Rd18: Parra v Penrith GAME DAY thread (11/9/20)

[T.S Quint]

Don't take this the wrong way.
But you do not understand rugby league to the same level as myself. I can read and dissect at a very high level.

*rhead

 

[Gronk]

It's an interesting read, and some good points were made...

However, he mentions that we were missing our hooker, and 5/8 - but he fails to mention that we had those same players for the lastv2 months, and struggled to get our attack clicking.

It's nice to say that we should support the team, and I agree with the sentiment - however, highlighting that the side has some serious issues isn’t deathriding the club.

To put some balance into the discussion:

* at one stage, Parramatta were leading the competition

* at one stage, Parramatta's defence was the best in the competition

* at one stage, Parramatta's attack was the sixth best in the competition

Fast forward to current time, and:

* Parramatta are 4th, facing a real possibility of missing out on the topic altogether

* Parramatta's defence is now the 4th best (which is still incredible, but it has dropped a tad)

* Parramatta's attack is 9th best

* Parramatta has the 6th best for and against

It's not doom, and gloom - but there are issues there, plain for everyone to see.

Saying we were missing troops on Friday - which we undoubtedly were - is factual, but a little misleading when discussing our average attack.

I think it's admirable for people to stay positive - hell, I'm proud as hell that we were DOMINATED on Friday night, and only conceded 3 tries -, but I think it's unfair to label people who are concerned that the side has been struggling as negative Nellies.

Winning masks everything - we went through a period where we played quite poorly, and still won more than we lost.

The same issues that were evident two months ago, are still evident now; none of us can say certain (unless we are on the coaching staff) whether it's deliberate, a ploy, or whether the coaching staff just cannot improve the team - but it's a little concerning, as a fan.

I firmly believe that this team - on paper - is good enough to challenge for a title. I genuinely believe that.

But there must be some changes made to address our deficiencies.

All worthy points. Throw in @emjaycee 's observation that we look tired and I think we've got it covered.

BTW if we weren't tired before last week, i bet we are now. We made 465 tackles which is 100 more than most plus we missed 57. Which suggests that we were often missing first contact but we were good at the scramble - evidence by how many times we turned them away.

We must take the positives out of that match and also from the Warriors match which proved that we can score a few nice tries when we get ball down there.

I ran through the last couple of dozen games on champion data and when we have 51%+ of the ball we just don't lose. Clearly this week we need to work harder to earn possession, make less errors and command better field position.

 

[Eelementary]

All worthy points. Throw in @emjaycee 's observation that we look tired and I think we've got it covered.

BTW if we weren't tired before last week, i bet we are now. We made 465 tackles which is 100 more than most plus we missed 57. Which suggests that we were often missing first contact but we were good at the scramble - evidence by how many times we turned them away.

We must take the positives out of that match and also from the Warriors match which proved that we can score a few nice tries when we get ball down there.

I ran through the last couple of dozen games on champion data and when we have 51%+ of the ball we just don't lose. Clearly this week we need to work harder to earn possession, make less errors and command better field position.

The game against the Panthers was a monumental effort, and given the lack of territory, and possession we suffered, I think we can all cut the team's lack of attack a little slack.

After all, few teams are going to pile on points with less than 40% of the ball, and less than 10 tackles in the opposition 20m zone.

 

[Eelementary]

All worthy points. Throw in @emjaycee 's observation that we look tired and I think we've got it covered.

BTW if we weren't tired before last week, i bet we are now. We made 465 tackles which is 100 more than most plus we missed 57. Which suggests that we were often missing first contact but we were good at the scramble - evidence by how many times we turned them away.

We must take the positives out of that match and also from the Warriors match which proved that we can score a few nice tries when we get ball down there.

I ran through the last couple of dozen games on champion data and when we have 51%+ of the ball we just don't lose. Clearly this week we need to work harder to earn possession, make less errors and command better field position.

Also - fair points.

We can compete with most (if not all) teams, if we get even possession.

But we need to work to make that happen.

 

[hindy111]

You may have to dumb it down for him.

Ok well there are 16 teams. All are trying to win a competition. Only one can.
Most players are of similar quality when directly compare. Even risbane have some quality players. Most sides are only little bit away from winning a comp.
The issue is that plenty of teams are not far away imo.

To keep a successful side you need to always rotate the roster to keep it fresh. A promotion of juniors and a pathway is a must. Why else would a junior bust his gut if they don't see some light at the end of tunnel. Juniors always will get a few years cheaper value.
A must is to have experienced guys, good attitudes amd wanting to win. I do not like to many older guys who have been there and done that. A few is fine but once guys have won a comp at another club I feel they are never the same. The hunger goes. It may only be 10% but it's shows.
Going back 15yrs it was easier to just have a good crop of players and a good style to win a comp. To many sides have this now. Going to the next level is far more complicated. One poor move is all it takes to slip down the pack cause it is that competetive.

I understand what BA means by we are not far away. We are not. But either are Brisbane or the Dogs. 1 or 2 players can change a teams fortune.

Whoever signed MJ for 2 more seasons made an error. Why Sivo is not being dropped is an error. See younger guys are not seeing a chance. The light is out.
Unsure what the hell BA is doing in those decisions.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Don't take this the wrong way.
But you do not understand rugby league to the same level as myself. I can read and dissect at a very high level.

I have a mate who gives me access to special camera angles that the public don’t get to see.

I can let you see them for $500.

 

[hindy111]

What glasses mate?
I think we are done for the year.
Our attack is non-existent, our team are tired and I reckon we lose the next 2 games against more enthusiastic opponents.
Just like I said in my post.

I do not think we are done. So we can't score tries easily. Aslong as we can get down the other end we have aeiral threats. Why it's time to bring Taka in for Sivo. You then have Taka,Blake,Fergo as aerial threats.
Whenever we are 15meters out we just put up a bomb and load that side with these guys..... If we scored 2 tries this way and another a conventional way then it maybe enough to win.
W.Smith on bench also will add so much spark. 20mins from him and Mahoney at end of game running dual threats from dummy half.

Ideally we can rest Jnr,Lane and RCG. Then come finals they play big minutes with Niakuore off bench also getting decent minutes. I wouldn't give to many to KE or Kafusi.

 

[hindy111]

It's an interesting read, and some good points were made...

However, he mentions that we were missing our hooker, and 5/8 - but he fails to mention that we had those same players for the lastv2 months, and struggled to get our attack clicking.

It's nice to say that we should support the team, and I agree with the sentiment - however, highlighting that the side has some serious issues isn’t deathriding the club.

To put some balance into the discussion:

* at one stage, Parramatta were leading the competition

* at one stage, Parramatta's defence was the best in the competition

* at one stage, Parramatta's attack was the sixth best in the competition

Fast forward to current time, and:

* Parramatta are 4th, facing a real possibility of missing out on the topic altogether

* Parramatta's defence is now the 4th best (which is still incredible, but it has dropped a tad)

* Parramatta's attack is 9th best

* Parramatta has the 6th best for and against

It's not doom, and gloom - but there are issues there, plain for everyone to see.

Saying we were missing troops on Friday - which we undoubtedly were - is factual, but a little misleading when discussing our average attack.

I think it's admirable for people to stay positive - hell, I'm proud as hell that we were DOMINATED on Friday night, and only conceded 3 tries -, but I think it's unfair to label people who are concerned that the side has been struggling as negative Nellies.

Winning masks everything - we went through a period where we played quite poorly, and still won more than we lost.

The same issues that were evident two months ago, are still evident now; none of us can say certain (unless we are on the coaching staff) whether it's deliberate, a ploy, or whether the coaching staff just cannot improve the team - but it's a little concerning, as a fan.

I firmly believe that this team - on paper - is good enough to challenge for a title. I genuinely believe that.

But there must be some changes made to address our deficiencies.

At one stage Jnr and RCG where favourites as NSW starting props...
Maybe this is the key. Could both along with LANE be burnt out?

Along with poor starts to the set. Sivo has lost his impact. That is 10-12 sets a game that we may start on back foot due to a poor hit up.

 

[hindy111]

I have a mate who gives me access to special camera angles that the public don’t get to see.

I can let you see them for $500.

Mik strapped a camera to a pigeon and flew it over Penrith stadium. I got the birds eye view.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I firmly believe that this team - on paper - is good enough to challenge for a title. I genuinely believe that.

But there must be some changes made to address our deficiencies.

I believe it's good enough in the sense that it can sneak into the top four (which it probably will) and then is a non-trivial chance of winning three successive finals matches. But I don't think we should be favorites or even close to it. Better tactics would require smarter/more experienced playmakers, and we don't have them. This is the team we have. IMO they're playing as well (as a team) as they can. Some individuals are noticeably worse than last year. Is that the coach's fault? The answer is we don't know. They might be injured, they might be distracted by off field issues. The coach has no control over either of these. And replacing an out of form player with a less talented/experienced option is just shuffling deck chairs. Might as well leave the more talented/experienced player in the team and avoid making things worser.

 

[hindy111]

I believe it's good enough in the sense that it can sneak into the top four (which it probably will) and then is a non-trivial chance of winning three successive finals matches. But I don't think we should be favorites or even close to it. Better tactics would require smarter/more experienced playmakers, and we don't have them. This is the team we have. IMO they're playing as well (as a team) as they can. Some individuals are noticeably worse than last year. Is that the coach's fault? The answer is we don't know. They might be injured, they might be distracted by off field issues. The coach has no control over either of these. And replacing an out of form player with a less talented/experienced option is just shuffling deck chairs. Might as well leave the more talented/experienced player in the team and avoid making things worser.

Who is a better hooker.
Stone or W.Smith?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Smith for sure. But Stone is a better defender.

 

[Eelementary]

I believe it's good enough in the sense that it can sneak into the top four (which it probably will) and then is a non-trivial chance of winning three successive finals matches. But I don't think we should be favorites or even close to it. Better tactics would require smarter/more experienced playmakers, and we don't have them. This is the team we have. IMO they're playing as well (as a team) as they can. Some individuals are noticeably worse than last year. Is that the coach's fault? The answer is we don't know. They might be injured, they might be distracted by off field issues. The coach has no control over either of these. And replacing an out of form player with a less talented/experienced option is just shuffling deck chairs. Might as well leave the more talented/experienced player in the team and avoid making things worser.

No, I agree - we should be nowhere near favourites.

But on paper, at least, our forward pack is very good; our halves have a lot of talent, and skill; and our backs can finish off tries.

We can match most teams on paper - we just need to translate that to the field.

 

[lingard]

Korny you literally said that we didn’t put up a fight against the roosters, unlike Penrith who did.

No, he didn't. He said Penrith would put up a better fight against the Roosters than we did.

 

[Chipmunk]

never want to be overly critical because they might not get an interview

This is the exact reason the mainstream media journalists never seriously investigate many issues (mostly outside of sport) and the public is treated like mushrooms.

 

[hindy111]

Smith for sure. But Stone is a better defender.

Smith made 41 tackle with 1 miss

 

[Eelogical]

The game against the Panthers was a monumental effort, and given the lack of territory, and possession we suffered, I think we can all cut the team's lack of attack a little slack.

After all, few teams are going to pile on points with less than 40% of the ball, and less than 10 tackles in the opposition 20m zone.

Good teams wouldn't put themselves in this position to start with. It's one thing to defend courageously, it's another to be able to counter-attack effectively.

 

[TheParraboy]

Thought the 6 again was officiated diabolically biased towards Penrith

Other than a couple of obvious indiscretions, we were no different to what Penrith were doing

Yet 8-3 to Penrith, and most , if not all theirs called after the 3rd tackle.

We had 3, im pretty sure two were on the first tackle, and the other on the 2nd - so hardly any advantage

 

[strider]

Smith made 41 tackle with 1 miss

Smith isnt a bad defender at all ... i think we are better served with him replacing mahoney when necessary

 

[Eelementary]

Good teams wouldn't put themselves in this position to start with. It's one thing to defend courageously, it's another to be able to counter-attack effectively.

I was absolutely livid when we took the 2 - we had no ball, all game, and we finally get some ball, in their end of the field...and we go for 2?

The only way to even up possession was to take the 6, and either score a try, or force a repeat set.

Instead, we went for a stupid decision - and it seemed that Moses was pushing for the 2 quite vigorously.