Recruitment - Newcastle's Version Of " Moneyball "

[antonius]

all of those players you mentioned were not rep players before joining newcastle. we made them into what they were.

get over it guys, we're never going to go into the market and buy rep players. we produce our own, and we're the envy of nearly every club in the NRL for doing so.

cross... has been disappointing. i'll leave it at that.

I didn't say they were, I was pointing out what we've lost and what we replaced them with. I would dispute that we are the envy of every club these days, in the past yes, maybe that's the problem we live in the past.

 

[perverse]

The fact is though Perverse we have all ben saying the same thing every year for several years now,and it hasn't materialised, every year we say next year they will improve and they don't. It's not something that can be fixed overnight. How many threads come on these boards saying we should chase this player or that player? it never happens.

'07 was a write-off from the moment johns' neck went *pop*. any years previous to that are a completely moot point, it was the hagen era... so what we've been saying up until now is largely irrelevant. all that is relevant is the performances on the board this year, the squad we have now, and the squad we'll have next year.

and karma - all those players that you've mentioned bar tupou are in the exact same boat as our blokes. inexperienced. inconsistent. loads of potential. there is no point in replacing things we already have with similar things that we already have.

 

[Karmawave]

The fact is though Perverse we have all ben saying the same thing every year for several years now,and it hasn't materialised, every year we say next year they will improve and they don't. It's not something that can be fixed overnight. How many threads come on these boards saying we should chase this player or that player? it never happens.

And how many years in a row will loyal fans continue to say to each other have faith in what we have currently coming through - they are good enough.

Well clearly they are solid, and passionate, and committed, but they aren't good enough to be at the level we should be expecting.

How many years does this all take? I sat through an ordinary 2007 ( sure there was excuses ), I've sat through an adequate but frustrating 2008, and I sure as hell want to be going to a Knights semi final in 2009. But will it happen?

When do the excuses run out?

A few people here seem to think our players will all of a sudden become worldbeaters while every other NRL team juniors and improving players will not. Improvement has to be expected across the board - at every club.

Does the Knights improvement outimprove the rest of the NRL? I'm not so sure.

Storm don't look like going downhill anytime soon. Eels, Cowboys, Bulldogs can only go one way but up and look well placed for 2009 with player personnel and coaching changes. Warriors always have players coming through every year and have some gun juniors. I mean so many teams should be expecting to improve in 2009 as well. Even the Raiders recruitment for 2009 is better than ours and no one wants to live in Canberra! :lol:

 

[perverse]

I didn't say they were, I was pointing out what we've lost and what we replaced them with. I would dispute that we are the envy of every club these days, in the past yes, maybe that's the problem we live in the past.

most (and i mean most, not all) clubs would absolutely die to have the likes of jarrod mullen, corey paterson, aku uate, james mcmanus (jokes aside, he's been a first grader since his first minute on the field), scotty dureau et al all come through their ranks at once and actually compete in first grade, let alone show the amazing potential that they already have. off the top of my head, only the panthers can boast similar successes in such quick succession.

 

[Karmawave]

and karma - all those players that you've mentioned bar tupou are in the exact same boat as our blokes. inexperienced. inconsistent. loads of potential. there is no point in replacing things we already have with similar things that we already have.

Hannant and Cooper are current state of origin players?

Hannant not only is a current State Of Origin player but he is young too.

I can't see how adding a Ben Hannant to the team isn't a major upgrade on what we have.

Joel Moon is inconsistent, but Darius Boyd would be a top buy!

 

[Karmawave]

off the top of my head, only the panthers can boast similar successes in such quick succession.

Then where are our Lachlan Cootes and Wade Grahams bursting immediately into first grade and dominating from day one? Apart from Jarrod Mullen - who is a genuine superstar in the making - I don't see it in the key areas.

Where are our Anthony Cherrington's ( watch this kid go next year, the Roosters won't even miss Tupou ). Our Tony Williams?

Our front row version of Russell Packer? Will Matthews?

I can't see any players other than possibly Uate who has that immediate class that begs them to be selected in first grade.

Genuine stars step into first grade at 18 and 19 and stay there.

 

[perverse]

And how many years in a row will loyal fans continue to say to each other have faith in what we have currently coming through - they are good enough.

Well clearly they are solid, and passionate, and committed, but they aren't good enough to be at the level we should be expecting.

How many years does this all take? I sat through an ordinary 2007 ( sure there was excuses ), I've sat through an adequate but frustrating 2008, and I sure as hell want to be going to a Knights semi final in 2009. But will it happen?

When do the excuses run out?

A few people here seem to think our players will all of a sudden become worldbeaters while every other NRL team juniors and improving players will not. Improvement has to be expected across the board - at every club.

Does the Knights improvement outimprove the rest of the NRL? I'm not so sure.

Storm don't look like going downhill anytime soon. Eels, Cowboys, Bulldogs can only go one way but up and look well placed for 2009 with player personnel and coaching changes. Warriors always have players coming through every year and have some gun juniors. I mean so many teams should be expecting to improve in 2009 as well. Even the Raiders recruitment for 2009 is better than ours and no one wants to live in Canberra! :lol:

lol, you're just geeing me up now. the eels will only go down from where they are, not up, until they get rid of hages anyway. the cowboys... well they can't help but go up. the dogs have some merit for next year. warriors will still be as inconsistent as they always are until they find some halves with brains. the storm are already on their way down due to the salary cap and will continue that descent next year too. you cannot possibly tell me that melbourne this year are the team they were last year. they have lost their aura of invincibility this time. they are starting to look vulnerable.

why does improvement have to be expected across the board? some teams get worse, some teams improve. the salary cap... retirements... many factors contribute to this.

 

[Adsy]

Then where are our Lachlan Cootes and Wade Grahams bursting immediately into first grade and dominating from day one? Apart from Jarrod Mullen - who is a genuine superstar in the making - I don't see it in the key areas.

Seriously what have Wade Graham done in FG that Dureau hasn't. The kid is a speed hump.

 

[Serc]

Taia is doing fine...looking like quite the NRL standard backrower that most clubs would be happy with these days!

I don't see where a player like Sammut would come into the frame for us...I think he is mainly a fullback, but have seen him play on the wing and in the halves. For all those reasons he would do no better here as we have some pretty good players in those positions that would keep him out of the team.

I'll start making negative posts if we look just like this come this time next year, but for the meantime I haven't got a real reason to complain. Who'd have thought we could knock off (or at least challenge) top teams already without Johns, Buderus, Simpson etc?

Think of how well we would've gone last year with our team of young'uns + the cast offs minus the injury toll but with Johns lasting the whole season to make us look good...not top 4 material but we would've made the 8 just like in 06.

 

[perverse]

Then where are our Lachlan Cootes and Wade Grahams bursting immediately into first grade and dominating from day one? Apart from Jarrod Mullen - who is a genuine superstar in the making - I don't see it in the key areas.

Where are our Anthony Cherrington's ( watch this kid go next year, the Roosters won't even miss Tupou ). Our Tony Williams?

Our front row version of Russell Packer? Will Matthews?

I can't see any players other than possibly Uate who has that immediate class that begs them to be selected in first grade.

Genuine stars step into first grade at 18 and 19 and stay there.

lachlan coote and wade graham are massive talents.. but have their own issues. if you were a panthers fan you would have been absolutely frying them after the knights match, much like you do with dureau every time he has a poor game. they were complete turnstiles in that match, completely monstered by our forwards... and completely ineffective in attack. it is the same for every young rookie. go and ask parra fans what they think of tony williams now that the dust has settled after his debut. he has been shown up to be largely a fraud.

the fact is, you only point out the things you want to point out, because it is convenient to your opinion. all the players you've just mentioned have actually had very similar first grade careers to one scott dureau thus far... very hot and cold. inconsistency is absolutely expected of a young football player... or rather consistency is something that is gained through experience and time.

 

[Serc]

Joel Moon is inconsistent, but Darius Boyd would be a top buy!

Boyd was a bit of a turd until this year...any one of our backs could become decent just like him next year ;-)

 

[perverse]

rofl.. and another thing... if genuine stars walk into first grade and stay there... why is jarrod sammut having such a tough time holding down a first grade position at penrith behind the likes of brad tighe?

 

[perverse]

Boyd was a bit of a turd until this year...any one of our backs could become decent just like him next year ;-)

turd is an understatement. i didn't rate boyd one iota until this year. he was absolutely average.

 

[Karmawave]

I understand that Perverse 100%.

But we are talking about kids who are 18, ( in some cases 17 ), 19, and eligible to play Under 20's.

Scott Dureau ( who you mentioned, not me )has at least 3 years of age on the players I mentioned.

It is more our future front rowers, our future outside backs. When and where are our 18, 19 , 20 year olds future star centres and front rowers coming from? Do they debut at 21 like Dureau? Leaving behind the 3 years of experience the 18, 19 year olds at other clubs are getting already by playing first grade right now?

One centre who was a real option for next year was Jared Edwards, but there's talk he is off to Canberra! Even the best of our crop - the most first grade ready of the lot - can't even be retained at the club!

 

[Jono078]

I don't know what everyone expects with the salary cap and players going elsewhere for money.

The whole league has suffered because of it and you'll find each team has 1-3 less stars than it did say 4 years ago.

Also not to mention the Titans coming and and stretching the player depth even more.

 

[Karmawave]

rofl.. and another thing... if genuine stars walk into first grade and stay there... why is jarrod sammut having such a tough time holding down a first grade position at penrith behind the likes of brad tighe?

Out of all the backline positions Sammut can play, centre would be the least obvious option in first grade for Jarrod Sammut - which is where Tighe has been playing most of the year. I've never seen Sammut play centre ever.

Tighe has been playing some pretty good footy this year too! Excelling away from Brian Smith one might say? :lol: Doing a Josh Perry?

On top of that, JS, is definitely not Matt Elliott's favourite while ever he has that bit of lair in him.

 

[Yosh]

Come on Karma last year we had the world's best player go down and out and considering he was our only game plan we doing pretty well at the moment. We got rid of alot of deadwood, signed decent this year and probably at the end of the year we will cut some more the deadwood and sign a couple of guys probably a little better then the bunch we signed this year.

That Jarrod Summut guy is garbage, full stop Duearu sh*ts on him in terms of ability, Sammut is pretty fast but has nothing but that the skill level shown by Duearu already has me confidently convinced he is going to be a great FG player in the future.

Boyd and Moon are garbage... Hannet I would like to have here but oh well too late... De Gois could be the buy of 09 for we know at the moment...

 

[Karmawave]

That Jarrod Summut guy is garbage, full stop Duearu sh*ts on him in terms of ability, Sammut is pretty fast but has nothing but that the skill level shown by Duearu already has me confidently convinced he is going to be a great FG player in the future.

Boyd and Moon are garbage... Hannet I would like to have here but oh well too late... De Gois could be the buy of 09 for we know at the moment...

I dunno, I'd prefer a Sammut/Mullen combo anyday of the week, but hey, we all have opinions.

There's no harm in signing someone like a Sammut/Taumata to add to our halves depth and keep the pressure on, especially when Sammut can cover multiple positions including fullback when Gidley is on rep duty ( better than Naiqama could ). I mean the blokes not off contract anyway, there was just rumours he might become available due to being unhappy at Penrith. Worth exploring I reckon.

One overpaid reserve grader by the name of Luke Walsh might be preventing any chance we have of doing much anyway.

If Boyd is garbage, I shudder to think what you must think about Mad Dog and Naiqama as our centres!

Your comment on Hannant is exactly my point. " Too late now ". Why did we not make a play? We weren't even rumoured to be in the hunt for him, or any other big name ( apart from Tupou ) for that matter.

De Gois is a great buy no doubt, and has been in great form. But he has some massive shoes to fill all the same doesn't he?

 

[perverse]

I dunno, I'd prefer a Sammut/Mullen combo anyday of the week, but hey, we all have opinions.

There's no harm in signing someone like a Sammut/Taumata to add to our halves depth and keep the pressure on, especially when Sammut can cover multiple positions including fullback when Gidley is on rep duty ( better than Naiqama could ). I mean the blokes not off contract anyway, there was just rumours he might become available due to being unhappy at Penrith. Worth exploring I reckon.

One overpaid reserve grader by the name of Luke Walsh might be preventing any chance we have of doing much anyway.

If Boyd is garbage, I shudder to think what you must think about Mad Dog and Naiqama as our centres!

Your comment on Hannant is exactly my point. " Too late now ". Why did we not make a play? We weren't even rumoured to be in the hunt for him, or any other big name ( apart from Tupou ) for that matter.

De Gois is a great buy no doubt, and has been in great form. But he has some massive shoes to fill all the same doesn't he?

had cross stepped up this year we wouldn't even be considering why we missed out on hannant. we have so much depth in the back row that topou would have also been wasted cash. boyd WAS rubbish up until this year!

i would be very keen on taumata if we could sign him. as you said he'd be great halves depth, and his running game is his real asset... which would make him a possibility as a gun centre too.

 

[Jono078]

What the hell do you mean by that last line Karma? Did you expect us to go sign someone like Cameron Smith to replace Buderus easily?

Boyd is still sh*t IMO, he wouldnt be a center at most clubs I dont think.