RD 24: Parramatta Eels v Manly at Pirtek Stadium 7.45pm 22/8/14

[Poupou Escobar]

Just because you have plenty of money doesn't guarantee you success on the football field.

Yes it does. Money can solve anything.

Go and have a chat to the Canberra Raiders and their 7 Licenced Clubs in the area with $50 million plus in revenue a year and a block of land in the middle of the Canberra CBD that they're about to offload for $80 million. Not sure they would get much for their 2014 Wooden Spoon if they end up winning though...

Canberra's a stupid example. Their problem is they lack talent. However they are limited in how much they can spend due to the salary cap - an artificial barrier that stops them being able to buy the players they need. The reason they can't buy these players is because they demand extra to go and live in Canberra - a nice city (IMO), but not somewhere that rich 20-something bogans want to live. If Canberra could just pay these players extra they would, but the salary cap puts the brakes on it.

So instead Canberra spend up big on coaches (lol), junior development and facilities - three areas free of the salary cap. But lack of players is hurting them.

Don't forget that prior to this year they had only won one spoon (1982), and since 1986 had never missed the finals in consecutive years.

 

[souths_pride]

Just because you have plenty of money doesn't guarantee you success on the football field.

Go and have a chat to the Canberra Raiders and their 7 Licenced Clubs in the area with $50 million plus in revenue a year and a block of land in the middle of the Canberra CBD that they're about to offload for $80 million. Not sure they would get much for their 2014 Wooden Spoon if they end up winning though...

100% correct. Thats what the salary cap is there for! Even when it was adjusted after the new tv rights deal, it was still set at a limit which every club could virtually afford. The key to on field success is setting up your club correctly and in order to do that you need to have 3 key people I feel. You need to have a CEO who is good at handling the business side of things, you need a coach who can bring in the right people and handle the football side of things and you need a middle man, like a general manager, who sort of works with both the CEO and the coach. The middle guy needs to have a general understanding of both business and footy so he/she can work with both parties, allow effective communication etc. I think Penrith's set up is the best at the moment, along with Souths and the Roosters; there are probably other clubs who are well run by they're the ones that stand out.

This is the reason why the NRL want independent directors to come in and help run the clubs - because the NRL is sick of seeing people who don't have a clue about business and/or have little or no experience in such an executive role. Alot of people may think its a bit harsh but it comes back to the NRL wanting to promote a good clean image and compete with other sporting codes; the NRL feels that incidents, such as the Potter/Wests Tigers board saga gives the game a black eye and looks amateurish!

To be honest, I think clubs have given the NRL no choice. I'm not trying to pick on any clubs in particular. In fact let me start of by saying, I thought it was one one of the biggest blunders in rugby leauge history that George Piggins was appointed to run Souths! However, what on earth would the likes of Steve Sharp and Matthew Gidley (just to name two) would know about running a business? Yes, they were fantastic players in their day but Steve Sharp was a bloody plumber! Becoming a CEO is not like jumping on seek or career one and applying for a job at your local Coles! It takes years of experience in the corporate world to get to that level! Most don't get appointed to their mid to late forties at least! Its no coincidence that teams with good CEO's are generally the most successful ones; its not always the case but more often than not a competent CEO goes along way to ensuring stability at the club.

 

[Chipmunk]

Yes it does. Money can solve anything.



Canberra's a stupid example. Their problem is they lack talent. However they are limited in how much they can spend due to the salary cap - an artificial barrier that stops them being able to buy the players they need. The reason they can't buy these players is because they demand extra to go and live in Canberra - a nice city (IMO), but not somewhere that rich 20-something bogans want to live. If Canberra could just pay these players extra they would, but the salary cap puts the brakes on it.

So instead Canberra spend up big on coaches (lol), junior development and facilities - three areas free of the salary cap. But lack of players is hurting them.

Don't forget that prior to this year they had only won one spoon (1982), and since 1986 had never missed the finals in consecutive years.

The Canberra Raiders are a perfect prime example of just because you have plenty of cash it doesn't mean success.

 

[Chipmunk]

100% correct. Thats what the salary cap is there for! Even when it was adjusted after the new tv rights deal, it was still set at a limit which every club could virtually afford. The key to on field success is setting up your club correctly and in order to do that you need to have 3 key people I feel. You need to have a CEO who is good at handling the business side of things, you need a coach who can bring in the right people and handle the football side of things and you need a middle man, like a general manager, who sort of works with both the CEO and the coach. The middle guy needs to have a general understanding of both business and footy so he/she can work with both parties, allow effective communication etc. I think Penrith's set up is the best at the moment, along with Souths and the Roosters; there are probably other clubs who are well run by they're the ones that stand out.

This is the reason why the NRL want independent directors to come in and help run the clubs - because the NRL is sick of seeing people who don't have a clue about business and/or have little or no experience in such an executive role. Alot of people may think its a bit harsh but it comes back to the NRL wanting to promote a good clean image and compete with other sporting codes; the NRL feels that incidents, such as the Potter/Wests Tigers board saga gives the game a black eye and looks amateurish!

To be honest, I think clubs have given the NRL no choice. I'm not trying to pick on any clubs in particular. In fact let me start of by saying, I thought it was one one of the biggest blunders in rugby leauge history that George Piggins was appointed to run Souths! However, what on earth would the likes of Steve Sharp and Matthew Gidley (just to name two) would know about running a business? Yes, they were fantastic players in their day but Steve Sharp was a bloody plumber! Becoming a CEO is not like jumping on seek or career one and applying for a job at your local Coles! It takes years of experience in the corporate world to get to that level! Most don't get appointed to their mid to late forties at least! Its no coincidence that teams with good CEO's are generally the most successful ones; its not always the case but more often than not a competent CEO goes along way to ensuring stability at the club.

You could use the same argument about Gus, what would he know about running a business?

The NRL will never get independent directors because the clubs dont want it. They will also never have a draft, because the Big Players in the NRL like Nick Politis and Gus won't have a bar of it.

As much as the NRL thinks it controls the game, it is still only in business because the big clubs, with the big power brokers, let them "run" the game to a certain point.

If you piss off the big game power brokers enough, in the end they will just piss you off, like they did the previous 'owners' of the game, and find some other people to think they actually run the game.

The ARL Commission exists because the 16 NRL Clubs allow them to exist...

 

[souths_pride]

Yes it does. Money can solve anything.



Canberra's a stupid example. Their problem is they lack talent. However they are limited in how much they can spend due to the salary cap - an artificial barrier that stops them being able to buy the players they need. The reason they can't buy these players is because they demand extra to go and live in Canberra - a nice city (IMO), but not somewhere that rich 20-something bogans want to live. If Canberra could just pay these players extra they would, but the salary cap puts the brakes on it.

So instead Canberra spend up big on coaches (lol), junior development and facilities - three areas free of the salary cap. But lack of players is hurting them.

Don't forget that prior to this year they had only won one spoon (1982), and since 1986 had never missed the finals in consecutive years.

The problem with Canberra is not their talent; they produce awesome talent. Rather, the problem with Canberra is what you allude to in your second point - the culture. Culture has alot to do with on-field success and the way the club is run. Canberra's problems lie deeper than just players not wanting to live in Canberra. I think they have serious internal problems. However, the lack of onfield success does play a part for sure! I would bet my life on the fact that if Canberra had the success that it did in the 1990s and that the likes of Souths, Manly, Melbourne, the Roosters are having now, every player would kill for the chance to play for them. Look at what happened to Souths; prior to the Russell Crowe era we were getting snubbed by the likes of Matt Orford and Hazen El-Masri - two mediocre first grade players and we were offering them ridiculous money!

In saying that, the media has created this fervor that Canberra is the most boring place on earth and that is why players don't want to play there! Just the other day I read an article saying that the reason why Canberra have had to sack so many players is because the city has no good nightclubs and that the players are forced to find other ways to amuse themselves. I think that is rubbish! Throughout the 1990s the raiders had one of the greatest teams ever assembled and there was no one misbehaving nor was there talk of Canberra being boring.

At the end of the day it comes down to on-field success and you get onfield success through good off the field appointments and I'm not so sure Canberra have that. Its basically a domino effect; ordinary CEO/board etc results in either an unhappy or an ordinary coach, an ordinary/unhappy coach can't get results, when he can't get results players become hesitant to join and demand ridiculous money to join, when you can't attract/keep quality players then your going to be in deep trouble. Players want to play for a club where they have a chance of both winning things and have a chance of being noticed for rep selection. Look at the players who have snubbed signing for Canberra next season and look at who they have bought! I mean they have gone for Sisa Waqa as one of their marquee signings when their current outside backs are the best players in the team! That signing reeks of desperation! As I said its all about on-field success not the suburb!

 

[souths_pride]

You could use the same argument about Gus, what would he know about running a business?

The NRL will never get independent directors because the clubs dont want it. They will also never have a draft, because the Big Players in the NRL like Nick Politis and Gus won't have a bar of it.

As much as the NRL thinks it controls the game, it is still only in business because the big clubs, with the big power brokers, let them "run" the game to a certain point.

If you piss off the big game power brokers enough, in the end they will just piss you off, like they did the previous 'owners' of the game, and find some other people to think they actually run the game.

The ARL Commission exists because the 16 NRL Clubs allow them to exist...

Phil Gould doesn't run the business side of things. Penrith have a CEO which is Warren Wilson, Phil Gould is the middle guy - his title is 'General Manager' and obviously Ivan Cleary is the coach. Their board is also well set up as far as I know with a couple of ex-players and businessmen etc on there. Phil Gould does alot of behind the scenes sort of stuff and helps out both Wilson and Cleary.

I wouldn't underestimate the power of the NRL. They can make life very difficult for clubs. For instance, with the independent directors situation the NRL may withdraw funding from clubs who refuse to appoint independent directors; thats if it gets passed. However, in a sense your right - the clubs have an enormous say as to who runs the game! I personally, don't think the independent director thing will happen simply because it would mean clubs would be giving themselves a big vote of no confidence when it comes to keeping their house in order; no club is going to do that! As for the draft, I don't think there is anything concrete yet on how it is going to work; the devil is in the details. Its failed before and alot of thinking will need to go into it before it is put in place. One of the fundamental problems with the draft is what happens if a player gets picked for a club he doesn't want to join? What happens then? The whole thing is very problematic! The problem with David Smith is that he has alot of grandiose ideas but he hasn't been around Rugby League enough to understand it in an Australian context.

 

[T.S Quint]

Great win.
Couldn't be happier right now. It was a stunning second half performance from our guys.
The crowd at the game was epic. Such a brilliant atmosphere, and it seemed to go for almost the whole game - it certainly was full-on during the whole second half.

I think Toutai is getting a raw deal in this thread though.
He made a bad mistake dropping that bomb, but apart from that I think he played well. Did plenty of good runs, made some good decisions in defence and scored the try that wrapped it up.
I'm not the biggest fan of his, but it seems that one mistake from him is blown out of proportion because you blokes don't like him.

 

[Gary Gutful]

I'm in NZ and was out somewhere last night that didn't have the football on. Got back in time to see the post match gibber and highlights and was stunned by the 2nd half tries. Can't wait to watch the full match when I get back on Monday.

 

[strider]

Can someone confirm that we have not conceded a 2nd half point in our last 3 matches?? I don't think we have which is quite amazing if correct.

We've also conceded a try in the first five minutes of each game as well I think. Which I think is disgusting. We really need to work on our starts.

I believe we have been down at half time for our last 5 games and we have won 4 of those games...

Needless to say, this is a different team than the last couple of years...

we haven't conceded a try after the 29 minute mark the last 3 games

whilst its shitty we have been starting poorly (10, 18, 12 put on us before we get in the game), I see a silver lining in that we are not letting in points just before halftime and going to the break demoralised, which has been an achilles heal of ours in recent times

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

I'm in NZ and was out somewhere last night that didn't have the football on. Got back in time to see the post match gibber and highlights and was stunned by the 2nd half tries. Can't wait to watch the full match when I get back on Monday.

Then go back and look at page 17 of this thread and see what many of our fans thought of our team at half time.

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

I agree, I just gave myself an uppercut.

Don't worry mate. Your half time blast might have been read to the team in the dressing room. If so, it worked.

 

[yy_cheng]

Isaac really led the line speed in defensive

 

[Parramatta1947]

Crowd played a huge role last night.......also think the players just loved being back at home

 

[emjaycee]

The crowd was pumped at the start of the game and quitened down at 0-12 but once the Sandow try was disallowed that was it... the crowd were noticeably pissed off and lifted in vitriol against the refs and Moanly. As we fought back and our defence lifted, the crowd just kept lifting and lifting as well.

Reminiscent of late 2009 crowds willing the boys to win.

 

[Joely01]

:lol: looks like a lot if people on here have the problem of going off to early

 

[emjaycee]

:lol: looks like a lot if people on here have the problem of going off to early

So true Joely.
I never read the game thread until after the game and I always get a laugh knowing the result and reading the thread.

 

[Sphagnum]

Parra were $8 at half time. Easy money. The refereeing in that game was disgraceful. Brilliant win.

 

[hineyrulz]

I'm in NZ and was out somewhere last night that didn't have the football on. Got back in time to see the post match gibber and highlights and was stunned by the 2nd half tries. Can't wait to watch the full match when I get back on Monday.

Worth waiting for Gaz, especially the brutal second half defence. We bashed the merkins out of it.

 

[hineyrulz]

Yep, can't fault the effort. They are classes above our boys. We have to many weaknesses out there to expolit. Thir backline is easily the best in the comp and their pack always seem to hold their own. Whoever beats them will win the comp.

Gee I hope I am right for once :crazy:

 

[Jake the snake]

Brilliant comeback yesterday. It's actually been the way we have been playing for the whole season where we finish stronger. It's just that we let team lap us in first up half. Anyway it was brilliant second half performance!!