Redcliffe most likely to be the next expansion team according to the Telegraph

[Perth Red]

Nrl took over the warl in December 2013. Warl entered first Sg ball in 2010. WC Pirates brand was born in June 2012 and became Sg ball Side in 2013 replacing the WA Reds brand.

SG ball8s a worthwhile investment but I can see no point what so ever to having a nsw Cup side unless it’s part of a strategy for that to develop into an nrl club.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

The NRL didn't!

The Pirates (and most everything associated with them) were created independent of the NRL in 2012, long before the WARL was bought by the NRL, and the lower grade teams, which existed as Western Reds teams long before the re-brand to the Pirates anyway (for example they had a Ron Massey cup team way back in about 08, and if I remember correctly the S.G. ball team popped up about the same time), were all created with an eye to creating a clearer pathway for WA juniors to the NRL.

So yeah, the NRL had nothing to do with their creation, and whether or not the NRL plans to give the Pirates an NRL license getting rid of those juniors teams now would be a pointless regression for RL in WA, because no matter who owns and operates the NRL team that infrastructure will eventually need to exist for an NRL team in Perth to develop local juniors.

I also find the idea that they are a waste of money if they aren't leading up to an NRL team to be fascinating. Is creating a pathway for juniors from WA to the NRL not a valuable thing in it's own right?

Ok, fair point on the creation of the team, but they are run by the NRLWA. The pathway is a valuable thing but that was the sole reason, why not Adelaide, Christchurch, Wellington, Darwin? We've agreed previously that pathways is not the primary reason for this team existing. What is that other reason? Because they will be Perth's NRL team when the time comes.

 

[The Great Dane]

Ok, fair point on the creation of the team, but they are run by the NRLWA. The pathway is a valuable thing but that was the sole reason, why not Adelaide, Christchurch, Wellington, Darwin?

Because nobody from those cities has the means or the will to fly juniors teams to and from those cities into NSW (or QLD) based competitions.

Even if they could afford it most of those places wouldn't be anywhere near as competitive as even the Pirates (and the Pirates have won the spoon most years that they've been in it), so you have to consider whether it's in the best interests of RL in those cities to join comps like S.G. Ball at the moment.

We've agreed previously that pathways is not the primary reason for this team existing. What is that other reason?

I don't think that I've agreed to any such thing. . .

The reason that the Pirates S.G. ball team exists is literally to create a more defined route for WA juniors to the NRL, namely so that it isn't necessary for juniors from WA to move to the east coast at the age of about 13-15 year old to have a real chance at being an NRL player.

They are probably also part of a plan to build the Pirates brand within the community before having a bid at the NRL, but that is a tangential benefit not there purpose, and that also doesn't mean that they "will be Perth's NRL team when the time comes".

Because they will be Perth's NRL team when the time comes.

If they have the best bid with the best business plan at the end of the bidding process, then yes they'll win a license, but their operating a team in an under 18s player development competition (which at the end of the day is what S.G. ball is), and being owned by the NRL has (/should have) absolutely zero bearing on whether or not they'll have one of the two best bids when all is said and done, let alone whether or not the NRL intends to expand at all (they'd be mad not to expand and to Perth, but the NRL is often mad).

I think I agree with you that as things stand they definitely have one of the two best bids, but it really doesn't matter if they have one of the best bids now, it only matters that they have one of the best bids at the end of the bidding process, and there's a lot of time between now and the end of the bidding process, and in that time anything could change, including potentially better bids coming along and displacing them, them losing important backers which destroys their bid, or whatever.

So declaring that they "will be Perth's NRL team when the time comes" is just a really stupid thing to say now when there's so much potential for things to change, and radically change at that.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Because nobody from those cities has the means or the will to fly juniors teams to and from those cities into NSW (or QLD) based competitions.

Or.... (since the Pirates are essentially NRL run), the NRL are looking to add the Pirates to the NRL in the next few years and not Adelaide, Wellington, Christchurch etc. The means come from the NRL (and Pirates sponsors of course) which comes back to my point. They wouldn't be wasting their money now if it is just to call on potentially other bids to go into the NRL later.

 

[The Great Dane]

Or.... (since the Pirates are essentially NRL run), the NRL are looking to add the Pirates to the NRL in the next few years and not Adelaide, Wellington, Christchurch etc.

Do you not remember the bit where we established that the NRL literally had nothing to do with the S.G. Ball team. . .
As it all happened prior to the NRL taking over the WARL it's pretty unlikely that the NRL set up the Pirates with the intent to parachute them into the Telstra Premiership in some conspiracy isn't it.

As far as I know there's no evidence that the NRL has any specific plans for the Pirates at all, you've just convinced yourself of that, i.e. you wish it to be true, but you have no real reason to believe that it is true.

The means come from the NRL (and Pirates sponsors of course) which comes back to my point.

That's simply untrue.

NRL grants wouldn't even come close to covering the costs of the S.G. Ball team and the NRLWA's other operations, and as I'm pretty sure that John Sackson and others at the NRLWA have admitted before, the S.G. Ball team wouldn't be possible without great sponsorship deals, particularly the Cash Converters one, and other investors.

They wouldn't be wasting their money now if it is just to call on potentially other bids to go into the NRL later.

Even if it were true that the NRL had created and bankrolled the Pirates S.G. ball team (which again isn't true), you are still assuming there motive for doing that is to build them into an NRL team without any concrete reason to believe that to be the case, i.e. you want it to be the case but you don't know for a fact that it is the case.

Beside all of that, if the NRL wanted to create and NRL team from Perth (or anywhere else for that matter) why wouldn't they just create a club and give them a license?

They are the NRL, if they wanted to create an NRL team they could just do it, they wouldn't need to f**k around with some strange conspiracy where the team needs to be an S.G. Ball team for a decade beforehand. . .

 

[Perth Red]

Do you not remember the bit where we established that the NRL literally had nothing to do with the S.G. Ball team. . .
As it all happened prior to the NRL taking over the WARL it's pretty unlikely that the NRL set up the Pirates with the intent to parachute them into the Telstra Premiership in some conspiracy isn't it.

As far as I know there's no evidence that the NRL has any specific plans for the Pirates at all, you've just convinced yourself of that, i.e. you wish it to be true, but you have no real reason to believe that it is true.

That's simply untrue.

NRL grants wouldn't even come close to covering the costs of the S.G. Ball team and the NRLWA's other operations, and as I'm pretty sure that John Sackson and others at the NRLWA have admitted before, the S.G. Ball team wouldn't be possible without great sponsorship deals, particularly the Cash Converters one, and other investors.


Even if it were true that the NRL had created and bankrolled the Pirates S.G. ball team (which again isn't true), you are still assuming there motive for doing that is to build them into an NRL team without any concrete reason to believe that to be the case, i.e. you want it to be the case but you don't know for a fact that it is the case.

Beside all of that, if the NRL wanted to create and NRL team from Perth (or anywhere else for that matter) why wouldn't they just create a club and give them a license?

They are the NRL, if they wanted to create an NRL team they could just do it, they wouldn't need to f**k around with some strange conspiracy where the team needs to be an S.G. Ball team for a decade beforehand. . .

IF the nrl fund a Pirates team in nsw Cup,then it’s a close certainty thats the way expansion will happen. but as they haven’t yet decided if there will be any expansion it’s very speculative.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Titans to Brisbane

 

[flippikat]

If the Titans are rebranded & moved to Brisbane (with a handful of games - at most - on the GC), then that changes the next expansion completely.

IMO there's no way the NRL will want to add a 3rd Brisbane team while they're still 'bedding-in' the relocated 2nd Brisbane team.. so they can safely punt any decisions on a 3rd Brisbane team down the road for 10.. 15 years even. They dodge a hard decision.

If they still want a 9th game every weekend (18 teams), Perth is still a no-brainer (in whatever form).. but that 18th team becomes wide open for bids all across Australia/New Zealand - just not Brisbane.

I imagine that part of the scenario is pretty damn appealing to the NRL.

Perth is in - and theres a scrap between (potentially) Adelaide, Cairns, Central Qld, Wellington, Christchurch, a 2nd Melbourne club & Central Coast for that 2nd expansion spot.

Even though they can only choose 1.. the bid process can draw out some handy business cases from unsuccessful bids that the NRL can use in planning the next waves of expansion/relocation...

 

[The Great Dane]

IF the nrl fund a Pirates team in nsw Cup,then it’s a close certainty thats the way expansion will happen. but as they haven’t yet decided if there will be any expansion it’s very speculative.

Speculative is an understatement.

 

[The Great Dane]

So long as the Suns exist in the manner that they do the NRL would be absolutely mad to touch the Titans, imagine the PR boon that it'd be for the AFL and the nightmare that it'd be for the NRL.

You also have to keep in mind that the word in AFL land is that everybody, except some bigwigs at the AFL and the Suns themselves, are keen to see them relocated to Tasmania.

I can't believe that I'm saying this (because I'd normally be fundamentally opposed to such things), but what the NRL should be doing with the Titans is a bunch of backroom deals to set them up with a top-notch team, force them to be as successful as possible on the pitch and hopefully that success on the pitch will lead to success off it, and put all the pressure back on the Suns.

 

[greenBV4]

So long as the Suns exist in the manner that they do the NRL would be absolutely mad to touch the Titans, imagine the PR boon that it'd be for the AFL and the nightmare that it'd be for the NRL.

By the sounds of the "reports" it's probably the Titans plan and not yet endorsed by the NRL, and surely any relocation would need the NRL's approval?

Sure some people might think a move like this fixes the "Brisbane 2" problem but it's an "easy fix" that wont work. The Titans aren't going to miraculously pick up new fans by moving an hour north to Brisbane, they'll just alienate their current ones. Sure they might get slightly better crowds at Suncorp, but there's nothing wrong with their current stadium and relative to other clubs their crowds aren't that bad and definitely aren't the biggest problem! Its the fan engagement/memberships and junior development/roster building

If the club is hell-bent on relocating and ditching the GC (which I think they shouldn't), they'd be better of doing it to a brand new market that doesn't have to compete with a mega-club like the Broncos

 

[The Great Dane]

By the sounds of the "reports" it's probably the Titans plan and not yet endorsed by the NRL, and surely any relocation would need the NRL's approval?

By the sounds of the report it looks like a cynical ploy by the Titans to make it look like they are/would consider relocating to Brisbane in an attempt to try and scare Stadiums Queensland into giving them a better deal on rent (or at least give them one that isn't complete dog shit) by threatening to abandon Robina which would leave it as a massive white elephant with no tenants.

 

[greenBV4]

By the sounds of the report it looks like a cynical ploy by the Titans to make it look like they are/would consider relocating to Brisbane in an attempt to try and scare Stadiums Queensland into giving them a better deal on rent (or at least give them one that isn't complete dog shit) by threatening to abandon Robina which would leave it as a massive white elephant with no tenants.

Probably right, Nine reported it as a "top secret" plan, but yet they knew of it basically straight away, guess it makes sense if it was intentionally leaked.

 

[Perth Red]

Owners have denied it but there’s often fire where there’s smoke when it comes to nrl stories. Don’t suppose the Qland govt going to be impressed after shelling out for that stadium. Hands GC to AFL as well which won’t go down well.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Owners have denied it but there’s often fire where there’s smoke when it comes to nrl stories. Don’t suppose the Qland govt going to be impressed after shelling out for that stadium. Hands GC to AFL as well which won’t go down well.

Unlike most here I’m guessing... I have actually attended a game at the GC stadium...

Was staying in Surfers and caught public transport to the ground... took more than 50 minutes to get there..

Another poor location for a RL stadium in my view..

 

[greenBV4]

Unlike most here I’m guessing... I have actually attended a game at the GC stadium...

Was staying in Surfers and caught public transport to the ground... took more than 50 minutes to get there..

Another poor location for a RL stadium in my view..

Its a great stadium but yes its location could definately be alot better

I used to drive up for a game every now and then from the north coast and it was easily to get to in that regard but you could tell it was seperated from where most would live, we then had to try and find a park that was about a 20-30 minute walk away, but that was early days for the stadium so that might of changed

 

[Marlins]

Unlike most here I’m guessing... I have actually attended a game at the GC stadium...

Was staying in Surfers and caught public transport to the ground... took more than 50 minutes to get there..

Another poor location for a RL stadium in my view..

The location is great, if your coming from Brisbane and going back. Also if you live in the local area, which also is only going to get bigger. There’s literally a train station at the stadium. The main problem is if ya going from surfers, or that area.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Do you not remember the bit where we established that the NRL literally had nothing to do with the S.G. Ball team. . .
As it all happened prior to the NRL taking over the WARL it's pretty unlikely that the NRL set up the Pirates with the intent to parachute them into the Telstra Premiership in some conspiracy isn't it.

As far as I know there's no evidence that the NRL has any specific plans for the Pirates at all, you've just convinced yourself of that, i.e. you wish it to be true, but you have no real reason to believe that it is true.

That's simply untrue.

NRL grants wouldn't even come close to covering the costs of the S.G. Ball team and the NRLWA's other operations, and as I'm pretty sure that John Sackson and others at the NRLWA have admitted before, the S.G. Ball team wouldn't be possible without great sponsorship deals, particularly the Cash Converters one, and other investors.


Even if it were true that the NRL had created and bankrolled the Pirates S.G. ball team (which again isn't true), you are still assuming there motive for doing that is to build them into an NRL team without any concrete reason to believe that to be the case, i.e. you want it to be the case but you don't know for a fact that it is the case.

Beside all of that, if the NRL wanted to create and NRL team from Perth (or anywhere else for that matter) why wouldn't they just create a club and give them a license?

They are the NRL, if they wanted to create an NRL team they could just do it, they wouldn't need to f**k around with some strange conspiracy where the team needs to be an S.G. Ball team for a decade beforehand. . .

So why do they exist then? You clearly don't setup and run a costly Perth team in a NSW competition in the lower grades just for fun. What in your opinion is the purpose of their existence if not to be the Perth NRL team?

 

[The Great Dane]

So why do they exist then? You clearly don't setup and run a costly Perth team in a NSW competition in the lower grades just for fun. What in your opinion is the purpose of their existence if not to be the Perth NRL team?

Why does every Juniors team of that level exist: to create a higher level of competition in an attempt to develop the players games quicker/in a more effective way and to create a more defined route to professionalism for the players themselves.

It's a stepping stone to get into NRL club systems for players from WA.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Why does every Juniors team of that level exist: to create a higher level of competition in an attempt to develop the players games quicker/in a more effective way and to create a more defined route to professionalism for the players themselves.

It's a stepping stone to get into NRL club systems for players from WA.

So why don't Adelaide, Darwin, Wellington or Christchurch have the same setup then?