Plane Crashes Into World Trade Centre

[Bebeto in Japan]

Albatros.....Regarding the Iraq/Saddam situation, I was unsure of what you are trying to say. Saddam is a ratbag and anyone who denies it is also a ratbag (which I am sure you agree). The sanctions on Iraq are only effecting the innocent civilians in Iraq. The man who caused these problems (Saddam) is unaffected. If the Yanks were really interested in finding a solution, it is Saddam that will be captured and punished, not the ordinary people in the street who just want live normal lives like you and I. Yes, Saddam uses whatever power and wealth available to him to use on weapons of mass destruction, but again, Saddam is the criminal here, not the innocent civilians. Punish the Son Of a Bitch by all means!

I think Saddam, Ariel Sharon, George Bush (father and son) and Bill Clinton have a lot to answer for. It is their actions, their intolerance which has led to this. It annoys me that the Yanks have the audacity to act surprised when it was always coming. They blow up the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade, they favour one side over the other in the Arab/Israeli conflict and allow one side to kill as they please, and not to mention the 2 million Iraqis who have died as a result of the Yanks and their sanctions and airstrikes (including one bombing of a bomb shelter which was very cowardly of the Yanks). All these deaths are to civilians, no different to what happened in New York. As soon as a few Yanks (compared to the amount of people who have suffered as a result of the Yanks) are killed in a callous and dispicable act, the kind which they have inflicted on others, it become big news all over the world.

Morons like BinLaden who manipulate the situation and make this a so called Holy war must not be allowed to and must be captured. There is nothing holy about a war and religion has absolutely NOTHING to do with what has happened here. Religion is used like a sales gimick to suck in uneducated people into thinking they are doing something for religion's sake. There is no religion apart from Satanism that encourages murders and deaths so I wish religion was just kept out of the equation and not always get mentioned.

The Yanks have been able to get away with their own barbariansim and terrorism and unfortunately, innocent law abiding citizens have had to pay the price on both sides. It is a sad time in world history but it was unfortunately always coming.

In Australia, we pride ourselves in being a tolerant nation. There has never been a time like this for racial and religious tolerance. For the sake of world peace, we must take the lead and demonstrate the need for tolerance and understanding. I believe most Australians are fair minded people but the message of tolerance must be preached, not just in Australia, but all over the world.

God Bless EVERYONE

 

[Hass]

<h4>I feel that this song sums up what we have just witnessed over the last 40 odd hours...</h4> <h4><u>Horror Movie (G.Macainsh)</u></h4>
Watch a horror movie right there on my TV
Horror movie right there on my TV
Horror movie right there on my TV
Shockin' me right outa my brain
It's bound to get ya in
Get right under your skin
Hit you right on the chin - oh yeah
It's bound to be a thriller
It's bound to be a chiller
It's bound to be a killer - oh yeah
The planes are a-crashin
The cars are a-smashin
The cops are a-bashin - oh yeah
The kids are a-fightin
The fires are a-lightin
The dogs are a-bitin - oh yeah
You think it's just a movie on silver screen
And they're all actors and fake old scenes
Maybe you don't care who's gonna lose or win
Listen to this and I'll tell you somethin'
It's a horror movie right there on my TV
Horror movie right there on my TV
Horror movie and it's blown a fuse
Horror movie, it's the six-thirty news
The public's waitin
For the killin and the hatin
Switch on the station - oh yeah
They do a lotta sellin
Between the firin and the yellin
And you believe in what they're tellin - oh yeah

 

[Dog]

I feel compelled to speak now.
Yesterday during a computers lesson I logged in here - 87 posts. Now it's the highest grossing post on LWOS.
That is of no matter.

I think two songs sum up what's been happening:

Amazing Grace.
Robert Miles - Dreamland.

They at least provide the emotion, I don't particularly know about anything else.

I wke at 6:57am Wednesday to local radio SeaFM - "News with Traffic First" followed by cries of disbelief etc from the scene.

Despite the shocking nature of this horrific event, I still didn't see the need to can regular programming on all but 'ten.' All CNN, ABC, NBC etc are doing are repeating the scenes, and no matter how touching they are it has become repetitve and needs to be gotten over. I know the world will never get over it but life does go on.

God Bless America, God Bless Australia, God Bless New York, God Bless the Pentagon,

God Bless the World.

Dog

 

[imported_The Albatross]

Bebeto,
I think you are only unsure of what I was saying because you and I clearly have a different viewpoint about the situation in Iraq. Regardless of whether the US or Un is improsing the sanctions I believe that Saddam and Saddam alone is responsible for the sanctions because it is his actions that have led to them being put in place. In any conflict of that magnitude, innocents are hurt, and I don't believe for one minute that the sanctions are not hurting Saddam, although he is clearly not going without a feed himself.

If he had of cooperated with the weapons inspectors and demonstrated a willingness to stop creating weapns of mass destruction, the sanctions may have been lifted, but he chose a different path.

Your view is very different to mine and I have as much difficulty understanding your view as you have of understanding mine. But one thing is for sure, I am as tolerant of you and your view as I am of someone else who may agree with me. I wonder what happens to Iraqi's who express a different view to Saddam.

 

[Willow]

Osama Bin Laden is under house arrest in Afghanistan.
Suspects (about 50) are being detained in the USA and in other countries.
Apparently, the operation has been a year in planning.

The talk of a military response is growing.
The US senate is callingit a 'use of force resolution'... a sanitised of way of saying that the US is about lash out.
I hope the military response doesn't happen but I know it's only a matter of time.

In a worrying development, there have been reports of attacks on the Muslim community in Australia.
It appears that some rednecks are taking the law into their own hands and see this as an opportunity to attack religious centres, Arab newspapers and school children wearing middle eastern clothing.

Why isn't Prime Minister Howard calling for calm?

 

[Dog]

Apparently an Arab chruch in Western Sydney was attacked last night... does that ring a bell for anyone?

 

[Bebeto in Japan]

Albatross........Believe it or not, I actually agree with most of what you said so we don't have view points which are all that different. My main point was that the sanctions, are not doing what they are meant to do. Saddam can eat and drink all he likes, and still has the potential to create instability not only in the region but also a threat to world peace. Therefore I ask, are the sanctions doing anything if Saddam is still doing the things he was doing before? My answer is no. The sanctions have not hurt Saddam, they have only hurt Iraqi civilians. 2 million of them.

As for your last question regarding what would happen if an Iraqi opposes Saddam's ideas, it is instant death. One of my very close friends had a brother who was hung back in 1985 along with 2 of his collegues for supposedly spreading anti-Baath party literature. Apparently, it is more or less illegal for 2 people to walk the streets of Baghdad and talk at the same time because police will suspect they are discussing a military coup. Yes, what I am saying is sick and inhumane but you can get arrested for walking along the footpath with your mate and having to justify what you are talking about. Yes! Freedom of speech and expression does not exist there. Saddam is a ratbag, there is no denying this.

 

[Bebeto in Japan]

Willow....with all due respects, John Howard is not even in Australia to be able to address us. It is a very difficult time and an emotional one and those attacks on the muslim school (I presume you were watching the same SBS program) were unjustified. This whole mess started because one side blames the other for provokation and I hope it does not find its way into Australia. Those rednecks should get a life and educate themselves about what is happening.

BTW, where did you hear about that moron Osama Bin Laden being under house arrest? I had not heard this at all.

 

[imported_feral dragon]

There has never, in the history of the world, been a succesful invasion of Afghanistan.
So if bin laden is guilty, what happens, if theTaliban don't want to hand him over.
Is this going to be another war to revive the flagging U.S. economy?.
Was it an attack, masterminded by the evil in residence, with in the C.I.A to gain more funding, by showing up the inadequecies of home protection?.
Will it ever become a box office best selling movie?

 

[Willow]

Bebeto,
where did you hear about that moron Osama Bin Laden being under house arrest?
I heard it today on ABC radio, JJJ in fact which get all their news from the ABC newsrooms
The immediate reply from Foreign Affairs (Downer) was that they'll believe it when they see it. I think the news has died in the arse. Perhaps suspressed.
If it's true, the Taliban must hand him over if only to avoid an escalation.

As for John Howard being out of the country.. well, he has managed to get plenty of news grabs back over the last day or two and he has an acting PM who can speak for him.
Sorry if this rattles a few here but I have bad feeling that the govt will use the current situation to their advantage.

 

[imported_The Albatross]

OK Bebeto, looks like I misunderstood some of what you were saying.

I also heard that bin Laden was under house arrest onone of the American news channels on Foxtel. It was allegedly stated by the Taliban. I'll believe that when they hand him over.

I also heard that the Taliban (who are supposedly harbouring bin Laden) are unpopular in Afghanistan and that an invasion would have quite a lot of support amongst Afgani's, but it's true that Afghanistan, who have been invaded many times in the past couple of centuries, have repelled everything that's come their way.

 

[Dog]

Howard is on his way home as Clinton is leaving.
They will be the only two planes in and out of US airspace barring US Warplanes and AF1

 

[imported_The Albatross]

I agree with your sentiments Willow. Australia needs leadership and goodwill between Muslims, Christians and any other Australians is very important right now. This is too sensitive an issue to become a political point scoring exercise in the run up to the election.

Having said that, it never ceases to amaze me how people, who come to Australia for a better life and to escape oppressive regimes, still support those same regimes along religious lines.

 

[pepe]

with the events of the past 64 hours unfolding before the worlds eyes and much of the world coming to a halt,the same cannot not be said about the girds babe brigade,they are soldiering on through adversityspreading the word that girds good looks are still the numero uno event in the world,thankgod for legends sport is all i can say!!!

cheers pepe

 

[Willow]

Thanks Albatross.
"...it never ceases to amaze me how people, who come to Australia for a better life and to escape oppressive regimes, still support those same regimes along religious lines..."

I doubt very much that the majority of Australians (including recent Australians) would condone violence. Most people just hate violence.
IMO, this is the case regardless of a person's background.

One further point, if I may.
This attack on the USA, as horrible as it is, has been a long time coming.

 

[Vertigo]

I'll be the first to admit that, I knew very little to nothing about terrorism and the Middle East's involvements in these type of acts, before this unfortunate situation.

In the last couple of days, I've researched as many articles on the Web about these type of matters, and why and/or how people are linking it to recent events in America.

Here is a great article, written in plain and simple to understand english, about Afganistan and the Taliban and their involvement whith one another throughout the years. It's well worth a read.
I believe it's only fair if all those that are interested in recent events were to arm themselves with as much knowledge and information about matters linked directly and/or indirectly to the events which unfolded in the US. It maybe an indirect link at present, but maybe proven to be linked directly in the near future.
http://www.oneworld.org/owe/news/owns/hz11_en.htm
Vertigo.

 

[imported_Reservoir Dog]

Without trying to shoot this thread back up to the top, I just wanted to say that I've learnt more about certain issues and current affairs by reading this thread, than any other means before. People opinions and views on matters, along with the links and pastings that some have kindly posted, has helped me get in touch with things tremendously. It's been a pleasure to read, and I've bookmarked it for future refrence.

Thanks to all here who have helped the rest of us 'uninformed' ones.

Much appreciated.

 

[Willow]

I can't believe what I'm seeing here.
President Bush has a telephone to his ear and is acting in front of a studio camera.
He is reassuring the American public which is all well and good but it is being done for television.
IMO, this is shocking hollywood display.
It's frightening. He is talking of war but keeps dropping his words. He is acting and the recpients on the phone line are also acting.
When asked about Pakistan, he dropped out for some 10 seconds... then fell back on jibberish.
His statement, 'I'm a loving guy' sent a chill down my spine.

This manhas no idea.

 

[legend]

I heard some of the U.S seantors on the tv last night calling for all out war on the villains that perpetrated this act. The U.S people want to unleash the dog which is the U.S military. NATO has invoked the one in all in act and should the U.S decalre war(and only lack of evidence has stopped that) all the 19 countries who make up NATO are in for the kill as well although I think this is more of a gesture to show the unity among the western world.

I also think the U.S will broaden its attacks from what I have heard and systematically try and rid the world of all known terrorist groups to hopefully stem further incidents. I can see where the U.S are coming from but I think they need to tread carefully here but the reality is, who can stop them? The condemantion will only come from the U.N who are a paper tiger anyway. I hate to say I told you so about a couple of things but the U.S people are already very impatient with the U.S govt and are pleading for a swift retaliation and the Australian govt has used the tragic events of this week to further its case against the boat people and I can fully understand their position.

BTW, if there are any military buffs out there, I read the U.S has more military might than the next 15 countries combined, which is mind boggling.

 

[Bebeto in Japan]

Willow....I heard about that as well (youmust be glued to the TV). What is the world coming to? The acting president? I thought only Ronald Reagan was an actor

Reservoir Dog....I think you learned more from here that from any media outlets because the media outlets push one point of view. In here, we have no allegance to any media outlet and we can tell it like it is. We have had several viewpoints shared in here, many of them differing from person to person, but this discussion which is a very emotional one has not flaired up because people in here have tolerance and understanding. I just wish the outside world could be the same, then we would have no wars.