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Police harassed me: El Masri

Messages
21,880
CharlieF said:
A police officer may request a person who is requested under this Part to disclose his or her identity to provide proof of his or her identity.

that was not the question. No One is disputing the fact police are allowed to ask for ID when it is relevant.

the question was show us where it says it is illegal not to produce ID when requested.
 
Messages
3,818
Post 198..cleans everything up ..exactly..and if 3 men were sitting on a park bence outside my house..its dark..and there have been a number of breakins recently..id be calling the police to come and check them out an do their job

I really dont think el masri would have been behind all this..i really think the manager would have a lot of push behind this....
 

CharlieF

Juniors
Messages
1,440
herbert henry1908 said:
that was not the question. No One is disputing the fact police are allowed to ask for ID when it is relevant.

the question was show us where it says it is illegal not to produce ID when requested.

I provided the link to the legislation. It say you need to produce ID if requested. You don't put that in if it is not enforcable.
 

gunnamatta bay

Referee
Messages
21,084
Nice try. Where is the section that creates an offence applicable to El Mazri's situation?

Where is the indictment that supports your assertion El Mazri is guilty of some offence?

ie. That on the 11th day of April, 2007, at Regents Park in the State of NSW he did fail to provide a policeman with his identification?

He was well within his rights to refuse to answer any questions or provide his id unless the cops had a reasonable suspicion he did something wrong. If he did do something wrong then why didn't they arrest him in which case he would have no alternative but to be identified.
 

CharlieF

Juniors
Messages
1,440
Game_Breaker said:
Thats taken out of context


You were meant to provide this, since it relates to this part


11 [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Identity may be required to be disclosed[/FONT]
(cf <A href="http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/summarize/inforce/s/1/?xref=RecordType%3DACTTOC%20AND%20Year%3D1900%20AND%20Actno%3D40&nohits=y" target=main>Crimes Act 1900, s 563)
A police officer may request a person whose identity is unknown to the officer to disclose his or her identity if the officer suspects on reasonable grounds that the person may be able to assist in the investigation of an alleged indictable offence because the person was at or near the place where the alleged indictable offence occurred, whether before, when, or soon after it occurred.
Same, Same. Its all there in that link to the NSW legislation. You found it OK.
 

Maroubra Eel

Coach
Messages
19,044
herbert henry1908 said:
that was not the question. No One is disputing the fact police are allowed to ask for ID when it is relevant.

the question was show us where it says it is illegal not to produce ID when requested.
:lol: Good one herbert.
 

CharlieF

Juniors
Messages
1,440
gunnamatta bay said:
Nice try. Where is the section that creates an offence applicable to El Mazri's situation?

Where is the indictment that supports your assertion El Mazri is guilty of some offence?

ie. That on the 11th day of April, 2007, at Regents Park in the State of NSW he did fail to provide a policeman with his identification?

He was well within his rights to refuse to answer any questions or provide his id unless the cops had a reasonable suspicion he did something wrong. If he did do something wrong then why didn't they arrest him in which case he would have no alternative but to be identified.

You asked for a link to the legislation that says it is an offence to not show ID when requested. I provided it.

I am not saying El Masri is guilty of any offence, but to the letter of the law he is if he did not show ID. He eventually showed it, but it is an offence to not provide it.

Can I stay now or do I need to be shipped off to Iran.
 

Maroubra Eel

Coach
Messages
19,044
CharlieF said:
You asked for a link to the legislation that says it is an offence to not show ID when requested. I provided it.

I am not saying El Masri is guilty of any offence, but to the letter of the law he is if he did not show ID. He eventually showed it, but it is an offence to not provide it.

Can I stay now or do I need to be shipped off to Iran.

I'm booking my ticket now CharlieF.
 

gunnamatta bay

Referee
Messages
21,084
It does not make it an offence to decline to provide your identification. It simply says police must have a reasonable cause or suspicion and MAY ask for it. There is no such offence.
 

gunnamatta bay

Referee
Messages
21,084
Maroubra Eel said:
I'm booking my ticket now CharlieF.

You guys will enjoy it over there. The secret police knock on your door and whisk you away in the middle of the night for listening to the wrong music and all sorts of trumped up charges.
 

CharlieF

Juniors
Messages
1,440
herbert henry1908 said:
are you kidding me ? where does it say its an offence not to provide your ID?:crazy:

If it is not an offence, then whycan they detain you?

I'm for protection of individuals rights as much as the next. There are enough safeguards there for now, but I do understand your concerns, but what is the correct balance? I think they have it right.
 

Timmah

LeagueUnlimited News Editor
Staff member
Messages
100,961
Where does it say they can detain you Charlie? You're running off pure speculation.
 

gunnamatta bay

Referee
Messages
21,084
Detain is another word for arrest. If a policeman detains you then you should ask if you are under arrest. If the answer if affimative request a lawyer. If negative walk away.
 

CharlieF

Juniors
Messages
1,440
Dodger said:
Where does it say they can detain you Charlie? You're running off pure speculation.

Where does it say it is optional to provide ID when requested?

Logic tells you that if you believe that a person is a suspect and you ask them for ID which they refuse to show, you can't let them walk away.
 

Ant

Juniors
Messages
478
Listening to the police on radio today, I would have to say total storm in a tea cup and if it was say andrew ryan and his mates we would have heard nothing of it.

The details I heard today, were not that El mazri was sitting in cafe at 10.30pm, they were sitting on a bench outside closed shops at 11.15pm. Now we all have no doubt they had probably been there for coffee and were just continuing their chat after the places had closed, totally innocent.

But for mine any cop would be likely to stop and have a chat to a group of males hanging out late at night outside closed businesses. And yes they could have asked for ID. The whole process of asking for ID is simply a warning shot, saying we know who you are, we know you where here at this time, but if you are not causing trouble its not an issue.

I know when I was younger hanging out late at night having a chat with some mates in a park, or by the beach we often had police do that, and we just made small chat showed the ID and they went on their way. Putting up a fuss I'm afraid is just paranoia, and another reason why being a cop is such a difficult job. The cops are probably just going, " god we are just trying to do our job, why do you need to make an issue of such a small thing". The automatic response to any sort of negative situation is likely to cause back up to be called.

The role of police is to protect the community and you are in a situation that looks suspicious then I would expect the police, to say what are you up to.

I am afraid that there are many different groups who are more likely to be approached by police, its not just lebanese males. Groups of younger males in general are likely to be approached, why simply because there is there is a higher crime rate by people in that demographic than others.

I agree with others its playing the race card for no reason. I'm sure El Mazri was not doing anything wrong, but he wouldn't look to enhance relations between police and young lebanese males by simply co-operating and having chat I don't know.

If there was a robbery at those shops the next day and you spoke to the local cops and said what did you see, and they said "oh we saw a bunch of young blokes sitting out front about 11.15pm, it was pretty dark, but from a distance looks like they were just having a chat, so we kept going", how would the business owners react.

Being a cop is a tough job, they just deal with crap all day, so not suprisingly they may be grumpy from time to time. But if more people just did the right thing and were friendly towards them the world would be better.

By El Masri refsuing to show ID, all he did was prompt a normal rection and waste tax payers money.

Storm and tea cup here I'm afraid.
 

Timmah

LeagueUnlimited News Editor
Staff member
Messages
100,961
Logic? If they have no grounds on which to detain you, they cannot do so! Failure to produce ID when asked to without the basis of the questioning explained to the person is not a detainable offence!
 
Messages
3,818
wasnt there justification if theres a group of men hanging around a park bench with a number of breakins in the area?..and then not providing ID...and NOt recognising el masri as a footballer..does anyone know every footballers face?...and if there are gangs in the area..you know that they can cope out of the woodwork..so the cops called for back up..big deal..they had unidentified males refusing to give up ID..with a number of breakins..no wonder they did cause its 11pm at nite
 

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