Recruitment - Newcastle's Version Of " Moneyball "

[Karmawave]

well keep starting them!

I will, I will, it just takes a little time to keep coming up with original material ;-)

Feel free to get in on the act Macca!

 

[Karmawave]

If Canberra is fair dinkum, and sack Todd Carney, what chances the Knights take him on like Junior Sau? :lol:

 

[Adsy]

F**k. I'm all up for that signing.

Future NSW Halves - Carney/ Mullen combo.

 

[macavity]

buckleys has a better shot.

although I will let him pee on Adsy's leg if he signs with us.

 

[Adsy]

I'd probably pee on my own leg if we sign him.

 

[Karmawave]

Reeks of double standards doesn't it :lol:

If the NRL are for real about cleaning up the image, they have to back up the clubs and deregister the player if they are fair dinkum.

Won't happen though. Probably end up playing with Penrith.

 

[macavity]

if he is not charged, what can they (the NRL) do? seriously?

 

[Jono078]

If Carney gets sacked there will be about 13 clubs after him lol.

I can't see him coming here.

Would be unreal though to have

6 Mullen
7 Carney

 

[Karmawave]

2009 scares me.

Talk in another thread of our team for 2009 has left me thinking about our recruiting and our line up for next season.

With very little recruitment being done so far, we have exactly the same squad for 2009 as we have to choose from now except instead of Danny Buderus we have Isaac De Gois. We also lose Chris Bailey.

Now while Isaac De Gois is a good player he is no Buderus, and its fair to say that our overall Top 25 talent will be less next year than what it is currently.

If we cannot make the semi finals this year, what are the realistic chances of doing so next year with a worse squad?

Unless some of our juniors step up over the offseason and become overnight first grade stars ( which I doubt ), its hard to be optimistic about 2009.

I mean if we all adopt the "Dureau attitude " to our juniors that players need time to develop as first graders in 2009, does that make 2009 yet another rebuilding year?

Frankly, that's the point of my thread here, and if we cannot make the semi finals with our 2008 squad, why will we make the semi finals with a squad devoid of Danny Buderus in 2009 with little or no recruiting outside players?

I'm sick of " rebuilding ", it's bullsh*t.

 

[perverse]

karma - do you, or do you not believe that you can just throw whichever players you want together... and they will play to their potential as a team from day 1, or even year 1?

when you answer that question, you should have your answers.

 

[Karmawave]

karma - do you, or do you not believe that you can just throw whichever players you want together... and they will play to their potential as a team from day 1, or even year 1?

when you answer that question, you should have your answers.

It is our junior depth and overall 2009 squad strength when you take away our player losses and add to them our player gains that I am speaking of.

Not so much the "combinations ".

Unless the coaching staff has some massive amount of confidence in our own juniors for first grade 2009, in my opinion we look very thin and devoid of semi final talent.

Watching the juniors this year, there is a handful that may be first grade potential ( one of which is rumoured to be heading to Canberra ), and the majority a bunch of busteds :lol:

 

[perverse]

yes, the junior situation is a concern... but the top squad (in my opinion) will improve greatly, even in buderus' absence (sh*t.. i never thought i'd say that).

the juniors are a different kettle of fish altogether that i too am pretty worried about. injuries may hurt a bit next year... then again on individual talent we may just have the depth to cover. it will be an interesting off season, that's for sure.

 

[Adsy]

Here is a list of players who we will have next season and are still improving - Gidley, Uate, McManus, Vuna, Mullen, Dureau, De Gois, Patterson, Houstan, Wicks, Ciraldo, Taia. Not to mention players from the Under 20's.

If someone is a stat wiz id like to know their total amount of first grade games played when you take out Kurt. Then you have guys like Cross, Simpson and Hilder who have missed a lot of games this year.

We have also lost ALOT of close games this year whilst scoring the same amount of tries as our opposition. Like the Sharks last year.

So I don't think 09 looks as bleak as you're making it out to be Karma.

 

[Karmawave]

Here is a list of players who we will have next season and are still improving - Gidley, Uate, McManus, Vuna, Mullen, Dureau, De Gois, Patterson, Houstan, Wicks, Ciraldo, Taia. Not to mention players from the Under 20's.

I can't see Houston, Wicks and Ciraldo getting any better than what they are now, though they can't get much worse either. Add In Taia, he was already a discard from the Eels, and we might have already squeezed as much as we could out of his talent.

Counter your list with key big name yet ageing players like Ben Cross, Steve Simpson.

Throw in a guy like Wes Naiqama who has plenty of first grade experience now and unlikely to get all that much better.

I don't know, its far from being dire straights, but it isn't Top 4 here we come either is it.

I'm just sick of the mediocrity and the thought of " rebuilding " for one more season.

I give you the Bulldogs as an example. They have had a sh*t 2008, but to go with some gun juniors, they have made signings that gives every Bulldogs fan reason to be excited about 2009.

I just don't see anything being added that gets me excited about 2009.

Nothing at all.

We rely on natural improvement, and our juniors.

Every team will have natural improvement, and that alone isn't enough to keep pace with the big guns.

 

[TooheysNew]

Quick question Karma, who would you have signed to improve the situation.

 

[antonius]

Realstically Newcastles recruitment has been poor for several years now. We have lost so many quality players and replaced them with ordinary rejects from other clubs, or the best in the real NRL (which in all honesty have not cut the mustard) to the point now where we have a team made up (mostly) of also rans from other clubs. We've lost players like Tahu, Kennedy, M Gidley, O'Davis, Johns, Butterfield,not to mention players that time has caught up with ie:- Doogs, Simmo, Hughes, Albert and so on. We have gone from a team chock full of rep players to a side that is mediocre. Face it Wicks, Houston, Ciraraldo, Fas etc, etc, are not world beaters and I don't see them becoming world beaters, even our "star" signing Cross is not someone I'm over the moon about. they are the newReynolsons, Tanners,Lowries, and so on. As Karma points out, next year looks no better recruitment wise. I don't know what the issue here at the Knights is, but for years we have been very reluctant to recruit quality, it's not that they haven't been available, just that we haven't gone after them.

 

[perverse]

tbh karma you're going back to dribble again. houso is an absolute screaming talent. all he needs to do is work on his discipline and he'll be pushing for rep honours. wicks and ciraldo i will give you - however wicks in particular also offers miles of unrealised potential. ciraldo is a dud.

we're in a similar situation to what the raiders have been struggling with for a looong time... and we look like we're going to turn it around much, much quicker than they did. the fact of the matter is we are by far the most inexperienced club in the comp, both as individuals with first grade caps... and as a team and combination wise. the fact that you expect us to be dominate in such a situation is laughable. the fact that we haven't been belted by a single team this year shows the character and talent that the squad does possess, it just isn't coming together at the moment. i'm absolutely confident that the squad we have can take us a long way... and with maybe the addition of one more quality outside back (although that back could even be uate at this stage) we could rise all the way to the top.

 

[perverse]

Realstically Newcastles recruitment has been poor for several years now. We have lost so many quality players and replaced them with ordinary rejects from other clubs, or the best in the real NRL (which in all honesty have not cut the mustard) to the point now where we have a team made up (mostly) of also rans from other clubs. We've lost players like Tahu, Kennedy, M Gidley, O'Davis, Johns, Butterfield,not to mention players that time has caught up with ie:- Doogs, Simmo, Hughes, Albert and so on. We have gone from a team chock full of rep players to a side that is mediocre. Face it Wicks, Houston, Ciraraldo, Fas etc, etc, are not world beaters and I don't see them becoming world beaters, even our "star" signing Cross is not someone I'm over the moon about. they are the newReynolsons, Tanners,Lowries, and so on. As Karma points out, next year looks no better recruitment wise. I don't know what the issue here at the Knights is, but for years we have been very reluctant to recruit quality, it's not that they haven't been available, just that we haven't gone after them.

all of those players you mentioned were not rep players before joining newcastle. we made them into what they were.

get over it guys, we're never going to go into the market and buy rep players. we produce our own, and we're the envy of nearly every club in the NRL for doing so.

cross... has been disappointing. i'll leave it at that.

 

[Karmawave]

Quick question Karma, who would you have signed to improve the situation.

I would have made a play for one of the young Brisbane outside backs coming off contract at least. A Darius Boyd, or maybe even a Joel Moon. Boyd able to cover multiple outside back positions, and Moon also being a multiple position outside back with as well as a potential 5/8 and adding to the halves depth.

That is of course if Matt Cooper was never a realistic option. If we can count on an ageing Mad Dog in 2008, I'm sure we could use an ageing Matt Cooper in 2009.

Above all though, I'd be looking at potential halves. Arana Taumata is an option that is apparently being explored. Not necessarily the answer, but nice to know. I am unsure of all the young halfbacks coming off contract, but I am sure he isn't the only one.

Anthony Tupou might have landed here if Brian Smith wasn't coach, and sure we have alot of excess backrowers, but how many are true quality?

In addition to that, another class front rower like Ben Hannant, Jeff Lima might have been nice, especially given some of our front rowers from this season may not be here next season.

I think a Hannant or Lima would have been an upgrade over what we have currently. As good as our front rowers this year have been, they have probably punched a bit above their weight.

I'd also be exploring if Jarrod Sammut will all of a sudden become available from Penrith. There is talk he isn't happy there, and with their young guns coming through, Penrith might be trying to find another home for him to clear some cap space.

I wish I had the entire list of off contract players in front of me, but that's just a few off the top of my head that I feel we should have really had a crack at.

 

[antonius]

tbh karma you're going back to dribble again. houso is an absolute screaming talent. all he needs to do is work on his discipline and he'll be pushing for rep honours. wicks and ciraldo i will give you - however wicks in particular also offers miles of unrealised potential. ciraldo is a dud.

we're in a similar situation to what the raiders have been struggling with for a looong time... and we look like we're going to turn it around much, much quicker than they did. the fact of the matter is we are by far the most inexperienced club in the comp, both as individuals with first grade caps... and as a team and combination wise. the fact that you expect us to be dominate in such a situation is laughable. the fact that we haven't been belted by a single team this year shows the character and talent that the squad does possess, it just isn't coming together at the moment. i'm absolutely confident that the squad we have can take us a long way... and with maybe the addition of one more quality outside back (although that back could even be uate at this stage) we could rise all the way to the top.

The fact is though Perverse we have all ben saying the same thing every year for several years now,and it hasn't materialised, every year we say next year they will improve and they don't. It's not something that can be fixed overnight. How many threads come on these boards saying we should chase this player or that player? it never happens.