 degree Celsius heat of the red interior -- after throwing himself on a fence made of razor wire.
Refugee lawyers say 370 of Woomera's 900 detainees are now on hunger strike, but the authorities dispute that. They say the hunger strikers have fallen to 181 from 211 two weeks ago.
The disturbances spilled out into the streets on Sunday.
Activists rallied at Sydney's Villawood center, Maribyrnong in Melbourne, and at Port Hedland in Western Australia.
Four demonstrators were arrested outside Port Hedland, including a 12-year-old girl, local media said.
HARD STANCE
The turmoil at the camps has put pressure on conservative Prime Minister John Howard to soften his hard stance.
Around 8,000 illegal immigrants have turned up in Australia over the past two years, a small number compared with other countries. All illegal arrivals have long been locked up.
Australia, a vast island continent of just 19.3 million people, also takes in around 10,000 refugees resettled by the United Nations each year and another 50,000 permanent migrants, mostly from Britain and New Zealand.
But Howard, faced last year with a general election and public resentment at the rising numbers of mainly Muslim boatpeople, decided to crack down even harder.
Since troops stormed a Norwegian freighter last August to stop 433 mainly Afghan asylum seekers it had rescued from landing on Australian shores, warships have intercepted all boatpeople and have taken them to Pacific islands which Canberra pays to house them.
The government has refused to succumb to what it calls moral blackmail by the detention center protesters.
Opposition center-left Labor, which backs mandatory detention and the new uncompromising stand, has however now called on the government to at least remove children from the camps.
"If it's not working, you've got to reassess it and that's what Labor's calling for," Opposition Leader Simon Crean said.
Children's drawings smuggled out of Woomera depict razor wire and guards armed with batons and water cannon, the Sydney Morning Herald reported on Monday.
That was how the children expressed "what they felt," refugee lawyer Paul Boylan told the newspaper.
Bishops urge PM to hear 'cries for help' - Sydney Morning Herald




 
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