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Recruitment - Newcastle's Version Of " Moneyball "

Karmawave

Bench
Messages
4,950
Is Trent Robinson the right coach to handle their talent?

Rip Taylor is an exceptional coach, and is probably overlooked by many Knights fans as being a really big loss for the Knights when he followed Hagan to the Eels.
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
26,766
the lower division coaching at the knights has me pretty worried at the moment. toyota cup especially.
 

Karmawave

Bench
Messages
4,950
Yes, has me concerned too.

I know people here bag Hagan and all that stuff, but the bigger picture wasn't as good - losing Rip Taylor with Hagan was a massive loss to our coaching staff at the Knights.
 

Karmawave

Bench
Messages
4,950
"Who the gods wish to destroy first they call promising."
-Cyril Connolly, Enemies of Promise. Quoted in Moneyball.
 
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Karmawave

Bench
Messages
4,950
Well the with is meant to be interpreted as wish, but its old Shakespeare type speak I guess.

:lol: yes, it's meant to be wish ;-)

Editing now.
 

roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
Is Trent Robinson the right coach to handle their talent?

Rip Taylor is an exceptional coach, and is probably overlooked by many Knights fans as being a really big loss for the Knights when he followed Hagan to the Eels.
It's been a funny year in NYC under Trent - the complete opposite of 2006 under Rip.
In 2006 Rip settled on his team in the trials and tried hard to stick with the same players all season. He had some massive decisions to make, the biggest being his star player, Nathan Berry, dropped out pre season and he had to fill the slot with the previous year's fullback who was coming back from a knee reconstruction and seemed keen to do anything asked of him (Terrence), then he had to fill fullback with a lock forward named Wooden who had always been a bench forward because he wasn't big enough, but the guy had some running skills. Anyway, Rip came up with some radical selections that all worked well - he did it pre season and stuck with the same side all year barring injuries and promotions to PL.

Trent hasn't had to worry about players being promoted, but if you take the players he used in the trials and during the season he has used nearly 50 players and the guys who have only played one position would be about 3 or 4 props and Simon Williams - everyone else has been shuffled all over the field, some guys like Paulsen and Hurrell have played 4 positions in 4 weeks at times.
Mid season Trent seems to have decided 'ok, that's the team' and we haven't had more than a few injury forced changes for 5 weeks or so, and the side has played better every game since that day. He has basically sacked last year's NSW under 19s players Owen and Dobbins, who both still look great to me, and forced Callan to switch to the forwards to get a run - the same Callan who was the best junior in the game at under 17 level.
Anyway, the side Trent has settled on is very young and talented. If he now has a side he is happy with and will go on with the same guys next season he could turn most of them into firstgraders and we could have a great season next year. You could say he has thrown reputations out the window and given 50 guys a chance to impress in every possible position - but i keep thinking Jake Jenkinson, Dobbins, Richardson, Tyren Mundine, and several others who were developing nicely have been thrown to the wolves by Robinson.
 

Adsy

Juniors
Messages
2,054
I remember seeing O'niel playing for Wyong the other year. Shadow of the player who was lighting dolphins on fire and crapping in shoes.
 

Karmawave

Bench
Messages
4,950
How much of Trent Robinson's reshuffling has been due to the supposed ' halfback rotation system ' Brian Smith introduced to the club?
 

roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
How much of Trent Robinson's reshuffling has been due to the supposed ' halfback rotation system ' Brian Smith introduced to the club?
The only way any of his changes this year make sense is if he was playing trials right up till mid season and was seeing just what every kid could do.

Weirdly - the guy i would try everywhere from fullback to halfback to see just where he can play the best, Peter Mata'utai, has just been on the wing.
 
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K-Man

Bench
Messages
3,171
This thread is a great read.

I agree with you Karma, to a certain extent anyway.

I have the same concerns but would prefer to see a slightly different approach. I'd rather pick up say 2 more genuinely classy, regular first-graders that would walk into most teams in the comp - as opposed to just one more big, big name.

I feel like our side is absolutely tip-toeing on the edge of being top 4, but there are a few holes that need to be filled.

The biggest is in the outside backs. They simply aren't good enough. I believe our 2-5 are close to the weakest in the competition.

A top class centre is a massive priority, and I don't understand why we haven't been in the market for one. There are none left now, but there were at the start of the year.

And Mullen has to be played consistently at five-eighth. Find a halfback we are happy with (if it's Dureau, pick him at 7 every match and let's get it happening, otherwise look elswewhere).

The rest of the side is a nucleus for a very strong team.

1. Gidley
3. Any good centre (Collis, Cooper, Lawrence, Pomeroy, Jennings etc)
6. Mullen
7. Dureau in form and at full potential/a solid proven organising halfback but doesn't need to be a superstar
12. Simpson
11. Paterson
10. Cross
9. Hilder

14. De Gois
15. Fa'oso

I'm happy with that, and the other average - solid players are more than capable of doing the job.

But we should be more active in the player market. I would've made a play for Matt Cooper, and partner him with Uate. That could've been a quality combination.
Then McManus on the other side of the field with Vuna/Sau/Naiqama.

I like our forwards. I don't care if they aren't a bunch of big names - they are getting the job done, they are eating up metres and have off-loads in their game. They are mostly pretty solid defensively. They have variety with the flair of a Paterson, the grunt of Cross and Simpson, the solid consistency of a Tolar, and the get-the-hell-outta-my-way Fa'oso.

More class and more depth from 1 to 7, that's what we should be spending money on.

We have paid over the last few years for L.Macdougall, Vuna, Lulia, Sau, Naiqama... no matter what their contracts are worth individually, that's a fair amount of money spent on outside backs, and for what???

You could blindold me and get me to cut 3 of those players completely at random and replace them with a player like Jennings and our club would be better for it.

Bargain basement purchases with good coaching and determination can be succesful in the forwards, NOT in the backs.
 

Adsy

Juniors
Messages
2,054
Bargain basement purchases with good coaching and determination can be succesful in the forwards, NOT in the backs.

Agree with you 100% K-Man. I don't see the point in buying average backs from other clubs.

Really there is enough talent at Newcastle already to make a half decent back line but we need that one special centre or winger.

The link between Gidley-Mullen-Bederus needs one extra piece when they head the attack towards the edges. The likes of a Hodges or Inglis added to our backline would just send our attack through the roof.
 

reginald.p

Juniors
Messages
208
Obviously any club would love to sign a player like Hodges or Inglis, but to be bluntly honest why on earth would Inglis or Hodges ever want to play here? They would have to move houses move away from everyone they know, move to a brand new city where they don't know anyone. Leave clubs with great facilities and great coaches, who are premiership contenders every year to move out to Newcastle who are struggling mid table.

We couldn't even offer them much more money, they would already be on close to 400k a year which is about the most you could offer them without paying overs.
If they wanted more money they would go to rugby union and make 1 million a season not come to Newcastle. Of course if we ever did sign them i would be stoked but the chances of that are very low.
 

Karmawave

Bench
Messages
4,950
This is what a forum thread is all about. Round of applause for all involved :lol:

Great thoughts from everyone. I wish there were more threads like this around here instead of just responding to newspaper links.
 

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