PLEASE NRL DON'T FOLLOW US BRITS WITH THIS.

[Iamback]

Repeat concussions and impacts sustained in sport have been conclusively proven to cause CTE and other similar conditions.

There is no debate about that, and anybody suggesting otherwise is simply ignorant. So the question then becomes what can or should be done about it.

And heavy drinking and drug use doesn't?

What about players boxing in the off season?

There are 2 things players do to harm themselves.

Now weigh that up against the changes the game has made to make it safer. So the game is taking steps to minimise risk

I will use Paul Gallen as an example

Lets say in 20 years he gets CTE.

He is a 300 game NRL player but you can't say it was 100% NRL that caused it.

It may of been boxing, drinking or a combination of all 3. Certainly not any evidence to warrant changing the game for the worse

Again though most things in life come with a risk

 

[The Great Dane]

They claim the RFL didn't protect them. Fozzard himself estimates he suffered somewhere between 20 & 40 concussions whilst playing.

And how exactly were they meant to protect them from a risk that nobody knew existed? It's totally unreasonable to expect an organisation to protect you from a danger that nobody knows exists.

That's like suing a school for negligence after a kid had an allergic reaction to a food that nobody knew they were allergic to.

Maybe Fozzard should sue the NFL, they're the ones that discovered the link between concussion, head impacts, and CTE, then covered it up. They're the ones that were negligent and irresponsible, not the ESL or RFL.

 

[The Great Dane]

And heavy drinking and drug use doesn't?

What about players boxing in the off season?

There are 2 things players do to harm themselves.

Now weigh that up against the changes the game has made to make it safer. So the game is taking steps to minimise risk

I will use Paul Gallen as an example

Lets say in 20 years he gets CTE.

He is a 300 game NRL player but you can't say it was 100% NRL that caused it.

It may of been boxing, drinking or a combination of all 3. Certainly not any evidence to warrant changing the game for the worse

Again though most things in life come with a risk

I'm going to simplify it as much as possible for sake of brevity, but put simply CTE and other similar brain injuries are caused by repeated impacts that cause the brain to bounce off the inside of the skull (i.e. concussions and subconcussive impacts).

BTW, you don't require either contact to the head or a diagnosable concussion (i.e. a concussion with symptoms) for that phenomena to occur. In fact it's pretty conclusively been shown that any heavy contact can cause it. In other words potentially any time a person is tackled no matter how innocuous, and even very light contact to the upper body and head can cause it. Heading the ball in soccer has been proven to cause it for example.

It occurs in many sports that we wouldn't traditionally consider contact sports, admittedly at a much lower rate but still high enough that it's a serious concern, and researchers are as sure as you can be without doing the autopsy that they've even found it in cases where there's been no contact at all. Like in motorsports and bobsleigh for example, where participants aren't getting it just from crashing but from sudden changes in speed, direction, braking, and even just the heavy vibrations.

So no, there's no link between substance abuse and CTE.

The problem you have when studying CTE is that it requires an autopsy to conclusively diagnose and it's symptoms are extremely similar to multiple other condition, like Alzheimer's for example. So we couldn't convulsively diagnose Paul Gallen with CTE unless he's a zombie.

However in saying that, it and other similar conditions prevalence in sportsmen is so high that it'd genuinely be surprising if he didn't have some form brain injury resulting from his participation in contact and combat sports. An NRL player, or any other professional contact sportsman, without some form of brain damage as a result of contact would be a unicorn, and most would have started suffering those conditions long before their professional debut.

There've been multiple studies of pee-wee footballers in the US that have shown that something like (I forget the exact numbers so don't quote me on these) 80% of the ones that played 4 or more years had some form of white matter brain damage (minor brain damage, and a precursor to CTE and other more serious conditions) and somewhere up to 40% likely had some form of grey matter brain damage (that's serious brain damage like CTE)

Here's an article about a recent study (that I haven't read yet) that was the first of it's kind to be able to actually study the brains of 152 deceased athletes that died before their 30th birthday and had their brains donated to science. 63 had CTE, which should put it into perspective of just easy it is to get, and how common it is- https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/11/16/us/cte-youth-football.html

So yeah, this stuff is super prevalent. The reality is that most people whom played contact sport for any significant amount of time would have some form of brain damage as a result, and I'm not too ashamed to admit that I've been displaying symptoms that could be, and more than likely are, CTE or something similar for quite a while now.

I'm yet to see any professional league introduce rules or protocols that will have any significant impact on reducing the chances of it's occurrence either, and frankly all those rules, head bins, even most stand down periods, seem to exist to make the spectator more comfortable and not to actually do anything of substance to prevent players from developing CTE or other forms of brain damage, and frankly I don't see how you could without fundamentally changing the sports to the point that they're no longer recognisable.

 

[Danish]

Repeat concussions and impacts sustained in sport have been conclusively proven to cause CTE and other similar conditions.

There is no debate about that and anybody suggesting otherwise is simply ignorant. So the question then becomes what can or should be done about it.

BTW, it's been proven that heading in soccer, and even lighter contact, can cause brain injuries as well.

What sort of damage does repeatedly getting on the bags and sinking too much piss cause?

League players, like literally everyone else on earth, need to exercise some personal responsibility and accept the risk of their own actions. If they can’t accept that risk they can go carry bricks like they’d be doing without the sport

 

[AlwaysGreen]

I get CTE from reading the Great Dope's nonsense.

 

[_Johnsy]

Sure, but this rule won't.

Seriously, go read some papers on CTE, other brain injuries, how they're caused, and the rate of their occurrence. This rule will do literally nothing to prevent any of it, and no amount of vain moral grandstanding will change that.

BTW, I reckon that there's a good chance that kids could be banned from participating in full contact sports in our life time, and that alone would have massive implications for all contact sports. So the concerns about "then contact is gone altogether" aren't anywhere near as ridiculous as you're trying to make out.

It is, if this claim is true there will be no soccer, AFL, rugby union, lacrosse, gridiron, basketball, ice hockey, jiu jitsu, handball, Gaelic football, hurling, judo, taekwondo, karate, boxing, MMA, wrestling etc I’m sure you see the point I am making. Claiming there will be no contact in sports is laughable. There is exaggeration and there is trying to minimise the risk of serious injury. The reality is we will more than likely end up somewhere in the middle. This isn’t vain moral grandstanding, it’s accepting that the ruling bodies are trying to minimise the risks of serious injury to its participants of all ages. Nothing more, nothing less. I just find it difficult to let IBM’s hysterical, overreactive reaction pass without comment.

 

[Chins get the wins]

The sport will be dead by 2030 unfortunately. On the up side PENRITH probably wins every comp until then

 

[Iamback]

What sort of damage does repeatedly getting on the bags and sinking too much piss cause?

League players, like literally everyone else on earth, need to exercise some personal responsibility and accept the risk of their own actions. If they can’t accept that risk they can go carry bricks like they’d be doing without the sport

He won't answer that part because it doesn't suit his argument.

I am happy for sports as a whole to make themselves safe BUT they can only do so much

 

[AlwaysGreen]

The Great Dope's CTE was caused by bashing his head against his keyboard.

 

[Iamback]

I'm going to simplify it as much as possible for sake of brevity, but put simply CTE and other similar brain injuries are caused by repeated impacts that cause the brain to bounce off the inside of the skull (i.e. concussions and subconcussive impacts).

BTW, you don't require either contact to the head or a diagnosable concussion (i.e. a concussion with symptoms) for that phenomena to occur. In fact it's pretty conclusively been shown that any heavy contact can cause it. In other words potentially any time a person is tackled no matter how innocuous, and even very light contact to the upper body and head can cause it. Heading the ball in soccer has been proven to cause it for example.

It occurs in many sports that we wouldn't traditionally consider contact sports, admittedly at a much lower rate but still high enough that it's a serious concern, and researchers are as sure as you can be without doing

The average age an NFL player lives to is 50 due to the drugs they use.

Again I ask you, That has no part in these issues?

 

[Maximus]

Oh good, we have some overqualified people on this forum who think they know better than the people who actually study CTE.

@Iamback and @Danish you guys could make millions going to the sports and telling them that actually they don't need to waste all that money on safety measures since it's actually drugs and booze that cause CTE.

 

[Dark Corner]

The sport will be dead by 2030 unfortunately. On the up side PENRITH probably wins every comp until then

I hope Peter V'Landys has anothr ace up his sleeve.

 

[Iamback]

Oh good, we have some overqualified people on this forum who think they know better than the people who actually study CTE.

@Iamback and @Danish you guys could make millions going to the sports and telling them that actually they don't need to waste all that money on safety measures since it's actually drugs and booze that cause CTE.

Where did I say that?

So the game isn't safer now then it was in the 80's?

That is before you look at the changes in habits off field

 

[Dark Corner]

The average age an NFL player lives to is 50 due to the drugs they use.

Again I ask you, That has no part in these issues?

 

[Dark Corner]

Where did I say that?

So the game isn't safer now then it was in the 80's?

That is before you look at the changes in habits off field

The game looked mental back in the 1980's...was reading Dean Bell's book and he got a shock with violent motives of Mario Fenech and Souths team back in 1985.

 

[Dark Corner]

Oh good, we have some overqualified people on this forum who think they know better than the people who actually study CTE.

@Iamback and @Danish you guys could make millions going to the sports and telling them that actually they don't need to waste all that money on safety measures since it's actually drugs and booze that cause CTE.

Mike Tyson and Sugar Ray looking good.

 

[Maximus]

Where did I say that?

So the game isn't safer now then it was in the 80's?

That is before you look at the changes in habits off field

Your constant "but, but drugs and booze" would suggest that yes you believe that drugs and booze are the real cause. You really should approach the NRL, NFL, AFL, FIFA etc with this news. They will pay you millions.

 

[Dark Corner]

Your constant "but, but drugs and booze" would suggest that yes you believe that drugs and booze are the real cause. You really should approach the NRL, NFL, AFL, FIFA etc with this news. They will pay you millions.

Just watch Netball then.

 

[Iamback]

Your constant "but, but drugs and booze" would suggest that yes you believe that drugs and booze are the real cause. You really should approach the NRL, NFL, AFL, FIFA etc with this news. They will pay you millions.

So the only people in society getting dementia etc are those who have played sport?

You could bring eskys full of beer into the cricket in those days, So it makes sense that players from that era are struggling too.

We also don't know of the family history of said players.

All I am saying is there are many reasons outside of sport someone may be having issues later in life.

If we listened to experts

We'd have almost no sport
Alcohol would be banned
So too would junk food
Driving too of course

So you need to act within reason, NRL now has regular brain scans for players. So they can see if there is any issues early.

That is the data I would be using for any future rule changes because you can see it in front of you at real time. Players have a diet diary thing too so you see the whole picture not just data from 30 years ago

 

[Perth Red]

So the only people in society getting dementia etc are those who have played sport?

You could bring eskys full of beer into the cricket in those days, So it makes sense that players from that era are struggling too.

We also don't know of the family history of said players.

All I am saying is there are many reasons outside of sport someone may be having issues later in life.

If we listened to experts

We'd have almost no sport
Alcohol would be banned
So too would junk food
Driving too of course

So you need to act within reason, NRL now has regular brain scans for players. So they can see if there is any issues early.

That is the data I would be using for any future rule changes because you can see it in front of you at real time. Players have a diet diary thing too so you see the whole picture not just data from 30 years ago

You do know dementia is a syndrome not a disease dont you? We are talking a very specific type of dementia here with its own clinical classification and Identified cause.

There will be a balance found between reducing the risk as much as possible but keeping the sport enjoyable to play and watch, like it or not that’s where CTE will take us.