Prepare for some news

[vvvrulz]

Don't disagree with that, although I do think our pack has massive holes for one reason or another, and neither Townsend or especially Lueluai look like the answer at 6

Townsend is a capable #6

Our pack is very solid in theory... Lillyman, Rapira and Matulino are proven performers at the top level. Then we have a back row of Mannering, Henry, Martel, Seb, Bukuya. Matagi a bit of a question mark but he's not a horrible player either

There is no reason why those forwards shouldn't be good enough to crack the top four, why half of them sucked this year I have no idea but it's not because they can't play the game. These are not mickey mouse players.

Its attitude and on-field leadership and direction that we are really lacking.

We don't have many holes, we have a decent team that's not performing.
Definitely lacking a touch of class to seriously threaten the title, but this lot is playoffs capable

 

[Warrior@Heart]

I disagree. We have roster issues but not at the level of the Titans, Tigers or Eels (as in, we don't have massive holes in the squad, not reliant on 2-3 young injury prone players or reliant on one superstar having a stupidly good season). I'd put us around level with the Dragons - quite a good roster that started the year with quite a bad coach and because of that plus a couple of extra reasons underperformed this season.

Dragons I'd say are a good comparison, pretty even in terms of halves, their backs are a bit better IMO. But they'd kill for Lillyman and Matulino. What we didn't have this year were young high energy props to compliment the good work up front. Hopefully We blood some young guns next year, Agnatius Paasi and Abraham Papali'i if we keep them that is but Albert Vete and Sam Lisone are good prospects aswell so surely a couple will get a look in.

 

[ozbash]

We're good enough to finish 4-6, our mid season form tells us that.

ummm, hang on a minute..

iirc we were 5-6th with about 4 games to go.

what happened and why did none of the other teams fall off like us ?

 

[vvvrulz]

ummm, hang on a minute..

iirc we were 5-6th with about 4 games to go.

what happened and why did none of the other teams fall off like us ?

Which is exactly my point.

I believe the roster is good enough to get there, and factors outside of that is the reason we fell away this year and last year

 

[JJ]

Townsend is a capable #6

Our pack is very solid in theory... Lillyman, Rapira and Matulino are proven performers at the top level. Then we have a back row of Mannering, Henry, Martel, Seb, Bukuya. Matagi a bit of a question mark but he's not a horrible player either

There is no reason why those forwards shouldn't be good enough to crack the top four, why half of them sucked this year I have no idea but it's not because they can't play the game. These are not mickey mouse players.

Its attitude and on-field leadership and direction that we are really lacking.

We don't have many holes, we have a decent team that's not performing.
Definitely lacking a touch of class to seriously threaten the title, but this lot is playoffs capable

Again, compared to Titans? Their forward pack was in theory better... they have promising halves, exciting outside backs etc...

I liked Townsend too, but the coach didn't

At the end of the day, we haven't progressed from last year, and suggesting that because during the origin period we crept up the table (happens most years) is overlooking the fact that regardless of how we got there, we again missed the 8 - and every team in the 8 is (IMO) clearly better than us


Nothing's changed, and the world is full of people and teams that could've/should've achieved x or y, we finished 9th, and I don't see any point arguing we should have finished higher - we had a good draw (played several teams below us twice), were minimally affected by SOO, in a high collision sport were not unlucky with injuries (see Penrith)...

 

[Fast Eddie]

Tigers probably a stretch, but they do have some excellent talent...

But, I'm happy to argue that the Titans first string pack at the start of the season - something like
Bailey, Srama/Falloon, Myles, Taylor, Bird, Harrison - with the likes of Douglas, James, Minichello, White and others as back up is vastly superior to ours

Backline including Kelly, Seizer, Takarangi, Roberts, Mead, Gordon etc... is a bit like ours, potential without delivering

Yes, on paper they are better than us IMO,, and they were briefly at the top of the table... anyhow, laugh away Eddie, they have admin, coaching problems etc just like us....

Laughing at you saying the Warriors are well clear of being a top 8 side. Can argue all the semantics you like but the basic facts of the season just been don't support that statement.

 

[Iron Lion]

Townsend is a capable #6

Our pack is very solid in theory... Lillyman, Rapira and Matulino are proven performers at the top level. Then we have a back row of Mannering, Henry, Martel, Seb, Bukuya. Matagi a bit of a question mark but he's not a horrible player either

All that has been proven the past couple of seasons is they are too small, ineffective and cant compete with the bigger packs. Rapira's career looks like its winding up in the NRL, Matulino has lost his edge with such small players in the pack around him. Lillyman has had a good year but in reality should be one of our smallest forwards in the roster and not the shining light.

Seb, Bukuya, Matagi are just to small - Id keep Seb and get rid of the other two. Hoffman is a gift from Heaven, Mannerings game should go to another level with him here.

Goodbye Martel - Thanks for the average years.

Goodbye Sione Lousi - You are more threatening on twitter and facebook than any facing up to any NRL defensive line.

Goodbye Bukuya - You need power forwards around you to prove your value and we dont have them here. SO you have no value to this side.

Goodbye Matagi - You are not NRL standard, Go back to Fox memorial where you will be a big star.

Goodbye Sam Rapira - Your 1 good game per season is not enough anymore, take up a ok payday in Superleague if you can get it, which I kind of doubt also.

 

[Warrior@Heart]

Townsend is a capable #6

Our pack is very solid in theory... Lillyman, Rapira and Matulino are proven performers at the top level. Then we have a back row of Mannering, Henry, Martel, Seb, Bukuya. Matagi a bit of a question mark but he's not a horrible player either

There is no reason why those forwards shouldn't be good enough to crack the top four, why half of them sucked this year I have no idea but it's not because they can't play the game. These are not mickey mouse players.

Its attitude and on-field leadership and direction that we are really lacking.

We don't have many holes, we have a decent team that's not performing.
Definitely lacking a touch of class to seriously threaten the title, but this lot is playoffs capable

Agree that's it's attitude and on field leadership that are the main areas of concern.

But I also I think too the formula for a good roster has changed in recent times, I previously would've loved that roster of fowards and while I'm making no excuses for their poor performances this year I think the better teams recruit moneyball style in terms of value for dollars and roles players assigned specific simplified tasks throughout the team. I think having a roster full of rooks and bishops isn't gonna get it done. We need either a stack of pawns on low paying contracts and a top heavy roster in key positions or we can go the Penrith route and recruit a heap of unwanted underrated players and let them fight it out for spots until the best rise to the top. Unsure of what the best route for the Warriors is but I think they have enough in terms of star power, and probably have one of the best junior nurseries so there's plenty of cheap rookies to fill out the squad. Just need to stretch the roster out and recruit smarter with a set playing structure and recruiting strategy. But none of it really matters without culture so I think that's the most important over the course of the year.

 

[vvvrulz]

At the end of the day, we haven't progressed from last year

This is true.

and every team in the 8 is (IMO) clearly better than us
.

This isn't.

If we're not playing like a bunch of tired disjointed muppets we should be able to beat Brisbane, the Dogs and Penrith or at worst be on par with them. Storm a bit harder but we're certainly capable of beating them too.

Manly, South, Roosters and on-form Cows are the teams "clearly" stronger than us.

Like I said not a title threat, but we should be a top eight side

 

[Iron Lion]

Townsend is a capable #6

Our pack is very solid in theory... Lillyman, Rapira and Matulino are proven performers at the top level. Then we have a back row of Mannering, Henry, Martel, Seb, Bukuya. Matagi a bit of a question mark but he's not a horrible player either

There is no reason why those forwards shouldn't be good enough to crack the top four, why half of them sucked this year I have no idea but it's not because they can't play the game. These are not mickey mouse players.

Furthermore Lillyman, Rapira and Matulino have been in our pack for years now and they have barely made indents to top 8 side packs. Matulino has all the potential and is the pick of those guys but these guys dont make a fearsome pack. Solid at the very best when they are on form. To compare to Roosters/Rabbitohs/Sea Eagles/ Cowboys forwards, they are well off the mark of excellent metre eaters. Bench players at best.

 

[JJ]

This is true.



This isn't.

If we're not playing like a bunch of tired disjointed muppets we should be able to beat Brisbane, the Dogs and Penrith or at worst be on par with them. Storm a bit harder but we're certainly capable of beating them too.

Manly, South, Roosters and on-form Cows are the teams "clearly" stronger than us.

Like I said not a title threat, but we should be a top eight side

Hmmm, yet we lost to the Dogs twice, Brisbane beat us, and we were 1-1 with Penrith (I argue we were lucky/flattered) in the win

 

[vvvrulz]

Furthermore Lillyman, Rapira and Matulino have been in our pack for years now and they have barely made indents to top 8 side packs. .

I suppose 2011 never happened then

I like a good debate, I don't like it when people make stuff up

 

[vvvrulz]

Hmmm, yet we lost to the Dogs twice, Brisbane beat us, and we were 1-1 with Penrith (I argue we were lucky/flattered) in the win

Both Dogs encounters were tight, 1-1 Brisbane and 1-1 Penrith.
All close and winnable games, not saying we didn't deserve to lose but they are not 'clearly ahead' of us.

 

[JJ]

I suppose 2011 never happened then

I like a good debate, I don't like it when people make stuff up

nice retort, he does enjoy making stuff up... in saying that, some players have done sweet f**k all since

 

[Fast Eddie]

Hmmm, yet we lost to the Dogs twice, Brisbane beat us, and we were 1-1 with Penrith (I argue we were lucky/flattered) in the win

How come you didn't mention we also beat Brisbane?

 

[JJ]

Both Dogs encounters were tight, 1-1 Brisbane and 1-1 Penrith.
All close and winnable games, not saying we didn't deserve to lose but they are not 'clearly ahead' of us.

But surely Penrith showed (when they were hugely injury depleted) that when it counted we weren't up to it? (add Brisbane, Newcastle, Cronulla, Roosters to that list).

 

[JJ]

How come you didn't mention we also beat Brisbane?

Forgot we played them twice, but by all means initiate a commission of enquiry :crazy:

Point remains, when pressure was on, coaches and players were found dreadfully wanting

 

[vvvrulz]

But surely Penrith showed (when they were hugely injury depleted) that when it counted we weren't up to it? (add Brisbane, Newcastle, Cronulla, Roosters to that list).

Oh hell yes, but like I said I don't think its because of the players we have available to us.
We should be putting these games away with the team we have.

 

[Iron Lion]

This is true.



This isn't.

If we're not playing like a bunch of tired disjointed muppets we should be able to beat Brisbane, the Dogs and Penrith or at worst be on par with them. Storm a bit harder but we're certainly capable of beating them too.

Manly, South, Roosters and on-form Cows are the teams "clearly" stronger than us.

Like I said not a title threat, but we should be a top eight side

We havent been top 8 for years because we dont have the talent. Our roster is significantly weaker than other teams

Very Good players

Tomkins - No6 lost as a NRL Fullback. Wear banana peels as boots.
Vatuvei - suffers dropsies and is our best metre eater forward playing on the wing
Hurrell - Most damaging player in the team. Also most unfit
Johnson - All the talent in the world, simply has not matured as a NRL half yet.
Matulino - Lost his fire, needs to be supported by better pack.

Dependable

Laumape - Overhyped for actual talent but has something that is just as valuable as talent which is heart and drive.
Mannering - Picked his game up a lot this year, no true gifts but solid across the board. Questionable leadership qualities.

After that our squad kind of bombs out when compare to the top 8 sides that have a lot of dynamic talent like the Panthers etc. Our next tier are questionable for being NRL quality


Potential Must Keep Stars - Long term

Lolohea - Very talented, very gifted, vision, agility, speed.
Kata - Dynamic and great ball passer, still very raw.
Abbey - Fantastic Line runner and has great vision. A future Josh Dugan Type talent wise
Lisone - Animal, high work rate, dynamic metre eater. Awesome Prospect.

 

[Iron Lion]

nice retort, he does enjoy making stuff up... in saying that, some players have done sweet f**k all since

WTF, no wonder we suck so bad if you guys as fans have this type of excuses.

Its 2015 next year for FU@k sake and you go back to 2011 being a good year
hahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahhahahaahhahahahahaha