Plane Crashes Into World Trade Centre

[Gav-bt]

Unfortunately, us Brits have had the pleasure of Fox News over the past few months with their cynically motivatedAmerica At War let's kick those liberals ad nauseum. We didn't have their coverage prior to September 11th 2001, perhaps it was just full of the usual American domestic news crap.

As for the analogy with the Titanic, that was almost a century ago, Vietnam was before many of you were born.

What have we learnt in the past year? Bugger all!

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

I apologise, the intention was not to sound cruel before. I feel very much for the families involved. Its another example of people being the innocent victims, used as pawns in government wars.

Moffo

 

[Hass]

At the time of the incident 12 months ago I remember the discussion being that perhaps America might learn something from this. That there are people out there whou actually don't like them. That perhaps their policies are not perfect. It seems I gave America more credit than they deserved, for it is very clear they have not learnt.

This is a significant event in Mankind's history and should be marked by ceremonies on its Anniversary. However we have crossed the line from respect and reflection into marketing and exploitation.

Bomber. You were not too harsh on the "9/11" thing. In Australia we say the day first and the month second. And I'll be damned if I'm going to have us subscribing to the American way. In the same way I have lamented the loss of the word "gaol" (replaced by the word "jail") I resent being treated like I am living in the 52nd State of America.

That's my rant out of the way.

Having said that. My thoughts are really circling about the events of last September and I am paying my respects and reflecting on the impact it has had on society. A few posts back I said that it has passed into History. But with war in Iraq imminent the events seem all to current.

Cheers.

 

[Stalin]

There was a fascinating article written by Salman Rushdie that was published in today's SMH.
One really interesting point he made was that if America attack Iraq, Saudi Arabia will cut off diplomatic ties with the US and remove the Army bases from Muslim Holy Land. This of course was exactly what bin Laden wanted.
Coupled with the permanent hysteric state that America has existed in post 11/9 (which has been fuelled by a media more interested in unearthing new buzz sentences than actually reporting facts), bin Laden must be looking up from the fiery pit of hell in which he now resides and thinking about what a great result he got.
As far as what the future holds, I can't see anything but an attack on Iraq.
If that does happen, I hope it turns out to be another Vietnam for them.
If they chalk up another victory in Iraq, they're going to move on from country to country, massacring a few thousand civillians each time and leaving in place a puppet government and a trigger happy military presence in every country they conquer.

 

[Bomber]

Q: What's the difference between George W. Bush and Saddam Hussein?
A: One's a gun-weilding, election-rigging dictator who has weapons of mass destruction. The other one lives in Baghdad.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Well, its about 8 hours out from when this happened last year. Personally, im a bit worried at the moment, got a bit of weird feeling about what is going to happen. I definitely hope im wrong, but yeh....i just dont know.

Fox News have said that there is a high security alert on at the moment (whatever that means). It just makes u think, if something happens, it won't be from the air (in my opinion), i think its more likely to come from the ground. Gassing, biological weapons, who really knows how many terrorists still live in America?? Id say thousands, and every looney (as well as the Al-Qaeda people) will be out today (in America) planning something.

I think we will be lucky to get through this without anything happening. I pray im wrong, and i hope all ppl that believe say a pray at some point today

Cheers,
Moffo

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

In Hot Pursuit
Officials: Iraqi Jets Pursuing Unmanned U.S. Planes Into No-Fly Zones

By John McWethy

<span>W A S H I N G T O N, Sept. 10</span> — For the second time in the last five days, the United States has seen Iraqi fighter jets cross into the southern no-fly zone in hot pursuit of U.S. unmanned Predator surveillance planes, ABCNEWS has learned.

<table cellspacing=3 cellpadding=2 width=475 border=0> <tbody> <tr> <td>
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</td></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor=#efefef> <table cellspacing=0 cellpadding=5 width=146 bgcolor=#efefef border=0> <tbody> <tr> <td bgcolor=#efefef>• A Year Later: American Pride Prevails</td></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor=#efefef>• Entertainers Reflect on Sept. 11</td></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor=#efefef>• Sept. 11 Attacks Undermined Belief in Progress</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></TD></TR> <tr> <td>&lt;! -- begin MoreOnBox --> <table cellspacing=0 cellpadding=5 width=146 align=left bgcolor=#efefef border=0> <tbody> <tr> <td bgcolor=#c6c6c6 colspan=2><span>MORE ON THIS STORY</span></td></tr> <tr> <td align=middle width=16 bgcolor=#efefef height=14>

</td> <td width=130 bgcolor=#efefef height=14><span>FULL COVERAGE</span></td></tr> <tr> <td valign=top align=left width=146 bgcolor=#efefef colspan=2>• Extended Iraq Coverage</td></tr> <tr> <td align=middle width=16 bgcolor=#efefef height=14>

</td> <td width=130 bgcolor=#efefef height=14><span>COMMUNITY</span></td></tr> <tr> <td valign=top align=left width=146 bgcolor=#efefef colspan=2>• Should the U.S. Attack Iraq?</td></tr> <tr> <td align=middle width=16 bgcolor=#efefef height=14>

</td> <td width=130 bgcolor=#efefef height=14><span>RELATED STORIES</span></td></tr> <tr> <td valign=top align=left width=146 bgcolor=#efefef colspan=2>• U.N. Nuke Experts Detect Changes in Iraq</td></tr> <tr> <td valign=top align=left width=146 bgcolor=#efefef colspan=2>• Bush Will Seek Congress' OK Before War</td></tr> <tr> <td valign=top align=left width=146 bgcolor=#efefef colspan=2>• Adding Up the Evidence of a Threat</td></tr> <tr> <td colspan=2></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>Today's activity, sources said, involved two Russian-made MiGs flying 50 miles south of the no-fly zone boundary. The Iraqis wait until U.S. and British "manned" aircraft have cleared the area, then they take the risk and go after the drones, sources said In today's incident, video shot from cameras mounted on the Predator captured the MiGs firing cannons at the plane. In this case, the Predator was untouched and there was no immediate U.S. response. In a similar incident last weekend, coalition forces returned to the zone quickly and took out an Iraqi command bunker. </A><span>A More Nervous Iraq</span> What does this higher level of Iraqi air force activity indicate? A more nervous Iraqi military, officials speculate — possibly a growing need for Iraq to shoot down "something" even if it's not a manned aircraft. And it clearly represents Iraq's slightly higher willingness to take the risk of venturing into the no-fly zone. The United States created no-fly zones in Iraq in 1991, after the Gulf War. U.S. and British fighter jets patrol the southern Iraqi skies to keep Saddam Hussein from targeting minority Shiite Muslims. In the north, the jets are flying to protect Kurds. The U.S. lost a Predator in Iraq last August. Saddam claimed his fighters had shot it down, but that was not confirmed by the Pentagon.

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Moffo

 

[Edwahu]

I really think American foreign policy in the middle east is demonized well beyond anything fair by some journalists.

The US are in Saudi at the absolute request of the Saudis.
The Kingdom wouldnot existif they were not there and its not like the US simply arrived and set up their bases without been asked too. Its a mutually benificial situation forboth parties andthe US wont be been asked to move anytime soon, regardless of what happens with Iraq.

If the US were really the demons they are potrayed to be thenthey would have:
A) Fully backed Iraq(beyondthe war against Iran) to the extent that they had a iron clad alliance.
B) Withdrawn from Saudi Arabia.
C) Let Iraq invade Kuwait and Saudi with their blessing in exchange forunlimitedcheap oil and air bases

Alternatively, if they really wanted to they could have just taken over Saudi lock, stock and barell anytime they wanted.

I cant see a huge problem with any of the US foreign policy in middle east over the past 20 years, with the exception of not pushing to remove Saddam after the gulf war. The backing and training of Afghan rebels v the Russians, the gulf war, their stance inIsrael/Palestine situation (up until recently) are all sound policy which in fact did alot more good then harm. Its easy to be cynical about the reason they took the stances they did but when you consider the alternatives its hard to see what other choices they could make.

 

[legend]

Outstanding post Edwahu. You are right on the money as usual with your thoughts and I tend to think that once the first anniversary is out of the way, the U.S will get their arse into gear and attack Iraq.

Only a Canberra fan would have this much logic.

 

[Willow]

Anyone who promotes war and bases this on the information they receive from politicians who are seeking war, are deluding themselves.

 

[imported_kier]

How is Iraq funding terrorists any different from the US funding guerillas in South America (and toppling elected governments)?

Does this mean any country in the world would be justified in attempting to remove GW Bush by violent methods?

The situation in the Middle East is extremely complicated - and to be honest "dubya" with his moronic over-simplified hunting metaphors is increasingly making me nervous and angry.

Lets not forget the only country ever found guilty of terrorist actions by the UN in the USA........something the US seems to conveniently forget.

 

[legend]

I think the ones deluding themselves are the ones who keep saying America is doing the wrong thing here. My views may be simplified and yes America has made mistakes and will continue to make mistakes, but I challenge all of you to think of how the western world would be without them and be fair dinkum.

War is a means to an end. Simple. It's happened for thousands of years and will continue to do so.

If the U.S were not "interventionalist" with their policies, Australia would now be the largest island of Indonesia and other countries such as Saudi Arabia would be invaded overnight if the U.S sat back and chose to do nothing.

 

[Willow]

The USA have the been the world's agressors for best part of the last 100 years.
They aren't interested in world peace. They the last country who should be dictating to others about weapons of mass destruction, this being the reason why the USA wants to attack Iraq.

The bottom line is the USA are only interested in controlling the world's energy reserves. Invading Iraq is part of this as they threaten Kuwait.

Kuwait, the US Airforce'spetrol station, is a non-democratic US satelite state that serves the USA. By controlling oil in the Middle East, the oils reserves in America will not be depleted.
Its very complicated but in the end, it has nothing to do with fighting for peace.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Ah, bullshit. George Bush symbolises everything that a lot of people hate about America. He is loud, arrogant and simple minded. His blabbling after s11 about 'crushing the opposition' belonged in a movie.

War is a means to an end for people that can't come up with better solutions. The general stupidity of people over the last 5000 years has ensured that. Hopefully, and just hopefully, as people get more intelligent, someone will realise that there is more to life than fighting with people that you don't get along with. Its called conversation, discussion, bargaining, mediation, whatever you like. The day that people accept the differences of others will be the day when war no longer exists.

And Bush is doing nothing to promote this. He just wants to go in there and blow everything up. OK, lets consider this, we blow up all the middle east, flatten it. Or even less, we just blow up Iraq (which is likely to happen). Muslim people will condemn it (along with a myriad of countries), extreme muslim groups will retaliate and blow up American interests. So we go back and blow up another area. And than they do the same. The story goes on. Its been happening with Israel/Palestine for a very long time. What does it solve?? Absolutely nothing.

I dont know what Saddam will do. If America show some goodwill, and that would be a big step for them, who knows how they would respond? Im far from being a hippy, but it may be the only hope for future peace. If America understood the greivances of other people/countries, and not fly off the handle. Honestly lads, if i was the US president at the moment, id show some good faith towards the region and do something that would promote REAL change, not just a token effort. Taking away some trade barriers perhaps would be a good start.

Call me foolish but that is what i would do. Fighting will never get you anywhere, just think about it. Think about consequence.

Moffo

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

They just had a story on channel 9 about the police rugby league final that was on today at Kogarah. One of the special guests was a firefighter who fought amongst the flames on s11.

Anyone see it?? Damn, its amazing to think how many lives were lost on that day. Over 600 firefighters if memory serves, totally amazing. And the deliberate nature of it, waiting until 20mins after the rescuers went in from the first plane hitting the wtc

Moffo

 

[ozbash]

war is enivitable and really, its the only solution they have left.
both sides are agressors and only understand force.
the muslims think allah is directing them and the west are convinced they are triumphing over evil.
basically they have to knock the shit out of each other,till someone wins.the winner rebuilds the loser (conscience ?) and everything is sweet as for 20 yrs (or untill there is an oil embargo)
we been doing it for 10000 years.
why stop now.?

same with famines, just another form of population control..........

 

[Edwahu]

I am only talking about the US policy in the middle east in the past, that most people
claim to be the root of the problem. I am not talking about policy post sept 11.

I am not for a second hoping or pushing for the US to attack Iraq. My Dad lives and works100 meters froma site hit by a scud missle during the GulfWarand he has a US airbase virtually over his back fence, so having things heat up over there is the last thing I want happening. The benifit of having him over there is that I get an idea about what things are really like in "on the ground" in the middle east. He even gets Al Jazzera....

I am not going topretend to knowthe motivation behind US mid-eastpolicy decisionsbut whether they are made with good or evil intent I still think they have generally been the right decisions. If someone can enlighten me with therealistic alternatives then please do.

 

[Gav-bt]

War, like anything within society is only inevitable if you believe that to be the case. If you believe the Boogy Man is gonna get you, then you react accordingly.

Over billions of years we have evolved through many stages, now we are Human's, capable of anything we believe to be achievable. If we want to stay as we have been for the past 20,000 years or so and believe that war and pestilence are par for the course, then we are doomed to make the same mistakes for the next 20,000 years, or until such a time when we at last wake up to our higher selves, open our eyes and fully realise what a blessing this life that we all have is.

Let's all try and stop reacting and begin to take control of ourselves. The better World starts with you!

Right, I'll get off the soapbox.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Now ch9 are showing a remake of what 'supposedly' happened on one of the flights. I mean really, this is sad, it looks like little more then revenue raising. I think people have forgot this is a tragedy, similar to before, when the titanic was mentioned. But hey, i guess people are drawn to controversy

Moffo

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Oh well, i take back some of what i said b4, this is pretty tear jerking

its a bit dramatised, but just to think of all those people who would never see their families or friends again is terible. I couldn't imagine it, would just be terrible. I don't know, how hard it would be to know that u would never see someone that was such a part of your life....ever again

Moffo