PNG's back.

[Wb1234]

It's hard to swallow all of this foreign aid on a PNG-BASED football team when small businesses are struggling to survive because the idiots running the place are driving up the cost of living with dumb green policies and a high tax rate. The forced shut down of small businesses in 2020 and favouritism towards multinationals made things worse. You're right about our politicians and voters being dumb. They're also corrupt. Some times I feel like getting out of this country.

It’s 60 million pa lmao

 

[Wb1234]

Ive never been one to oppose the PNG expansion on the basis of the “ what about the hospitals and clean drinking water over there ?” argument … Aust is the biggest aid provider to PNG already and the amount in question is a drop in the bucket, compared with other proposed govt spending like the $300B on 6 nuclear submarines…. which is really just being done to keep the US happy and pay them some rent money to live under their nuclear umbrella ..

I just ask the question if this new team is in the best interests of the NRL in the long term? I have thought this move was inevitable as soon as PNG requested it … its been doing the rounds of the diplomatic circles for sometime i have heard … apparently this is PNG‘s price for telling China to F off ..and whilst this will hardly be binding to them in the long term …maybe Aust and USA don’t care about the long term and just want to get past the next decade or so when what might happen in Taiwan is likely brought to a head …

However just because I think it might be inevitable doesn’t mean I think it’s a good idea..

I just don’t see what’s in it for NRL… there must be more to it than the money being quoted as the hassle is immense for the NRL …. there is the obvious security risks of having AustralIans based there and probably a couple hundred away fans travelling over there every game…the team and games would also become a high profile terrorist target in a country sharing a porous land border with IndonesIa… its a pain for broadcasters as well…

I think that PNG is decades away from generating meaningful NRL playing numbers like NZ does now…and by then the Govt money will be long spent ..

Unless there are other favours to come we don’t know about..it just doesn’t seem worth it to me when other expansion areas are jumping to get in …with a lot less hassle that might even bring in more money longer term …

1. Player pool expanded to be able to cater for 24 teams

2. promote international rugby league and flow on benefits via World Cup

3. png fans passion will invigorate the nrl

 

[docbrown]

Ive never been one to oppose the PNG expansion on the basis of the “ what about the hospitals and clean drinking water over there ?” argument … Aust is the biggest aid provider to PNG already and the amount in question is a drop in the bucket, compared with other proposed govt spending like the $300B on 6 nuclear submarines…. which is really just being done to keep the US happy and pay them some rent money to live under their nuclear umbrella ..

I just ask the question if this new team is in the best interests of the NRL in the long term? I have thought this move was inevitable as soon as PNG requested it … its been doing the rounds of the diplomatic circles for sometime i have heard … apparently this is PNG‘s price for telling China to F off ..and whilst this will hardly be binding to them in the long term …maybe Aust and USA don’t care about the long term and just want to get past the next decade or so when what might happen in Taiwan is likely brought to a head …

However just because I think it might be inevitable doesn’t mean I think it’s a good idea..

I just don’t see what’s in it for NRL… there must be more to it than the money being quoted as the hassle is immense for the NRL …. there is the obvious security risks of having AustralIans based there and probably a couple hundred away fans travelling over there every game…the team and games would also become a high profile terrorist target in a country sharing a porous land border with IndonesIa… its a pain for broadcasters as well…

I think that PNG is decades away from generating meaningful NRL playing numbers like NZ does now…and by then the Govt money will be long spent ..

Unless there are other favours to come we don’t know about..it just doesn’t seem worth it to me when other expansion areas are jumping to get in …with a lot less hassle that might even bring in more money longer term …

When I was over there doing consultancy work, I was volunteering with a charity group actually installing drinking wells and purification systems. So I laugh when that argument gets tossed around by people who haven't lifted a finger or stepped foot there.

The PNG team idea has been around for a long time. PNG government officials were talking about it when I was over there. That was like 4 or 5 Australian prime ministers ago. So when people pin this squarely on Albo, I also laugh. PNG has wanted this for decades. But now they've got some leverage to make it happen.

I agree that there's easier bid locations and it's a lot of hassle. Whoever said doing good things are easy though? I wouldn't stress too much about terrorism stuff though. I crossed that border into Jayapura in West Papua and that's where those issues are. It's probably a 0.001% chance of a terrorist action in Port Moresby. We've played multiple international in PM without incident.

It will a take a long time to build the pool of NRL quality players from PNG. But the same could be said about Perth. However, unlike Perth the game is everywhere. It's hard for people to fathom but you can't turn your head in PM without someone wearing an NRL or RL kit. Walk 3 streets and you'll see kids passing balls. Think of how into rugby league Queensland gets during Origin and multiply it several times. That's an average day for rugby league in PNG.

I think this Google trends data highlights it:

People in PNG search for 'NRL' on Google at 25 times the volume of Australians. There's about a million locals with internet access thanks to mobile phone increase. If the rest of the country had access, I suspect that ratio would be higher. 50 to 1 potentially.

PNG might be poor. But I'd estimate 8-9 million of them are rugby league fans. There are definitely more rugby league fans in PNG than there are in Australia. There's no real reason that out of that pool of interest that you couldn't eventually end up getting 25-50 players of NRL quality.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

8% of it is going to the NRL so they can bribe other clubs to agree to it. A further 16% is going to build a compound to protect the rich white Australians from the locals. And then we want to tell the PNG govt to allow those rich white people to pay no tax, putting the govt out of pocket by having to pay for all the services, but get no contribution back. But no apparently it's racist to oppose that.

For every three dollars given to PNGRFL/FRL/TRL/SRL, one will be handed to an Australian/New Zealander. That's $150m in total.

The worst part of this is rich NRL clubs will pocket $52m. As a fan who does it tough financially, it makes me wonder why I should continue to financially support two greedy NRL clubs. I'd rather see the $52m go towards junior rugby league clubs in Queensland and NSW that are struggling to survive.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

It’s 60 million pa lmao

Imagine what $60m per annum could do for struggling junior RL clubs in Queensland and NSW?

 

[docbrown]

It's hard to swallow all of this foreign aid on a PNG-BASED football team when small businesses are struggling to survive because the idiots running the place are driving up the cost of living with dumb green policies and a high tax rate. The forced shut down of small businesses in 2020 and favouritism towards multinationals made things worse. You're right about our politicians and voters being dumb. They're also corrupt. Some times I feel like getting out of this country.

There's a handful of countries better than Australia. Most countries in the world are worse. You won the birth lottery by being born here. People from PNG lost that lottery. Small businesses will always struggle to survive. There is really no profit level where small business owners think of themselves as not struggling. Even multi-millionaires in this country think they're middle class. We all think we're owed something.

Again you could take that $60 million per year and give it to Australians instead and it would be about $2.22 each person per year. Congratulations, you can buy a shitty loaf of bread. The truth is this funding doesn't hurt Australians in any way and taking it away from PNG won't really help Australians either.

 

[docbrown]

As a fan who does it tough financially, it makes me wonder why I should continue to financially support two greedy NRL clubs.

What if I told you that none of this has anything to do with where you are at in life financially?

 

[Wb1234]

When I was over there doing consultancy work, I was volunteering with a charity group actually installing drinking wells and purification systems. So I laugh when that argument gets tossed around by people who haven't lifted a finger or stepped foot there.

The PNG team idea has been around for a long time. PNG government officials were talking about it when I was over there. That was like 4 or 5 Australian prime ministers ago. So when people pin this squarely on Albo, I also laugh. PNG has wanted this for decades. But now they've got some leverage to make it happen.

I agree that there's easier bid locations and it's a lot of hassle. Whoever said doing good things are easy though? I wouldn't stress too much about terrorism stuff though. I crossed that border into Jayapura in West Papua and that's where those issues are. It's probably a 0.001% chance of a terrorist action in Port Moresby. We've played multiple international in PM without incident.

It will a take a long time to build the pool of NRL quality players from PNG. But the same could be said about Perth. However, unlike Perth the game is everywhere. It's hard for people to fathom but you can't turn your head in PM without someone wearing an NRL or RL kit. Walk 3 streets and you'll see kids passing balls. Think of how into rugby league Queensland gets during Origin and multiply it several times. That's an average day for rugby league in PNG.

I think this Google trends data highlights it:
View attachment 89008
People in PNG search for 'NRL' on Google at 25 times the volume of Australians. There's about a million locals with internet access thanks to mobile phone increase. If the rest of the country had access, I suspect that ratio would be higher. 50 to 1 potentially.

PNG might be poor. But I'd estimate 8-9 million of them are rugby league fans. There are definitely more rugby league fans in PNG than there are in Australia. There's no real reason that out of that pool of interest that you couldn't eventually end up getting 25-50 players of NRL quality.

Bringing an nrl team will give so many png people joy

their own team in the big league

the crowd atmosphere will be unlike anything at an Aussie league game

 

[Wb1234]

Imagine what $60m per annum could do for struggling junior RL clubs in Queensland and NSW?

Rugby league in nsw and qld is hardly struggling for money is it ?
PNG is more of a heartland than either nsw or qld

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

There's a handful of countries better than Australia. Most countries in the world are worse. You won the birth lottery by being born here. People from PNG lost that lottery. Small businesses will always struggle to survive. There is really no profit level where small business owners think of themselves as not struggling. Even multi-millionaires in this country think they're middle class. We all think we're owed something.

Again you could take that $60 million per year and give it to Australians instead and it would be about $2.22 each person per year. Congratulations, you can buy a shitty loaf of bread. The truth is this funding doesn't hurt Australians in any way and taking it away from PNG won't really help Australians either.

It can be argued that the $600m won't do shit for the Papuans in the villiages who have no access to electricity and survive on subsistence farming. They'll still be living in poverty with no prospect of getting an education or a job.

What if I told you that none of this has anything to do with where you are at in life financially?

The rising cost of living most certainly impacts how much disposable income I have after paying for groceries, petrol, rates and taxes. Our electricity prices have increased exponentially over the last 25 years. Almost everything we use is produced with electricity. Every dollar added to the cost of production is passed down to the consumer.

It's an insult for an NRL club to put its hand out and ask for support from people doing it tough after getting millions of tax payer money from Albo. The least they can do is lower the cost of tickets and merchandise.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Rugby league in nsw and qld is hardly struggling for money is it ?
PNG is more of a heartland than either nsw or qld

There are junior clubs struggling to cover the costs of insurance, playing equipment and lease of the land and facilities they use.

 

[Wb1234]

There are junior clubs struggling to cover the costs of insurance, playing equipment and lease of the land and facilities they use.

How much money do leagues clubs make in nsw and qld? Probably over a billion dollars

 

[docbrown]

It can be argued that the $600m won't do shit for the Papuans in the villiages who have no access to electricity and survive on subsistence farming. They'll still be living in poverty with no prospect of getting an education or a job.


The rising cost of living most certainly impacts how much disposable income I have after paying for groceries, petrol, rates and taxes. Our electricity prices have increased exponentially over the last 25 years. Almost everything we use is produced with electricity. Every dollar added to the cost of production is passed down to the consumer.

It's an insult for an NRL club to put its hand out and ask for support from people doing it tough after getting millions of tax payer money from Albo. The least they can do is lower the cost of tickets and merchandise.

Of course PNG people will still be struggling. No one has ever claimed otherwise. But you'd also oppose helping them further if it costs more money to do it, so why even mention it?

Basically, you just want to keep your $2.22 a year.

 

[Canard]

Calling anyone who dares suggest that PNG is a bad idea, racist or AFL trolls is reductive absolutist bullshit.

And using Google trends(which you seem fixated with) is a terrible metric for a country with basically no internet coverage and limited electricity.

 

[docbrown]

Calling anyone who dares suggest that PNG is a bad idea, racist or AFL trolls is reductive absolutist bullshit.

And using Google trends(which you seem fixated with) is a terrible metric for a country with basically no internet coverage and limited electricity.

Three million+ people in PNG have internet access. That's more than the population of Brisbane. 37% of the population has a mobile phone.

Google is the biggest search engine in the world and their trends reflect broader internet user interest. Only an uninformed or biased person would think otherwise.

Saying that they have basically no internet coverage is racist. I know you want to look down on them as a bunch of primitives who have never seen a computer or mobile phone but the reality is different.

 

[Canard]

Three million+ people in PNG have internet access. That's more than the population of Brisbane. 37% of the population has a mobile phone.

Google is the biggest search engine in the world and their trends reflect broader internet user interest. Only an uninformed or biased person would think otherwise.

Saying that they have basically no internet coverage is racist. I know you want to look down on them as a bunch of primitives who have never seen a computer or mobile phone but the reality is different.

Yes I'm sure they have high speed internet..

You seem to want to put your hands in your ears and ignore the logistical challenges the team will have, the financial burden it will place on the NRL and the effect the lopsided nature of their games will have on the competition.

You're only response seems to be 'You're racist'.

Unlike you, I don't have to pretend that I've been a UN peacekeeper installing water wells in Papua, to have a discussion on PNG.

 

[Colk]

Australia has given money to foreign countries as a form of diplomacy for a long time. Long before the idea of a PNG NRL team. We want our regional neighbours to be more stable and more aligned to our own interests. Most countries do this regardless of their debt levels. If you stop doing this, then you create a void in poorer countries that are more likely to have that funding void filled by another country that might have opposing interests to Australia. In which case, you'll see fewer Australian companies operating in PNG and more from that other opposing power. Be it China, Indonesia or whoever. However, all of this is beyond the scope of a rugby league forum.

Our debt is growing because we've put all our eggs in housing and mining and we don't tax the right groups enough. We're on par with African countries in terms of our economic diversification. We're a stupid country filled with stupid voters run by stupid leaders in a stupid two party system. We are headed to an American styled declining/failing democracy. We only a generation from a Trump of our own, maybe not even that.

Yes PNG has it owns RL comp and team. Hence why the government is using rugby league to shore up the relationship. If PNG was interested in fumbleball then they'd be using that.

Again - the $600 million isn't all going to PNG. It is also going to Fiji, Tonga and Samoa player pathways. And yes, these countries all the time threaten to go to other countries if Australia doesn't fund certain things. And sometimes they do. It all comes down to choices as to where we see value and what we're trying to avoid. If we can grow rugby league, strength connections between PNG & Australia and prevent a Chinese military presence from happening in PNG, then that's achieving multiple objectives. For $60 million a year, that's not that bad.

We are called the ‘lucky’ country (as Spike Milligan once said) for a reason. Massively deluded like the Yanks in believing that some sort of inherent exceptionalism exists.

That’s why you get absolutely ignorant comments like why can’t poor countries be more like us or some sort of other incoherent babble because they have never been to first world countries. Unfortunately life is more about luck (or at least just as much) than hard work. People don’t want to believe that though because it would require a re-framing of their own ego

 

[docbrown]

Yes I'm sure they have high speed internet..

You seem to want to put your hands in your ears and ignore the logistical challenges the team will have, the financial burden it will place on the NRL and the effect the lopsided nature of their games will have on the competition.

You're only response seems to be 'You're racist'.

Unlike you, I don't have to pretend that I've been a UN peacekeeper installing water wells in Papua, to have a discussion on PNG.

Well considering that Australia is ranked 72 out of 179 countries for internet speeds I'm not sure if that's the hill you want to die on. For the record, the media cellular internet speed in PNG is 18.95 Mbps. It's lower than Australia's but there's places in Australia with speeds like that.

I am aware of the logistical challenges the team will have. I've said them multiple times on this forum. But that doesn't take away from the fact that you want to make out like people from PNG are savages who don't know how to use the internet or a mobile phone.

No I'm not a UN peacekeeper but here's a post from 2011 where I spoke about building water wells. The PNG expansion team wasn't even on the radar then. I still support this organisation financially. The different between you and I is that I've actually done things for the people of PNG that have made a direct positive impact on their lives. And you've whined about them on an internet forum.

https://forums.leagueunlimited.com/threads/i-cant-read-topic-titles.367972/post-7111871

 

[Colk]

When I was over there doing consultancy work, I was volunteering with a charity group actually installing drinking wells and purification systems. So I laugh when that argument gets tossed around by people who haven't lifted a finger or stepped foot there.

The PNG team idea has been around for a long time. PNG government officials were talking about it when I was over there. That was like 4 or 5 Australian prime ministers ago. So when people pin this squarely on Albo, I also laugh. PNG has wanted this for decades. But now they've got some leverage to make it happen.

I agree that there's easier bid locations and it's a lot of hassle. Whoever said doing good things are easy though? I wouldn't stress too much about terrorism stuff though. I crossed that border into Jayapura in West Papua and that's where those issues are. It's probably a 0.001% chance of a terrorist action in Port Moresby. We've played multiple international in PM without incident.

It will a take a long time to build the pool of NRL quality players from PNG. But the same could be said about Perth. However, unlike Perth the game is everywhere. It's hard for people to fathom but you can't turn your head in PM without someone wearing an NRL or RL kit. Walk 3 streets and you'll see kids passing balls. Think of how into rugby league Queensland gets during Origin and multiply it several times. That's an average day for rugby league in PNG.

I think this Google trends data highlights it:
View attachment 89008
People in PNG search for 'NRL' on Google at 25 times the volume of Australians. There's about a million locals with internet access thanks to mobile phone increase. If the rest of the country had access, I suspect that ratio would be higher. 50 to 1 potentially.

PNG might be poor. But I'd estimate 8-9 million of them are rugby league fans. There are definitely more rugby league fans in PNG than there are in Australia. There's no real reason that out of that pool of interest that you couldn't eventually end up getting 25-50 players of NRL quality.

The problem against PNG isn’t the money being spent (well it shouldn’t be because foreign aid is foreign aid and an increase in foreign aid is at worst unremarkable and at best socially beneficial) it is the logistics. Essentially it is a can it work argument.

Think of your own experience in PNG and others can reflect on their own in first world countries and then one can ask, how probable is it that this side is going to attract and keep players (sans something like a draft coming in) and secondly what happens when the government funding ceases to exist.

If it works wonderful but the solutions to these questions haven’t been particularly convincing thus far.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Of course PNG people will still be struggling. No one has ever claimed otherwise. But you'd also oppose helping them further if it costs more money to do it, so why even mention it?

Basically, you just want to keep your $2.22 a year.

I think it's f**ken stupid to waste a valuable NRL licence on a team that requires $600m over a decade from the Aus Gov?

What happens when the funding is pulled?

Who will agree to play for this team?

No one who is an advocate for this team can answer these questions.

Here's the big question we need to consider.

What if China comes up with an offer that improves PNG's infrastructure?

Do all the people who are for this idea tell PNG to turn down an offer like that because it doesn't help the game expand in PNG?