Rd8: 8pm EELS v Broncos GAME DAY THREAD @ TIO Stadium - Darwin 21/4/23

[Eelementary]

Only a little? He’s cooked mate. He’s old and doesn’t have the heart anymore. Plus he’s old. The game has left him behind. Did I mention he’s old?

You forgot to mention that he's old.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Only a little? He’s cooked mate. He’s old and doesn’t have the heart anymore. Plus he’s old. The game has left him behind. Did I mention he’s old?

He's younger than DCE.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Because you can’t renegotiate a contract mid-term because he’s playing shit.

He was playing shit when we signed him in mid-2019.

 

[Legal Eel]

I definitely do. If you've got a player consistently isolated in the line he is going to miss tackles.

Anyone who thinks Hodgson is remotely near first grade standard knows nothing about rugby league.

but you know that….this is just another one of your elaborate contrarian trolls

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Sorry to tell you, but your selective posting of tangential stats in all manner of forum threads isn't proving or disproving anything champ.

Well it did and I showed you why. Just like in previous years he has big games and quiet games, but this year his big games have been bigger, hence his career best averages in TB and metres. Ergo, he hasn't been "shit this year" unless you acknowledge he has been just as shit every year.

Yeah... nah. What type of statistician worth their salt tries to explain away their own biases, instead of acknowledge them and learn from them

Except I told you how recency bias had affected my observations, just as it taints yours and the rest of the anti-stats brigade. If our last four games are more relevant to "this year" than our first four games then of course Paulo has been garbage. He missed two weeks and since he returned his output has been down, along with his minutes.

- i.e. learning not to selectively post your irrelevant/tangential stats on here so much?!

I'll keep posting them as long as ignorant, opinionated merkins keep hating them.

 

[TheRam]

So we don't know if he is a student of the game.

Plus of course the Broncos system should be strong but when players are coming out saying the coach has NFI not sure how strong it is..

No we do. I was just being sarcastic.

It has been stated and in glowing terms by some on fox and ch9 that he is and that he watches every game, takes notes works out what he can use and then tells Reynolds what he thinks they should do and work on and they go from there.

Now in contrast, when anyone in the media talks about our gifted number 6 or the Knights number six for that matter all they ever say is that they are casual, happy go lucky kids and that they don't watch games and that they do other stuff, which is what the modern kids of today are like. The players themselves in interviews have said as much, like they are cool and to hip to bother watching the sport that they supposedly fell in love with and played growing up and has given them a job that has made them want for nothing.

Hell who needs to study and work on boring old RL when you have all this natural talent and you are just too cool for cats baby!

Dylan only came out a few weeks ago in the media and said he needs to basically knuckle down and start learning the game more because during games he is missing opportunities. Yeah no sh*t brother? I can't remember which newspaper or article I read it in.

Again compare that to Reece who no matter who you speak to around the game says he works around the clock studying the game watching and learning. The 8th immortal about a month ago on the Sunday footy Show said something like, 'Did you hear that Kalyn?, obviously referring to Ponga, watch the games mate...Pleeease'.

But I don't need to even hear or read all that. If you watch the games after a while you can see which players are putting in extras on and off the field at training and which are not. Like hours a day extra every day both on the training paddock and at home watch video. Not an hour or two after the normal training session a couple of times a week, thinking that that is extras. Remember these guys are paid millions. How many executives that are paid millions keep the relative small ours a week footballers do?

When watching Dylan and Kalyn as examples but there are many others, it is for all their talents, so bleeding obvious that they don't and are not students of the game. If they were for example when Kalyn was playing fullback he would have addressed his inability to play as well on both sides of the field. As for Dylan he has no idea of timing and how to setup his inside or outside men consistently properly. He hasn't worked out as a playmaker how to rope a dope or even count numbers properly. He just basically gets the ball and just runs hard and relies on a dummy and step that all of the RL world has figured out after last year. So what else has he got? At least Moses has a brilliant kicking game that makes him valuable. I suppose Dylan is a great defender, but attacking prowess, at the moment without someone like Lane setting him up Dylbags has got very little.

The great 5/8ths and Halves set up their back rowers and players around them. All this talk that Dylan will shine when Lane comes back, sure he should improve somewhat that is an obvious given, but it is not what Dylan or the team should be relying on. Lane is not the playmaker here, Dylan is. He is the one that should be calling the plays and shots, telling the likes of Lane to go here or be there or play Marilyn or play Jezebel and that sort of thing. He at this stage of his development should have seen sooo many games and poured over sooo much video and trained and adjusted and refined that many plays hundreds if not thousands of times with his back rowers, centres and wingers that that we should all be marveling at his bag of tricks and superb timing and intelligence out their on the field be cause he has the attributes and talent if he applied himself correctly. Instead he is still at times struggling to draw and pass. What a freakin joke.

Like I said, I don't need to hear or read others around the game say that he and many others of his generation don't watch and study the game away from what the coaching staff make them do, it bleeding well shows who does and who doesn't beyond their natural talent. Unfortunately Dylbags and by enlarge our who club don't.

We aren't alone in this it is a real blight that has crept into the game over the last decade or so. I think it is St George that is trying to make it part of there ethos and procedures that the players start watching the full round of games during their time off on the weekends. We should make it mandatory as part of the job specs and requirements of being a Parra player, especially of the million dollar players. How many players don't voluntarily want to do so anyway staggers me.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Anyone who thinks Hodgson is remotely near first grade standard knows nothing about rugby league.

but you know that….this is just another one of your elaborate contrarian trolls

As long as the coach thinks he's "remotely near first grade standard" I'll trust his opinion over a bunch of angry nuffies on a footy forum.

Our problem this year is set completion, which is entirely within our control. The impact is that we are having to do a lot more defending and a lot less attacking than previous years. It could be argued that Hodgson is negatively impacting set completion, but there is no evidence for it other than that he is new to the team and completions are way down on previous years. It could also be Barrett's influence.

 

[yy_cheng]

No we do. I was just being sarcastic.

It has been stated and in glowing terms by some on fox and ch9 that he is and that he watches every game, takes notes works out what he can use and then tells Reynolds what he thinks they should do and work on and they go from there.

Now in contrast, when anyone in the media talks about our gifted number 6 or the Knights number six for that matter all they ever say is that they are casual, happy go lucky kids and that they don't watch games and that they do other stuff, which is what the modern kids of today are like. The players themselves in interviews have said as much, like they are cool and to hip to bother watching the sport that they supposedly fell in love with and played growing up and has given them a job that has made them want for nothing.

Hell who needs to study and work on boring old RL when you have all this natural talent and you are just too cool for cats baby!

Dylan only came out a few weeks ago in the media and said he needs to basically knuckle down and start learning the game more because during games he is missing opportunities. Yeah no sh*t brother? I can't remember which newspaper or article I read it in.

Again compare that to Reece who no matter who you speak to around the game says he works around the clock studying the game watching and learning. The 8th immortal about a month ago on the Sunday footy Show said something like, 'Did you hear that Kalyn?, obviously referring to Ponga, watch the games mate...Pleeease'.

But I don't need to even hear or read all that. If you watch the games after a while you can see which players are putting in extras on and off the field at training and which are not. Like hours a day extra every day both on the training paddock and at home watch video. Not an hour or two after the normal training session a couple of times a week, thinking that that is extras. Remember these guys are paid millions. How many executives that are paid millions keep the relative small ours a week footballers do?

When watching Dylan and Kalyn as examples but there are many others, it is for all their talents, so bleeding obvious that they don't and are not students of the game. If they were for example when Kalyn was playing fullback he would have addressed his inability to play as well on both sides of the field. As for Dylan he has no idea of timing and how to setup his inside or outside men consistently properly. He hasn't worked out as a playmaker how to rope a dope or even count numbers properly. He just basically gets the ball and just runs hard and relies on a dummy and step that all of the RL world has figured out after last year. So what else has he got? At least Moses has a brilliant kicking game that makes him valuable. I suppose Dylan is a great defender, but attacking prowess, at the moment without someone like Lane setting him up Dylbags has got very little.

The great 5/8ths and Halves set up their back rowers and players around them. All this talk that Dylan will shine when Lane comes back, sure he should improve somewhat that is an obvious given, but it is not what Dylan or the team should be relying on. Lane is not the playmaker here, Dylan is. He is the one that should be calling the plays and shots, telling the likes of Lane to go here or be there or play Marilyn or play Jezebel and that sort of thing. He at this stage of his development should have seen sooo many games and poured over sooo much video and trained and adjusted and refined that many plays hundreds if not thousands of times with his back rowers, centres and wingers that that we should all be marveling at his bag of tricks and superb timing and intelligence out their on the field be cause he has the attributes and talent if he applied himself correctly. Instead he is still at times struggling to draw and pass. What a freakin joke.

Like I said, I don't need to hear or read others around the game say that he and many others of his generation don't watch and study the game away from what the coaching staff make them do, it bleeding well shows who does and who doesn't beyond their natural talent. Unfortunately Dylbags and by enlarge our who club don't.

We aren't alone in this it is a real blight that has crept into the game over the last decade or so. I think it is St George that is trying to make it part of there ethos and procedures that the players start watching the full round of games during their time off on the weekends. We should make it mandatory as part of the job specs and requirements of being a Parra player, especially of the million dollar players. How many players don't voluntarily want to do so anyway staggers me.

But then i am guessing lattrell and cody doesn't study the game eithet.

Dyl should be a 1 but then we have a brilliant 1 already.

I was listening to matty johns, who is someone i really agree with on his views, he said, melbourne were soo good because they had cooper who just managed the game and theb 2 naturals in billy and muster who did stuff. He said, cronk had 2 fb to choose from

Of course they had cam who stuck to the gameplan.

Mitch hasnt been able to control the game like cronk, thurston, sterlo just yet but he should now start doing this so then dyl and guth injects themselves when they see opportunities

 

[JokerEel]

DBrowns plan is to stick onto he Left... Unfortunately teams also know this so prepare accordingly.

 

[yy_cheng]

DBrowns plan is to stick onto he Left... Unfortunately teams also know this so prepare accordingly.

We are v predictable until we offload

What ba doesnt realise is that we dont really have the players now for a power game

Our players cant sustain it

Thats why i called for a new coach with a fresh idea.

Even the panfers are changing and shifting the ball more

 

[Chipmunk]

No we do. I was just being sarcastic.

It has been stated and in glowing terms by some on fox and ch9 that he is and that he watches every game, takes notes works out what he can use and then tells Reynolds what he thinks they should do and work on and they go from there.

Now in contrast, when anyone in the media talks about our gifted number 6 or the Knights number six for that matter all they ever say is that they are casual, happy go lucky kids and that they don't watch games and that they do other stuff, which is what the modern kids of today are like. The players themselves in interviews have said as much, like they are cool and to hip to bother watching the sport that they supposedly fell in love with and played growing up and has given them a job that has made them want for nothing.

Hell who needs to study and work on boring old RL when you have all this natural talent and you are just too cool for cats baby!

Dylan only came out a few weeks ago in the media and said he needs to basically knuckle down and start learning the game more because during games he is missing opportunities. Yeah no sh*t brother? I can't remember which newspaper or article I read it in.

Again compare that to Reece who no matter who you speak to around the game says he works around the clock studying the game watching and learning. The 8th immortal about a month ago on the Sunday footy Show said something like, 'Did you hear that Kalyn?, obviously referring to Ponga, watch the games mate...Pleeease'.

But I don't need to even hear or read all that. If you watch the games after a while you can see which players are putting in extras on and off the field at training and which are not. Like hours a day extra every day both on the training paddock and at home watch video. Not an hour or two after the normal training session a couple of times a week, thinking that that is extras. Remember these guys are paid millions. How many executives that are paid millions keep the relative small ours a week footballers do?

When watching Dylan and Kalyn as examples but there are many others, it is for all their talents, so bleeding obvious that they don't and are not students of the game. If they were for example when Kalyn was playing fullback he would have addressed his inability to play as well on both sides of the field. As for Dylan he has no idea of timing and how to setup his inside or outside men consistently properly. He hasn't worked out as a playmaker how to rope a dope or even count numbers properly. He just basically gets the ball and just runs hard and relies on a dummy and step that all of the RL world has figured out after last year. So what else has he got? At least Moses has a brilliant kicking game that makes him valuable. I suppose Dylan is a great defender, but attacking prowess, at the moment without someone like Lane setting him up Dylbags has got very little.

The great 5/8ths and Halves set up their back rowers and players around them. All this talk that Dylan will shine when Lane comes back, sure he should improve somewhat that is an obvious given, but it is not what Dylan or the team should be relying on. Lane is not the playmaker here, Dylan is. He is the one that should be calling the plays and shots, telling the likes of Lane to go here or be there or play Marilyn or play Jezebel and that sort of thing. He at this stage of his development should have seen sooo many games and poured over sooo much video and trained and adjusted and refined that many plays hundreds if not thousands of times with his back rowers, centres and wingers that that we should all be marveling at his bag of tricks and superb timing and intelligence out their on the field be cause he has the attributes and talent if he applied himself correctly. Instead he is still at times struggling to draw and pass. What a freakin joke.

Like I said, I don't need to hear or read others around the game say that he and many others of his generation don't watch and study the game away from what the coaching staff make them do, it bleeding well shows who does and who doesn't beyond their natural talent. Unfortunately Dylbags and by enlarge our who club don't.

We aren't alone in this it is a real blight that has crept into the game over the last decade or so. I think it is St George that is trying to make it part of there ethos and procedures that the players start watching the full round of games during their time off on the weekends. We should make it mandatory as part of the job specs and requirements of being a Parra player, especially of the million dollar players. How many players don't voluntarily want to do so anyway staggers me.

Agree with your thoughts, but again, you need to learn the word succinct.

ChatGPT has helped us all out again. - "TheRam criticizes young rugby league players, particularly Dylan Brown and Kalyn Ponga, for their lack of commitment to studying and improving their game. He notes that while commentators praise players like Reece Walsh for their dedication, media reports suggest that many young players prioritize other activities over studying and watching game footage. TheRam argues that top-paid players should be required to study the game and watch game footage regularly to improve their skills and justify their high salaries."

 

[Happy MEel]

He was playing shit when we signed him in mid-2019.

He was averaging over 100m a game and had his second highest career tackle efficiency of over 85%, which is decent for a centre. Are you making shit up again to suit your argument?

Penrith’s CEO at the time Brian Fletcher was quoted providing further evidence that Waqa was contracted on decent coin with them:

“Ultimately it was a difficult decision to grant Waqa’s release but it will assist the management of our salary cap moving forward.”

(https://www.zerotackle.com/blake-leaves-penrith-to-join-eels-45687/)

If he wasn’t on big coin with them then moving him on wouldn’t make much difference to the management of their cap.

There’s no way he was leaving for less money and we were also coming off a wooden spoon so would more than likely needed to pay overs to get him to move.

Finally, there was this article published in the SMH indicating Waqa was the 3rd highest paid centre in the game at $606,300.

Is your club paying too much for players? Confidential NRL document sheds light on salaries

The Herald has obtained the document the NRL salary cap auditors send clubs to keep agents honest and determine how much they should pay their players.

amp.smh.com.au

That’s plenty more evidence than “because I said so” which seems to be your position.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Our players cant sustain it

The power game is about completing sets and minimising the opposition's time in possession. We don't have the toilers to sustain any other style.

 

[Noise]

The power game is about completing sets and minimising the opposition's time in possession. We don't have the toilers to sustain any other style.

I’m pretty sure every teams goal is about completing sets and minimizing the oppositions possession.

 

[hineyrulz]

He's younger than DCE.

Is DCE bald and had multiple ACL’s??? The bald thing is the most worrying.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

He was averaging over 100m a game and had his second highest career tackle efficiency of over 85%, which is decent for a centre. Are you making shit up again to suit your argument?

He is averaging more metres per game this year ffs. It doesn't mean he is playing well.

Penrith’s CEO at the time Brian Fletcher was quoted providing further evidence that Waqa was contracted on decent coin with them:

“Ultimately it was a difficult decision to grant Waqa’s release but it will assist the management of our salary cap moving forward.”

(https://www.zerotackle.com/blake-leaves-penrith-to-join-eels-45687/)

If he wasn’t on big coin with them then moving him on wouldn’t make much difference to the management of their cap.

It just means he was on more than the minimum salary. A player can be on double the minimum and still be on f**k all. That's only $240k this year. In 2019 it (twice the minimum) was $210k.

There’s no way he was leaving for less money

Which is why the Panthers had to pay him out. They had to pay him out, not us. Whether the payout was frontloaded into two or three years is between them. That's the price they had to pay to get him off the books. We negotiated separately based on what he was worth to us, and as we know, since MON came to the club we have consistently let merkins go than overpay for them.

and we were also coming off a wooden spoon so would more than likely needed to pay overs to get him to move.

He was unwanted by his club and got a payout. And we were mid-table at the time while Penrith was languishing near the bottom.

Finally, there was this article published in the SMH indicating Waqa was the 3rd highest paid centre in the game at $606,300.

Is your club paying too much for players? Confidential NRL document sheds light on salaries

The Herald has obtained the document the NRL salary cap auditors send clubs to keep agents honest and determine how much they should pay their players.

amp.smh.com.au

Journalist/accountants knowing the truth and sharing it with us? Unlikely. Even if it was factual, you'll note that that article included his negotiated payout figure from that year with Penrith, which we have no way of knowing. I just think it's bullshit. There's no reason Penrith would've had to pay stupid money to re-sign Blake, especially being aware of his shortcomings. For the same reason there's no way we would have agreed to match it given he was unwanted by his current club, a known quantity at NRL level, already mid-20s, and playing poorly at the time. O'Neill would have passed unless he was a genuine bargain, like RCG and Moses turned out to be. Obviously, as senior players in consistently good form, neither of them would be bargains these days. Blake in 2019 was more like Simonsson in 2021 - a low demand player in his mid-20s with potential improvement still in him. The difference is Blake was two years older than Simonsson when we signed him, and therefore with less upside.

That’s plenty more evidence than “because I said so” which seems to be your position.

See above, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify my position.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I’m pretty sure every teams goal is about completing sets and minimizing the oppositions possession.

No, some teams are more able (defend your mistakes) and therefore more willing to play higher risk styles. This is reflected in their differing completion rates over 1900+ minutes of football each year.

 

[Happy MEel]

He is averaging more metres per game this year ffs. It doesn't mean he is playing well.

It just means he was on more than the minimum salary. A player can be on double the minimum and still be on f**k all. That's only $240k this year. In 2019 it (twice the minimum) was $210k.

Which is why the Panthers had to pay him out. They had to pay him out, not us. Whether the payout was frontloaded into two or three years is between them. That's the price they had to pay to get him off the books. We negotiated separately based on what he was worth to us, and as we know, since MON came to the club we have consistently let merkins go than overpay for them.

He was unwanted by his club and got a payout. And we were mid-table at the time while Penrith was languishing near the bottom.

Journalist/accountants knowing the truth and sharing it with us? Unlikely. Even if it was factual, you'll note that that article included his negotiated payout figure from that year with Penrith, which we have no way of knowing. I just think it's bullshit. There's no reason Penrith would've had to pay stupid money to re-sign Blake, especially being aware of his shortcomings. For the same reason there's no way we would have agreed to match it given he was unwanted by his current club, unproven in the NRL, and playing poorly at the time. O'Neill would have passed unless he was a genuine bargain, like RCG and Moses turned out to be. Obviously, as senior players, neither of them would be bargains these days. Blake in 2019 was more like Simonsson in 2021 - a low demand player in his mid-20s with potential improvement still in him. The difference is Blake was two years older than Simonsson when we signed him, and therefore with less upside.

See above, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify my position.

Thanks for confirming “because I said/think so” is your only argument. Quality rebuttal.

 

[Noise]

No, some teams are more able (defend your mistakes) and therefore more willing to play higher risk styles. This is reflected in their differing completion rates over 1900+ minutes of football each year.

Which team doesn’t care about completing sets? And which team doesn’t like controlling possession?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Thanks for confirming “because I said/think so” is your only argument. Quality rebuttal.

I've given you plenty of facts. Your argument amounts to "because sports journos said so". We know their agenda.