What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Red V Forum

hardbaby

Coach
Messages
16,720
I'm loving all the media attention at the moment. Drastic times call for drastic measures and as painful as it is to read this stuff in the media, it is exactly the sort of stuff that a Board has to respond to. I have no doubt there are club employees that read this forum and they know we are pissed off but the more mainstream attention this situation gets, the more likely they are to react. This must be highly embarassing.

Doust is a good administrater in many ways but we do have a "jobs for the boys" mentality and it must stop. We need the best that money can buy and the solutions lie outside our club. Doust and Price need to go.
 

watatank

Coach
Messages
14,131
THE lift door opens on to the second floor of St George Leagues club and you're greeted by the angriest group of fans in the NRL.

Your columnist has purchased a $55 three-game Red V membership package to get access to rugby league's most fanatical supporter group and their annual forum, which has been running since 2002.

We wait outside the Heritage Room for a Monday night 7pm kick-off, a couple of irate members making it clear my presence was not welcome.

Two hours later and much has been revealed about the problems confronting the once great club that is now fighting to avoid the wooden spoon.

Complaints range between the performance of coach Steve Price to CEO Peter Doust, the departure of Jamie Soward, recruitment, the quality of caps in merchandise supporter packs, the size of a McDonald's sign at Kogarah Oval, ticket prices and game scheduling.

THE LOYALTY

Mark Molloy is the most fanatical, passionate and loyal fan I've ever met.

He's 42, lives in Greystanes and works as a storeman.

For 20 years he's been to every Dragons home and away game, barring the one he reluctantly missed in 2004 for a good mate's engagement party. He's even dirtier now because that marriage didn't last.

His support has taken him to Wigan (World Club Challenge), Melbourne, Canberra, Auckland, Perth, Adelaide, Cairns, Townsville, Gold Coast and every suburban ground in Sydney.

Every year Mark organises his holidays and RDOs around the Dragons' schedule to ensure he can get to every single game.

We meet outside before the forum starts.

"I don't want to bag off on anyone," he says.

"I've stuck up for the club for more than 20 years.

"Still, I was disgusted that Jamie Soward left. I've never bagged the club but it's becoming a bit of rabble right now."

We catch up again on the way out.

"It just hurts me that this great club with the famous Red V could potentially end up with the wooden spoon," he says. "That should never belong to St George. Am I happy what we got out of tonight? Well, you're not a fan if you don't stick by them."

THE COACH

You get the impression that Price is no certainty to be there next season.

"The coaching job is always being evaluated," Doust says. "We're not happy with the team's performance at the moment. We never, ever accept performances like recently.

"It's no good having a situation if the performances are so bad it has an impact on revenue so much that you lose your perspective as far as the business is concerned. Nothing has been resolved for 2014, contrary to speculation."

If you asked for a show of hands of support for Steve Price, he'd be flat out having 10 per cent of the membership onside, judging by the general mood inside the forum.

Although one lady chimes in: "He's not telling them to go out and drop the ball and miss tackles. Give him a go."

JAMIE SOWARD

A fan calls out from the back of the room.

"He's scoring more points in England than our entire team can score."

Doust explains why the club allowed him to leave, confirming my Daily Telegraph report at the time that he had lost the support of some senior players.

"It not all about his performances on the field," he tells the members. "There were some off-field training matters that needed to be addressed.

"In essence, the standard set by our coaching staff and senior player were not being met.

"Application to team goals was a particular issue. Mid-season transfers are difficult for everyone but at the end of the day he requested a release."

ONFIELD LEADERSHIP

Questions are raised about Ben Creagh's captaincy following the retirement of Ben Hornby and Dean Young. A fan says: "There's no leadership, he's not motivating anyone."

Doust hits back, although admitting he's anything but the team's on-field general like most skippers.

"Ben's doing a great job," Doust says, "He's our club captain. He was never going to be the on-field leader of the team. You need the forwards going forward and the halfback leading the team around the field.

"I don't think it's right to criticise Benny Creagh.

"He's not the one required to call the plays."

Wendell Sailor grabs the microphone. He's upset at the Creagh question.

"No one is hurting more than Ben Creagh. I see him in the sheds after the game. He's shattered," Sailor says. "Everyone's got to be accountable, but I wouldn't be questioning Ben Creagh."

RECRUITMENT

Members are told the club is deep in negotiations with Origin fullback Josh Dugan and his manager for an extension beyond this year.

Still, finding a halfback is the priority. There is a rumour circulating that Warriors whiz-kid Shaun Johnson is the player they want.

Doust too makes no secret of the fact the club wants Josh Morris back from the Bulldogs.

"Wayne (Bennett) let him go, believing he was a winger, not a centre," he says. "I think we all look back now and wish he hadn't done that.

"Josh is a local junior; it goes without saying that we'd be interested in him returning to the Dragons."

It's then revealed the club recently made an unsuccessful mid-year swoop on Warriors utility Feleti Mateo.

HALFBACK ISSUE

The Dragons have struggled here since Ben Hornby's early retirement. Doust reveals the club last year offered Storm champion Cooper Cronk the richest contract in the club's history to try to persuade him to quit Melbourne.

"We've got a list of every halfback in the game of rugby league in every country," he says. "Cooper Cronk came off contract and we made the most significant application for his signature that we've ever made, even considering this guy (pointing to Mark Gasnier) and others.

"We wanted the best but didn't get him."

He reveals the club tried to sign Immortal Andrew Johns as a halfback coach but couldn't get him out of Manly.

PETER DOUST

The CEO finds himself under fire as much as the coach. He faces some seriously demanding questions.

"Do you, Mr Doust, believe you're stuck in the '60s and the game has passed you?" one fan asks.

And another question: "We miss the finals for three consecutive years - are you prepared to step down?"

The answer to both questions is no. Doust is a busy man with a bigger workload and responsibility than any other club CEO in the game.

"I'm not selecting the team but I'm accountable to the board of directors like any CEO of any business," he says.

"I'm not prepared to just give up on the people who are out there doing the best they can for our club."


THE LAST WORD

Not everyone is here to be critical of the team.

We've been here now or more than two hours. The last speaker is a long-time fan - a female, who has no question to ask, but wants her feelings to be known.

"I am as frustrated as anyone in this room," she starts. "I left the ground 10 minutes early on Saturday and went home and watched the rugby Test. We have Steve Price as coach, whether we're happy with him or not.

"We have to make the best of what we have. If we put young players up from the lower grades we will be doing them a great disservice because they'll get beaten by even more. If I was one of the players or Steve Price sitting in this room this evening I would feel absolutely humiliated and worthless.

"I think we have to make our players feel we fully support them. I believe they are doing their best.

"If they can walk off and say we tried our best and we'll try even harder next week, that's all we can ask for.

"So please, get behind the team. They need our support and I firmly believe they'll come good."
 
Messages
1,564
...on the last comment by the well intending woman.

"....we have to make the best of what we have?" This has been my criticism of the current coaching situation. Why buy them better Players when they can't make (anywhere near) the best of what they've got to work with now?. I've seen good players go backwards over the last 12-18 months because of repeated mistakes and failure in leadership.

She's right, we've got to stick by our team (although that comes from someone who left a game early) Simply, the best was to stick by our team, is to change the coaching situation as soon as possible.

the rest of the article I think is good too.
 

saint.nick

Coach
Messages
19,401
I'm loving all the media attention at the moment. Drastic times call for drastic measures and as painful as it is to read this stuff in the media, it is exactly the sort of stuff that a Board has to respond to. I have no doubt there are club employees that read this forum and they know we are pissed off but the more mainstream attention this situation gets, the more likely they are to react. This must be highly embarassing.

Doust is a good administrater in many ways but we do have a "jobs for the boys" mentality and it must stop. We need the best that money can buy and the solutions lie outside our club. Doust and Price need to go.

Well for some weird reason, this article made me smile. It paints us as a fiercely passionate and fiery group of people who support an iconically famous organisation. Ive sat with the army a few times, and I love it when fans not sitting in the army look towards us with grins, expressions of interest and laughs as they watch us chant and bag off rival fans, especially at the Tigers SGG game, when a Tigers bogan knob got up at us, and was then joined by a random Raiders merkin.

I can't believe that woman who backed Price, stood up and blamed on field performance solely on the players. Her reason for backing Price showed she obviously has no frikken idea. I partly agree with the last woman, but I disagree that juniors shouldn't be experimented, especially at a stage where we have nothing to lose. It's called development, and showed she doesn't have much of an idea eiher. But it's a bit hypocritical of her to say the players need 100% full support in spite of her statement that she left the ground 10 minutes early. And yes ma'am, the players and coach would be humiliated if they sat in that room, but ultimately, the truth hurts.

I'm happy with the media exposure of the club's problems, but the particular part of of this article which made me happy was the high standing that he put saints fans in, and his recognisation of how mighty the club is.
 

dragondonar1

Juniors
Messages
275
When ruciman Quinlan and garvey got interviewed they were over the moon in playing first grade even though the result never went their way. I think play juniors because the problem with the side is we have too many chiefs and not enough indians ready to work hard for each other. This is due to the couch and play makers not controlling the team.
So yes support the team but people in control have to be accountable. If they can't then put in players that will do all they can to stay in the team.
 
Messages
1,564
...yes, it IS good to read about our plight in mainstream media.

The problems brewing have largely gone under the radar up unitl now, I guess partly because no-body really thought it could happen to us (including fans other than Dragons), and for some reason the media has adopted a very gentle approach with Steve Price himself up until now. I think they feel sorry for him. (Pardon me Shaun Timmins, but I have never known anyone to be motivated or inspired by a leader "...they feel sorry for".

Plus we've had other distractions such as Dugan coming and Soward going.

And yeah, I just don't buy the aversion to giving young talent a go in first grade because we will do them more harm than good. I suspect it is another form of "jobs for the boys (dysfuntional) culture", but this time involving players and not coaching, recruitment or administrative staff.

If young upcomers were permantly thrown in as our main selection in a key position, then maybe. But even then, stars are discovered in the deep end - Manly halves for example.

I don't know who in Dragons has introduced this cotton wool mentaliity, but a half of 1st grade is not going to hurt them

....it's going to MOTIVATE and BUILD them (for goodness sake)
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
45,839
The guy that complained about the McDonald's sign. All I can say is what a dickhead.

I think I know the guy...

Did he look like this?


sanders_h.jpg
 

Godz Illa

Coach
Messages
18,745
And yeah, I just don't buy the aversion to giving young talent a go in first grade because we will do them more harm than good. I suspect it is another form of "jobs for the boys (dysfuntional) culture", but this time involving players and not coaching, recruitment or administrative staff.

If young upcomers were permantly thrown in as our main selection in a key position, then maybe. But even then, stars are discovered in the deep end - Manly halves for example.

I don't know who in Dragons has introduced this cotton wool mentaliity, but a half of 1st grade is not going to hurt them

....it's going to MOTIVATE and BUILD them (for goodness sake)
Daly Cherry Evans spent an entire year in the Queensland Cup after graduating from Under 20's. I would hardly describe that as being thrown in "the deep end". Ben Barba is another who was brought in to first grade slowly and softly.
On the flipside, Albert Kelly was thrust in too early and has taken years to recover. The current Parra team is another example of what can go wrong - Stuart has thrown young players in left and right, and they're being hammered every single week. Players need to be developed.
Despite this, Price has still given first grade debuts to a stack of players. Stockwell, Cook, Runciman, Quinlan, Garvey, Drinkwater.
People want Quinlan in the halves. Mistake. He's a fullback right now. if a shift is on the cards he needs to learn the trade in NSW Cup.

That said, I want to him to give Seijka a start asap.
 

BennyV

Referee
Messages
23,316
As I said before his name is getting louder SHAUN JOHNSON $$$$$$$$$

Its only getting louder because you are writing it in capitals!!! :sarcasm:

That said, I want to him to give Seijka a start asap.

This. I'd much prefer to see Seijka in the first grade halves next week than Quinlan. If he settles in comfortably and Quinlan shows some good promise in NSW Cup, then bring him up aswell. But at this stage, Harry is a more natural half and has played first grade in the past, plus he adds more of what we are missing (kicking game, organisational skills, etc)
 

Elias1983

Coach
Messages
13,148
The article is surprisingly good and objective....Rothfield probably knew the response he would get if he told it his own way.:)

Well now the situation is out there, hopefully this leads to a bit of change.

However, One thing this article has shown is that Doust hasn't been sitting on his hands. He tried to get cronk, bellamy and johns to the club but was unsuccessfull.

Couple that with the signings that we have made....Doust has been busy.
 

ek999

First Grade
Messages
6,977
ONFIELD LEADERSHIP

Questions are raised about Ben Creagh's captaincy following the retirement of Ben Hornby and Dean Young. A fan says: "There's no leadership, he's not motivating anyone."

Doust hits back, although admitting he's anything but the team's on-field general like most skippers.

"Ben's doing a great job," Doust says, "He's our club captain. He was never going to be the on-field leader of the team. You need the forwards going forward and the halfback leading the team around the field.

"I don't think it's right to criticise Benny Creagh.

"He's not the one required to call the plays."

Wendell Sailor grabs the microphone. He's upset at the Creagh question.

"No one is hurting more than Ben Creagh. I see him in the sheds after the game. He's shattered," Sailor says. "Everyone's got to be accountable, but I wouldn't be questioning Ben Creagh."

Not a Dragons fan but I read this article and this bit has me stumped. Who the f**k is leading your team on the field if it isn't your captain. And why the f**k is Creagh the on-field captain if he isn't the leader. Why was he made captain in the first place if he isn't a leader on the field?
 

jenninga

First Grade
Messages
8,545
The article is surprisingly good and objective....Rothfield probably knew the response he would get if he told it his own way.:)

Well now the situation is out there, hopefully this leads to a bit of change.

However, One thing this article has shown is that Doust hasn't been sitting on his hands. He tried to get cronk, bellamy and johns to the club but was unsuccessfull.

Couple that with the signings that we have made....Doust has been busy.

Agree with his,good article by Rothfield.
Unfortunately we find ourselves in this position because the club aimed big to bring the best half and coach to the club.I f we can nab a good half and a couple more signings i feel we will bounce straight back .
 

Dezziedc

Juniors
Messages
665
Daly Cherry Evans spent an entire year in the Queensland Cup after graduating from Under 20's. I would hardly describe that as being thrown in "the deep end". Ben Barba is another who was brought in to first grade slowly and softly.
On the flipside, Albert Kelly was thrust in too early and has taken years to recover. The current Parra team is another example of what can go wrong - Stuart has thrown young players in left and right, and they're being hammered every single week. Players need to be developed.
Despite this, Price has still given first grade debuts to a stack of players. Stockwell, Cook, Runciman, Quinlan, Garvey, Drinkwater.
People want Quinlan in the halves. Mistake. He's a fullback right now. if a shift is on the cards he needs to learn the trade in NSW Cup.

That said, I want to him to give Seijka a start asap.

Thankyou Godz - finally someone speaking some sense on these forums. They have been getting a run and getting exposure. A majority of players go through this process. Only the extremely talented and resilient make the grade without doing their time in the lower grades. It is very rare.

Agree, Quinlan is a fullback. They are looking to experiment with him in the halves in the Cutters which is a good thing. Seijka in the starting lineup seems like a valid option given his performances so far. If anything, you could try Dugan in the halves with Seijka and bring Quinlan into fullback. But still, this would only be a temporary solution that really serves no purpose but to bring Quinlan into the team for the remainder of the year.
 

watatank

Coach
Messages
14,131
Not a Dragons fan but I read this article and this bit has me stumped. Who the f**k is leading your team on the field if it isn't your captain. And why the f**k is Creagh the on-field captain if he isn't the leader. Why was he made captain in the first place if he isn't a leader on the field?

Not a leader in the sense that he's not calling the plays. That's the job of the playmakers.
 
Top