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Question on Peter V'landys

PVL ...good for RL or not?


  • Total voters
    66
  • Poll closed .

Storm80

Juniors
Messages
212
The best option IMO would be to stick at this point. Let 9 & Fox pay per game as each game is provided. If it truly is a partnership then all parties must move forward with their own losses.

Next off season, look at each contract, evaluate and then choose the best path possible.

What world are you living in? Nine and Foxtel signed a deal for 2018-2022. Truly a partnership? Do you understand how a business works? Do you know the advertising revenue Nine and Foxtel have lost this year cause NRL can’t produce a product.

So on your thinking, if it’s a true partnership between the NRL and media networks then the NRL should provide Nine money for loss of advertising revenue. Which is exactly what Nine will demand if this went to court. The NRL are in no position to dictate to Nine or Foxtel anything at the moment.

Again, the NRL are currently not maintaining their legal obligation to provide NRL games due to an “Act of God”. The are in technical breach of the 2018-2022 contract but have the defence of a force majure due to COVID-19. This only puts the 2018-2022 contract on hold until the contract can resume business as usual. If there need to be changes to the terms and conditions of the contract then they need to be agreed upon by all parties. And right now, the media partners in Foxtel and Nine are in a position of power to renegotiate because they are not the party in technical breach of the contract.
 

Storm80

Juniors
Messages
212
Again you are completely wrong!

How so?

Please expand and tell me how the NRL can unilaterally amend the terms and conditions of the 2018-2022 media deal without Nine and Foxtel consent?

Geez it’s almost like I’m saying the media networks hold the power and if the NRL can’t meet its legal obligations then all relevant parties will need to renegotiate the terms of the 2018-2022 contract....

Wait on isn’t that exactly what’s been going on this week between the Chairman and heads of Nine and Foxtel??
 

Spot On

Coach
Messages
13,902
Haha am I really? Haha your response says it all. I make an extremely valid legal point. And your response is to throw a tantrum and call me names.

A party that claims an Act of God has prohibited them from performing their contract obligations must still abide by the full terms and conditions of the original contract when said Act of God no longer remains a factor.

No party has the ability to unilaterally change the terms and conditions of a contract without the express consent of the other party, regardless of an Act of God or not.

So due to our discussion we’ve ascertained the following facts haven’t we Cactus:

1. The 2018-2022 media contract was clearly entered into by Nine and Foxtel on the presumption that the NRL would provide 25 rounds, 3 SOO, internationals, Women’s NRL etc each year.

2. On 24 March 2020, the NRL announced it was suspending its season indefinitely. They claimed an “Act of God” prohibited them from meeting its contractual obligations to players and media partners.

3. On 9 April 2020, NRL announced it planned to restart the game on 28 May 2020. Despite at least a week of media speculation about a 15 round competition and split conferences etc, the NRL made no commitment to fulfil its legal obligation to provide Nine and Foxtel 25 rounds of football etc.

4. After the NRL failed to engage stakeholders prior to the announcement to resume on 28 May, Nine issued a very public rebuke about the the NRL’s poor stakeholder management and previous poor financial management of the game. A day later the Chairman of the NRL publicly apologised to Nine and confirmed he would repair the ill will.

5. In the last 5 days, the Chairman NRL confirmed he was negotiating with both Nine and Foxtel regarding the 2018-2022 media contract.

6. Media reports now suggest negotiations centre around a shortened season, with 3 SOO games to take place in three consecutive weeks after the end of the comp. Both Nine and Foxtel want to have the current 2018-2022 media deal extended two years until 2024. Both Nine and Foxtel are yet to inform the NRL what they are willing to pay for the remainder of the 2020 season. Negotiation on new terms and conditions of the 2018-2022 media deal will continue next week.

So Cactus please engage me in an intellectual discussion about how contracts work. Provide me your expert legal argument about the following:

1. Tell me how Nine are in breach of the 2018-2022 media contract when it is the NRL that has failed to fulfil its contractual obligations since 24 March 2020?

2. Tell me how an Act of God can allow a party to unilaterally decide to change the terms and conditions of a contract without the express permission and consent of the other contractual party?

I’m happy for you to prove me wrong with rational legal argument. Point me to the case law and legislation that backs up your position.

There is one main reason why the NRL are entertaining Nine and not opening up bids from other networks. And that reason is because they contractually and legally have no option. Nine and Foxtel hold all the cards because the NRL have to fulfil ALL its legal obligations under the 2018-2022 deal once the season resumes on 28 May 2020.

And this is why Nine is saying it’s willing to take a financial hit this year in broadcasting the season if they get rewarded with an additional two years on the 2018-2022 media deal.

I may have been initially misinformed and jumped the gun on my claim that triggering the Act of God clause voided the contract. But having amended my thinking, I’m pretty sure my position is rock solid.

I’ll refrain from childish insults toward you Cactus. But you’d be a fool to think I’m stooopid and have no f**king idea about contract law.

Engage me on the merits of my legal argument all you want. Just don’t carry on like a chimp flinging crap at visitors at the zoo. It’s very unbecoming of you Cactus old buddy old pal.

Post of the decade!!!!

Love ya work Storm80.
 

stryker

First Grade
Messages
5,277
You have no farkin idea about contract law

You have no farkin idea about anything to do with contracts

You have no farkin idea about common sense

You are a very very stooopid person.

I will not waste anymore of my time with you. You are an idiot.
Haha once again you get beaten and throw a tantrum.
You have never read a contract you strange merkin so just shut up.
It is as clear as day.
 

big hit!

Bench
Messages
3,452
Haha am I really? Haha your response says it all. I make an extremely valid legal point. And your response is to throw a tantrum and call me names.

A party that claims an Act of God has prohibited them from performing their contract obligations must still abide by the full terms and conditions of the original contract when said Act of God no longer remains a factor.

No party has the ability to unilaterally change the terms and conditions of a contract without the express consent of the other party, regardless of an Act of God or not.

So due to our discussion we’ve ascertained the following facts haven’t we Cactus:

1. The 2018-2022 media contract was clearly entered into by Nine and Foxtel on the presumption that the NRL would provide 25 rounds, 3 SOO, internationals, Women’s NRL etc each year.

2. On 24 March 2020, the NRL announced it was suspending its season indefinitely. They claimed an “Act of God” prohibited them from meeting its contractual obligations to players and media partners.

3. On 9 April 2020, NRL announced it planned to restart the game on 28 May 2020. Despite at least a week of media speculation about a 15 round competition and split conferences etc, the NRL made no commitment to fulfil its legal obligation to provide Nine and Foxtel 25 rounds of football etc.

4. After the NRL failed to engage stakeholders prior to the announcement to resume on 28 May, Nine issued a very public rebuke about the the NRL’s poor stakeholder management and previous poor financial management of the game. A day later the Chairman of the NRL publicly apologised to Nine and confirmed he would repair the ill will.

5. In the last 5 days, the Chairman NRL confirmed he was negotiating with both Nine and Foxtel regarding the 2018-2022 media contract.

6. Media reports now suggest negotiations centre around a shortened season, with 3 SOO games to take place in three consecutive weeks after the end of the comp. Both Nine and Foxtel want to have the current 2018-2022 media deal extended two years until 2024. Both Nine and Foxtel are yet to inform the NRL what they are willing to pay for the remainder of the 2020 season. Negotiation on new terms and conditions of the 2018-2022 media deal will continue next week.

So Cactus please engage me in an intellectual discussion about how contracts work. Provide me your expert legal argument about the following:

1. Tell me how Nine are in breach of the 2018-2022 media contract when it is the NRL that has failed to fulfil its contractual obligations since 24 March 2020?

2. Tell me how an Act of God can allow a party to unilaterally decide to change the terms and conditions of a contract without the express permission and consent of the other contractual party?

I’m happy for you to prove me wrong with rational legal argument. Point me to the case law and legislation that backs up your position.

There is one main reason why the NRL are entertaining Nine and not opening up bids from other networks. And that reason is because they contractually and legally have no option. Nine and Foxtel hold all the cards because the NRL have to fulfil ALL its legal obligations under the 2018-2022 deal once the season resumes on 28 May 2020.

And this is why Nine is saying it’s willing to take a financial hit this year in broadcasting the season if they get rewarded with an additional two years on the 2018-2022 media deal.

I may have been initially misinformed and jumped the gun on my claim that triggering the Act of God clause voided the contract. But having amended my thinking, I’m pretty sure my position is rock solid.

I’ll refrain from childish insults toward you Cactus. But you’d be a fool to think I’m stooopid and have no f**king idea about contract law.

Engage me on the merits of my legal argument all you want. Just don’t carry on like a chimp flinging crap at visitors at the zoo. It’s very unbecoming of you Cactus old buddy old pal.

Now that's a missile attack that's hit the target.

90% of folks on this forum aren't thinking logically. We hate 9, they provide a shit rugby league package (i don't disagree here) they're merkins, they've criticised the game, blah-blah-blah.

C9 and Fox made their January 1 quarterly payment under the terms of the contract. In financial terms, that was an advance on a quarter of the value of 2020 product. Did the broadcasters get a quarter of the value though in that time? Just two rounds of regular season footy, no SOO, no finals, I'd say the NRL are currently well ahead on the contract up to the suspension of footy, given the product they've delivered.

We all know due to their perilous financial state, the NRL were desperate to get the season to April 1, merely to trigger the second payment (half the 2020 value) and they would've been even further ahead in terms value among all parties. They didn't get there. The broadcasters are wiping their brow they didn't get there, because they knew, like the rest of us, that the season was going to get canned. It didn't stop the NRL from attempting to secure yet another 'advance' off their partners.

and entitled flogs like fonua-blake would be getting paid more for doing f**k all, while 5m of us unemployed are scraping day-to-day and finding odd jobs to make ends meet.
 
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Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,520
We are well off topic here and probably better to head to the media section to discuss contract law lol
 

unforgiven

Bench
Messages
3,138
How so?

Please expand and tell me how the NRL can unilaterally amend the terms and conditions of the 2018-2022 media deal without Nine and Foxtel consent?

Geez it’s almost like I’m saying the media networks hold the power and if the NRL can’t meet its legal obligations then all relevant parties will need to renegotiate the terms of the 2018-2022 contract....

Wait on isn’t that exactly what’s been going on this week between the Chairman and heads of Nine and Foxtel??
Because the Force Majeure doesn't always mean the contract has to be renegotiated or that the NRL has to provide the original content. Typically under a Force Majeure the contract will be suspended during the event. The NRL has to provide the future terms of the contract moving forward but not necessarily the content that was missed due to the event. They wouldn't get paid for the missed content but that doesn't mean the contract has to be renegotiated, the original contract can still stand! This s all of course subject to the terms of the contract but your assumption that the NRL is over a barrel and has to renegotiated isn't necessarily true!
 

Cactus

Juniors
Messages
730
Haha am I really?
Tantrum, no. Dealing with some who wont listen, yes. So I am terribly sorry if you have chosen to be offended. That’s a shame.

So lets get to the crux of this debate. You made some assertions. You said the following:

“Nine are in a strong position and they know it”

“NRL are the ones that broke the terms of the original TV rights contract by not continuing to provide a product”

“The argument that the pandemic was unforeseeable and triggers an force majeure clause is pretty weak”

“So if NRL can’t prove an Act of God, then they’ve breach contractual terms”

“And even if Nine concedes the original tv rights contract is void due to an Act of God

You were proven wrong about the contract being voided however in an effort to keep things focused I responded with a list of questions in post 130 (which you ignored).

Please re-read posts 123 and 124 and 149 and then if you wish to continue, answer the questions in my post 130. Once understood, hopefully that explains things for you. Without you answering those questions in 130 though, no progress can be made with you because you will not understand.
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,748
The NRL don't need to prove it

One simple court case that associates Force Majure to covid-19 will do and can then be referenced

Then it's up to Ch9 to prove that court case was wrong
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,969
It's so pathetic really. If the general league fan can't see what's going on here well we have no hope do we............
 

Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
Because the Force Majeure doesn't always mean the contract has to be renegotiated or that the NRL has to provide the original content. Typically under a Force Majeure the contract will be suspended during the event. The NRL has to provide the future terms of the contract moving forward but not necessarily the content that was missed due to the event. They wouldn't get paid for the missed content but that doesn't mean the contract has to be renegotiated, the original contract can still stand! This s all of course subject to the terms of the contract but your assumption that the NRL is over a barrel and has to renegotiated isn't necessarily true!

Yeh, from what I can gather, 9 can either pay for the content that is provided after the shutdown ends or void the contract (it looks like FOX is trying to use this as an excuse to void the ALeague contract).

Voiding the contract does them no good as that would just put it up for 7 or 10 to grab.

They might be able to say that they arent required to pay for or broadcast anything after October (depending on how exact the contract is about the dates) but an exclusivity clause means NRL cannot onsell to anyone else.

So I am guessing that the negotiations are about whether the season is played into October and November (which would give logic to 9 complaining about games in spring being worth less)
 

unforgiven

Bench
Messages
3,138
Yeh, from what I can gather, 9 can either pay for the content that is provided after the shutdown ends or void the contract (it looks like FOX is trying to use this as an excuse to void the ALeague contract).

Voiding the contract does them no good as that would just put it up for 7 or 10 to grab.

They might be able to say that they arent required to pay for or broadcast anything after October (depending on how exact the contract is about the dates) but an exclusivity clause means NRL cannot onsell to anyone else.

So I am guessing that the negotiations are about whether the season is played into October and November (which would give logic to 9 complaining about games in spring being worth less)

Depending on the wording of the contract, they may not even have a right to void the contract. I believe ch9 was trying to use this to get out of the simulcasting, there is no reason for either fox or the NRL to give that up! I could understand ch9 asking to pay less per match for this year content due loss of advertising revenue, but that should be able to be worked out between both parties easily!
 
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Chief_Chujo

First Grade
Messages
8,131
2021-22 of the contract are protected under the Force Majeure. Nine want to renegotiate the fees for this season, not the whole contract(although they would have liked to force a whole new contract had the NRL not secured credit). Marks went off early and told the shareholders they were saving money. But he has already conceded they have to broadcast if the NRL can produce content. Nine aren't in a strong position at all. They will probably pay less for the rejigged season, that should be expected. But the idea they have the NRL over a barrel is laughable.
 

Chief_Chujo

First Grade
Messages
8,131
Fox are dependent on subs which are driven by sports content. NRL especially in the most populous areas of Aus. Nine, being on fta, are happy to coast on reruns through the lockdown. That's why we're getting diametrically opposed articles from news and Fairfax.

On that note, ban media conglomerates plz.
 

Spot On

Coach
Messages
13,902
Another Vlandy’s fluff piece. He must Ch9’s best chance of getting what they want!

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/pe...Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1587161545

Another VLandy's fluff piece. He must be News Corp's best chance of getting what they want.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/s...r/news-story/8475139dad531acaf5a1e9435574bbaa


All about how Big Pete became RL' s saviour in the games darkest hour. A real tear jerker for fans of the great game.

Diametrically opposed media spin between NEC and News Corp?? Apparently not.
 
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Tweed Titan

Bench
Messages
3,351
The amount of smoke being blown up V’Landry’s arse by news Corp and the Talkin sport boys is concerning to me.

He’s shown great ability to spend other people’s money at Racing NSW (the Everest prize money etc) and how to turn a blind eye to unethical practices so to be fair he’ll fit in perfectly as a rugby league administrator.

I’m just worried as to why the media are making him out to be the second coming of Jesus Christ.
 

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