Rank the Brisbane bids

[The Great Dane]

How many teams do they think the AFL can sustain? anything more than 20 teams in a country the size of Australia is just silly IMO. You are really diluting the talent with that many, even at 18 they are stretching it thin. But I guess AFL has no other competitions to compare itself to so it's hard to judge.

I'm not sure to be honest, but you have to keep in mind that the AFL, and a lot of it's fans, are way more open to relocations than the NRL and it's fans are.

There're plenty of AFL fans that I've seen that would argue that the AFL can't handle any more teams than 18, but still needs clubs in Perth, Tasmania, Newcastle, etc, and that should be achieved exclusively through relocations of smaller Melbourne clubs or the Suns and/or GWS.

 

[The Great Dane]

Yeah, I can't understand why the AFL community generally accept Canberra as just a secondary market for the Giants - surely if they want a truly national league, the nation's federal capital deserves a stand-alone team?

There seems to be a lot going on there, and the attitude depend on the individual and the line of thought they come from.

A lot of the more reasonable ones simply seem to think that there're bigger fish to fry than Canberra, and that it's covered enough by 'sharing' a club with another region until said fish are fried. Which honestly seems pretty reasonable to me (a bit like the CC or CQ in RL), until Tasmania and the NT are brought up as the bigger fish to fry, but whatever you know.

The reasonable ones also say that even if Canberra did have a club to it's self that it'd be a weak regional one that would generally struggle to compete with the big city clubs, unless the AFL helped the club out of course, but it seems to me that is the case with basically all of the AFL's expansion options.

Some of the more unreasonable opinions are like legitimately thinking that the Giants have the Canberra market sewn up, or that it'd negatively effect GWS therefore Canberra should remain their crutch until they don't need it anymore.

That 'rugby' dominants the market and Aussie Rules will never be able to break that monopoly (basically the argument against Adelaide in RL, only even more baseless).

Or even the typical silly ignorant shit you hear about Canberra from people who have either never been here, or never spent a significant amount of time here. You know, like only politicians and transient public servants and Uni students inhabit Canberra and they won't support a local team, or that it's a 'boring' city without a beach and none of the players will want to move here, you know that sort of stuff. I'm sure Wellington gets similar BS.

 

[The Great Dane]

In saying that the "not enough talent" argument is purely subjective. I'd be interested to know if AFL fans ever use it as an argument against expansion.

The "not enough talent" argument is the biggest argument against expansion in the AFL, and to be fair they have a point in the AFL.

I mean their competition is very uneven as it is, and if the AFL didn't manipulate the competition and players market (i.e. rig it in the favour of certain clubs from time to time) then they'd have a class of haves and a class of have nots by now.

Adding more teams into that mix will only exasperate that problem until they can find more consistent sources of new talent.

 

[mongoose]

I feel like once you look past Perth 3 and maybe Tassie the options for AFL look stretched pretty thin.

NRL has more viable options going forward but as someone said either going past 20 for a country the size of Australia is a stretch, even with NZ thrown in for us. Bris 2, Perth, NZ 2, Adelaide, SEQ4 - Bris 3/Sunny Coast/Ipswich, Central Coast, NZ 3 and maybe CQ are all worth looking at for the NRL.

In saying that the "not enough talent" argument is purely subjective. I'd be interested to know if AFL fans ever use it as an argument against expansion. When you factor in that NRL soon should be able to draw more players from PNG, Fiji and the Pacific with better pathways coming in to place, added to the existing QLD, NSW, NZ & a handful of the best from England. Compare that to the AFL who really just have Vic, SA & WA and far larger squads.

yeah you're right, it is subjective. I hate when people like Andrew Johns say there is not enough talent for 16 teams and point to the bottom team on the ladder as an example, as if every team from 1st to 16th should be even. You could have an 8 team comp and the team coming 8th is going to look like they lack talent compared to the team coming 1st.

 

[reanimate]

yeah you're right, it is subjective. I hate when people like Andrew Johns say there is not enough talent for 16 teams and point to the bottom team on the ladder as an example, as if every team from 1st to 16th should be even. You could have an 8 team comp and the team coming 8th is going to look like they lack talent compared to the team coming 1st.

I hate when Andrew Johns goes on those talent rants too. He has the dumbest suggestions for the future of the NRL, e.g. a 12 team comp.

I feel like once you look past Perth 3 and maybe Tassie the options for AFL look stretched pretty thin.

NRL has more viable options going forward but as someone said either going past 20 for a country the size of Australia is a stretch, even with NZ thrown in for us. Bris 2, Perth, NZ 2, Adelaide, SEQ4 - Bris 3/Sunny Coast/Ipswich, Central Coast, NZ 3 and maybe CQ are all worth looking at for the NRL.

In saying that the "not enough talent" argument is purely subjective. I'd be interested to know if AFL fans ever use it as an argument against expansion. When you factor in that NRL soon should be able to draw more players from PNG, Fiji and the Pacific with better pathways coming in to place, added to the existing QLD, NSW, NZ & a handful of the best from England. Compare that to the AFL who really just have Vic, SA & WA and far larger squads.

We have the ability to take Union talent from other counties too, lack of talent just isn't a concern for the NRL as it is for the AFL. They can try and take talent from other sports, but none are as natural a fit as RL taking Union juniors and turning them into RL players. I suppose they have Gaelic football to get players from, but that only goes so far.

 

[taipan]

1. Tassie is too small to fund a $50mill a year afl club, afl don’t see value in it so won’t pay for it, ergo tassie is not getting a club anytime soon lol
2. Stadiums don’t make good investments, why do you think there aren’t a plethora of private equity firms offering to build stadiums? It only worked for afl, if it actually does, because they got it at a cellar price and have numerous teams using it. It won’t work for nrl as it has neither of those things.
3. Sharks and others are a big reason the game is still in no position to expand. Whilst the Afl has rich clubs it could leverage off to invest in expansion, nrl does not and does not have the level of control to do so if it did, gws and suns are where they are spending their expansion money off the back of these successful clubs lol.
4. You’re still losing money hand over fist, that once in a lifetime asset sell off will soon be gone, you’d better hope people moving into these new apartments are pokie addicts lol.
5. AFL didn’t waste money on nz, it was a deal between the afl club and the city. And if they did, you could have such follies when you’ve got as much revenue as them.
6. Vlandys came out couple of weeks ago and said expansion wasn’t off the table lol.

1. That's not what the Tasmanian Go t has stated.Repeat their Govt.You say the AFL don't see value in it, how would you know.Just because new clubs started in GWS and GC, which are costing the AFL a motza.And the AFL would get better overall TV ratings from. a Tasmania side in their heartland.

2.Casinos make better investments ,but rugby league is a rectangular sport, and there are a few other codes that need such access.
Weiss from the ARLC is investigating investments for infrastructure.Stadiums are one of the possibilities in the long term.The AFL got their $600m Loan from NAB, due to the Marvel stadium asset backing.

3.Perth and others are the reason ,the cupboard was left empty during 1995, the very year they entered.Your sad mob self destructed ,don't blame others.There are NRL clubs that are not exactly poor with licensed club backing.
GWS and the Suns currently receiving largesse prior to COVID-19,and Victorian economy being screwed big time ,is going to leave the AFL coffers with a big financial headache.And they have intimated clubs and staff will have to work under a much tighter ship.Good luck GWS and Suns, better get some busking practise for Sydney rail stations.

4. Please.I've stated the monies the Sharks have lost has already been allowed for.I further noted the developers are reimbursing the club, part of the agreements fro time out.I understand was to get the club to move out early, so the developers had free access to develop the whole residential/commercial/club area development.In addition the club has staff on reduced salaries and some have been retrenched.They are cost cutting .like your boot licking code is doing.
Perth didn't have the financial backing for transport costs for other clubs.Private owners are fickle when they choose.Which means private ownership regardless of their wealth is not always secure.

What a LOL.If you have half a clue, which you don't ,the Licenced club has never had big income from pokies, and the Football club has not been able to access large amounts as a result.So Einstein they are not relying on that source to stay afloat.The football club has noted they cannot rely on that source of revenue ,because pokie income is dropping everywhere. Hence the new restaurants ,bistro, bars ,sponsors boxes.i'm still asking how's Perth's licensed club?

5.Once again the predictable" AFL can do no wrong BS," you come up with.Of course there are deals in place, that doesn't mean there are cost outlays to the AFL or to any football code.They thought NZ would fall in love with their code and come in their hordes.They didn't and by not doing so, let the AFL know they weren't wanted.Yet in typical fashion you continue to defend them, they have you by the short and curlies mate.

6 Scoop !!!.V'Landys has been talking Brisbane 2 for some time LOL.That is where the heartland is ,and where a club will stick with the code,Perth has not been on his radar which was and still is my point.
And quite frankly after the way your mob screwed the code's administration with SL ,deservedly so.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

1. That's not what the Tasmanian Go t has stated.Repeat their Govt.You say the AFL don't see value in it, how would you know.Just because new clubs started in GWS and GC, which are costing the AFL a motza.And the AFL would get better overall TV ratings from. a Tasmania side in their heartland.

2.Casinos make better investments ,but rugby league is a rectangular sport, and there are a few other codes that need such access.
Weiss from the ARLC is investigating investments for infrastructure.Stadiums are one of the possibilities in the long term.The AFL got their $600m Loan from NAB, due to the Marvel stadium asset backing.

3.Perth and others are the reason ,the cupboard was left empty during 1995, the very year they entered.Your sad mob self destructed ,don't blame others.There are NRL clubs that are not exactly poor with licensed club backing.
GWS and the Suns currently receiving largesse prior to COVID-19,and Victorian economy being screwed big time ,is going to leave the AFL coffers with a big financial headache.And they have intimated clubs and staff will have to work under a much tighter ship.Good luck GWS and Suns, better get some busking practise for Sydney rail stations.

4. Please.I've stated the monies the Sharks have lost has already been allowed for.I further noted the developers are reimbursing the club, part of the agreements fro time out.I understand was to get the club to move out early, so the developers had free access to develop the whole residential/commercial/club area development.In addition the club has staff on reduced salaries and some have been retrenched.They are cost cutting .like your boot licking code is doing.
Perth didn't have the financial backing for transport costs for other clubs.Private owners are fickle when they choose.Which means private ownership regardless of their wealth is not always secure.

What a LOL.If you have half a clue, which you don't ,the Licenced club has never had big income from pokies, and the Football club has not been able to access large amounts as a result.So Einstein they are not relying on that source to stay afloat.The football club has noted they cannot rely on that source of revenue ,because pokie income is dropping everywhere. Hence the new restaurants ,bistro, bars ,sponsors boxes.i'm still asking how's Perth's licensed club?

5.Once again the predictable" AFL can do no wrong BS," you come up with.Of course there are deals in place, that doesn't mean there are cost outlays to the AFL or to any football code.They thought NZ would fall in love with their code and come in their hordes.They didn't and by not doing so, let the AFL know they weren't wanted.Yet in typical fashion you continue to defend them, they have you by the short and curlies mate.

6 Scoop !!!.V'Landys has been talking Brisbane 2 for some time LOL.That is where the heartland is ,and where a club will stick with the code,Perth has not been on his radar which was and still is my point.
And quite frankly after the way your mob screwed the code's administration with SL ,deservedly so.

A few weeks ago Perth Red was saying the NRL should have kept the Western Reds and kicked out the Cowboys. WTF?

The only reason he hates Leagues Clubs is because Western Australia’s government prohibits all licenced venues in Perth from having poker machines. He knows a Perth team that will be hamstrung with massive travel costs wouldn’t be able to compete against clubs that have poker machine revenue to fall back on. Instead of trying to sabotage things for everyone else to bring us down to WA’s level, he should contact his local MP to demand poker machines be legalised at licences venues.

Cronulla are one of the wealthier clubs these days. It must shit PR to no end to see them succeed while the administration rightly ignores Perth.

 

[taipan]

A few weeks ago Perth Red was saying the NRL should have kept the Western Reds and kicked out the Cowboys. WTF?

The only reason he hates Leagues Clubs is because Western Australia’s government prohibits all licenced venues in Perth from having poker machines. He knows a Perth team that will be hamstrung with massive travel costs wouldn’t be able to compete against clubs that have poker machine revenue to fall back on. Instead of trying to sabotage things for everyone else to bring us down to WA’s level, he should contact his local MP to demand poker machines be legalised at licences venues.

Cronulla are one of the wealthier clubs these days. It must shit PR to no end to see them succeed while the administration rightly ignores Perth.

I'm the first to admit Cronulla have had some sh*tty administrators, but they have at least got their crap together now.
Imagine if we had a Perth team now, with the logistics of playing under COVID>I'm more than happy for a Perth side to come in, but they are hardly bread and butter issues of national importance, and the Sydney clubs are therefore irrelevant.
We need to get money behind us, else we are squirting the yellow stuff in the wind.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I'm the first to admit Cronulla have had some sh*tty administrators, but they have at least got their crap together now.
Imagine if we had a Perth team now, with the logistics of playing under COVID>I'm more than happy for a Perth side to come in, but they are hardly bread and butter issues of national importance, and the Sydney clubs are therefore irrelevant.
We need to get money behind us, else we are squirting the yellow stuff in the wind.

I cannot see a Perth team being viable. The West Coast Eagles were $13 million in debt after their 3rd season and AwFuL made them pay for all flights from Melbournian clubs. The only thing that kept them from being wound up was the West Australian Football Commission took 75% control of rhe company that owned the Eagles. There's no equivalent for an NRL team in Perth that will run into these problems. The Reds were destitute after their first season and needed funding from News Ltd to stay afloat.

AwFuL still doesn't cover all travel costs for the Eagles and Dockers. They only fund 12 business class seats, and only since 2017. The rest is funded by the teams.

A Perth NRL team will be in the same position as the Reds, except inflation has made everything much more expensive today than in 1995.

 

[Perth Red]

I'm the first to admit Cronulla have had some sh*tty administrators, but they have at least got their crap together now.
Imagine if we had a Perth team now, with the logistics of playing under COVID>I'm more than happy for a Perth side to come in, but they are hardly bread and butter issues of national importance, and the Sydney clubs are therefore irrelevant.
We need to get money behind us, else we are squirting the yellow stuff in the wind.

not even close, still churning through CEOs, still losing millions every year, still can’t crack 15k crowds. If that’s getting your sht together god help you! Oh but youVe bought a golf club lol.

 

[taipan]

not even close, still churning through CEOs, still losing millions every year, still can’t crack 15k crowds. If that’s getting your sht together god help you! Oh but youVe bought a golf club lol.

You like the man who fell out of the balloon, you're not in it.The Sharks of today are not the Sharks of yesterday.
You couldn't crack 15k crowds after you went to SL, and help empty the NRL coffers.
Stick to West Coast, it's too far away here for you to get any insight.
Still asking about your licensed club and ground ownership LOL.

This coming from a wannabee club, who doesn't own a school canteen.
Now own 1 licensed club at Kareela trading well above expectations, will in the next couple of years own their main licensed club both with zero debt.All fines paid, and cost cutting of football staff.Own ground.Reasonable sh*t.

List your club's assets down ,not the millionaire backer, who can turn the taps off if the mood suits.Looks as if there is little sh*t to put together LOL

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

You like the man who fell out of the balloon, you're not in it.The Sharks of today are not the Sharks of yesterday.
You couldn't crack 15k crowds after you went to SL, and help empty the NRL coffers.
Stick to West Coast, it's too far away here for you to get any insight.
Still asking about your licensed club and ground ownership LOL.

For two of the Reds' three seasons they averaged less than 9,000.

 

[taipan]

For two of the Reds' three seasons they averaged less than 9,000.

Shssh it's a secret, plus they have big TV ratings ,so ch9 will be tripping itself over, to grab a slice of these west coast ratings.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Shssh it's a secret, plus they have big TV ratings ,so ch9 will be tripping itself over, to grab a slice of these west coast ratings.

NRL games in Perth draw about 5,000 on FTA. Crowds for 3 of the 4 games played there in 2016 and 2017 were terrible.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

The Reds couldn’t cover travel costs in 1995. I fail to see how a team would do so today.

The same way the A-league, Super Netball, Super Rugby (until recently), NBL and Cricket Australia all do it with less revenue than the NRL has.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The same way the A-league, Super Netball, Super Rugby (until recently), NBL and Cricket Australia all do it with less revenue than the NRL has.

Where does rugby league sit in the hierarchy of Western Australian sport?

I'd imagine the main games in town would be fumbleball and cricket. Every business in town that wants to support the community through sport and get maximum bang for buck when flogging their product would chase after these sports.

Soccer and basketball fill a void and have a strong participation rate. Less money would be thrown at them and they wouldn't be seen by as many people, but they are there and known about.

Netball is the number one game amongst girls. Great opportunity for companies focussed towards women.

Rugby union has the establishment.

What does RL have in Perth?

I cannot see an NRL club attracting the financial support that it will need to run its football department. It sure won't get the money through memberships and gate receipts. An NBL, A-League or Super Rugby club doesn't need $30-$40 million a year just to compete. An NRL club from Perth that scrambles to put together $20 million to field an uncompetitive side will have no chance of succeeding.

 

[mongoose]

They will get the 13 mil grant from NRL. Gate takings and memberships but yes they probably need some private investors to top it up for a little while. Doesn't have to be a billionaire like Twiggy though.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

They will get the 13 mil grant from NRL. Gate takings and memberships but yes they probably need some private investors to top it up for a little while. Doesn't have to be a billionaire like Twiggy though.

The only way it will work is if the rules are bent by the ARLC to give them an advantage.

Melbourne Storm aren't where they are by playing fairly. They broke every rule in the book and were aided and abetted along the way by News Ltd. We know at least $101,500,000 was funnelled into them by News Ltd and the ARLC between 1998 and 2018, on top of what they were already getting to run day to day operations. Anyone who thinks none of that money lined the pockets of the players on their roster, coaching department and recruitment officers is naive or stupid.

It should be noted that Cooper Cronk left the club after the extra funding dried up and Billy Slater retired. Cam Smith re-signed, but under the stipulation that he play a testimonial match at Lang Park to scam money out of the public and run two corporate lunches to scam even more moolah out of people. Oh, and miraculously the club was now solvent! God knows what scam they are running now.

How do you assemble a roster that contains C Smith, B Slater, C Cronk and C Munster and, manage to poach J Hughes and B Smith from the Cowboys?

At one stage they also had S Drinkwater and R Papenhauyzen at the same time.

How do they line up C Smith, B Smith and Harry Grant at the same time when all are dummy halves?

Every club has talent scouts. It's not as if the scouts working for Melbourne are the only ones that can identify a good junior. Something else is drawing these kids to Melbourne, away from their family and friends. The only thing strong enough to do that is money.

Perth will need $200 million. Only Twiggy has that money to play with.

 

[greenBV4]

The only way it will work is if the rules are bent by the ARLC to give them an advantage.

Melbourne Storm aren't where they are by playing fairly. They broke every rule in the book and were aided and abetted along the way by News Ltd. We know at least $101,500,000 was funnelled into them by News Ltd and the ARLC between 1998 and 2018, on top of what they were already getting to run day to day operations. Anyone who thinks none of that money lined the pockets of the players on their roster, coaching department and recruitment officers is naive or stupid.

It should be noted that Cooper Cronk left the club after the extra funding dried up and Billy Slater retired. Cam Smith re-signed, but under the stipulation that he play a testimonial match at Lang Park to scam money out of the public and run two corporate lunches to scam even more moolah out of people. Oh, and miraculously the club was now solvent! God knows what scam they are running now.

I know melbourne aren't by any definition a loved club by opposition fans but holy shit they rubbed you up the wrong way

WHY SHOULDNT A CLUBS OWNER FUNNEL MONEY INTO THEIR CLUB. Its no different to the millions funnelled into heartland clubs to keep them afloat by debatably unethical pokie money. Melbourne unlike many other clubs, never went bust, and now have a strong private ownership group, and make a profit without artificially topping up the revenue from pokie money. They cheated, yes, they also copped an Australian record fine for doing so.

Cronk and slater left when the money dried up? Bahahaha
Cronk left for his girl, they both retired because of their age and because it was time
Storm are more financially strong now then they ever have been, and continue to grow their profits year on year

If a Melbourne team brings nothing to the game then why were both the Superleague and ARL planning on having a team? Why were the Storm brought in for the inaugural NRL season? Why were they set up for success? BECAUSE THERE IS VALUE IN THE MARKET

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I know melbourne aren't by any definition a loved club by opposition fans but holy shit they rubbed you up the wrong way

WHY SHOULDNT A CLUBS OWNER FUNNEL MONEY INTO THEIR CLUB. Its no different to the millions funnelled into heartland clubs to keep them afloat by debatably unethical pokie money. Melbourne unlike many other clubs, never went bust, and now have a strong private ownership group, and make a profit without artificially topping up the revenue from pokie money. They cheated, yes, they also copped an Australian record fine for doing so.

Cronk and slater left when the money dried up? Bahahaha
Cronk left for his girl, they both retired because of their age and because it was time
Storm are more financially strong now then they ever have been, and continue to grow their profits year on year

The only reason they never went bust is because News Ltd bailed them out year after year and had the ARLC do it from 2012-2018. No club that has that kind of support will go bust.

If you believe the official spin about Cronk leaving for his GF's career then you're beyond reasoning with.

How do you think Melbourne kept C Smith, C Cronk and B Slater in 2011 after the salary cap rort was exposed?

Surely you don't think they all agreed to play for a McHappy Meal voucher just to be at the same club?

The owner of the Storm from 1998-2012, News Ltd, had a 50% stake in the game at the time. It was a conflict of interest. When they signed away their stake in the game it was under the condition the ARLC funnel $26.5 million into the Storm until 2018.