Redcliffe put their hand up

[Sunny coast shark]

You eventually want an NRL team right?

Well do yourself a favour and support your local team instead of praying for the occasional NRL games that will almost certainly be inconsistent, not actually have a large long term effect on the local grassroots, will only suck money out of the local game and economy, and will make your region be seen as a resource to be mined by the club that is partnered with the region, just like 'Canberra shouldn't get a club because it is GWS territory' to a lot of AFL fans.

Supporting the Falcons and attending their games in numbers will see money flowing into the local grassroots, and will prove that there is a large consumer base for a Sunshine Coast NRL team, which is probably the best chance the Sunshine Coast has of getting an NRL team in the next couple of generations.

If the Sunshine Coast Falcons were averaging, e.g., 15k a week that would be undeniable proof of demand for the product, would pump untold thousands/millions of dollars straight into the local grassroots, and everyone in their right mind would be seriously considering promoting them straight into the NRL right now.

What did I just read ?? Average 15k to reserve grade like that is even close to a possibility, I regularly attend falcons games but in my opinion we need as must NRL as possible to show the support is up here.
As much as I hate Melbourne having them up here has put the Sunshine Coast in the conversation for more NRL and for now I’m happy with that.

Our own stand a lone team is years away if ever so I hope Redcliffe or another club embrace the area and so I can go to more footy.

Hopefully next season I get to watch the sharks at Sunshine Coast as they signed a two year deal to play up here but this year was cancelled due to COVID-19.

 

[Sunny coast shark]

Then why do you expect Sunshine Coast fans to support a chimera Brisbane club that is trying to be everything to everyone in numbers?

Of course the answer is that they won't support them in numbers, not really anyway, and the Dolphins games that are played on the Sunshine Coast will be treated like the circus coming to town, a fun novelty, nothing more nothing less.

You'll also find that a lot of people will get frustrated with the Dolphins as they believed that they were a stop gap before the Sunshine Coast gets their own team, yet that team will never come. You don't want to be to the NRL what Canberra, and especially Tasmania, are to the AFL.

I’d be more than happy for the Sunshine Coast to become like Tasmania in regards to matches played.
If the crowds come then somewhere in the future we may get our own team, the fact is the falcons don’t even have a leagues club so there is currently zero financial power to fund anything.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The Queensland Cup GF gets about 8k-10k through the gates. There's zero hope of a club in the competition averaging 15k a season.

 

[Perth Red]

Just because it's not common doesn't mean it's impossible, and surely if it's ever going to happen then, at some level, it must start with local fans, such as Sunny coast shark here, choosing to support their local lower tier clubs over, or in tandem with, the larger NRL clubs.

BTW, depending on how you define "second tier" there are quite a few lower tier competitions that draw reasonable support all over the world, collegiate sports in America, lots of minor league Hockey and Baseball in the US and Canada, multiple soccer leagues across Europe, etc.
If it's possible to create reasonable fan bases for those leagues, then it's possible to do it here in Australia.

it’s not just that it is uncommon, it’s nigh on impossible! The only ones that do have any kind of following have p&r to keep the second tier fans hopeful of glory one day. No other has 7 figure attendances, including the ones you’ve mentioned. Heck the nrl doesn’t even avg 15k avg lol

a national stand alone second tier with lots of publicity, tv time etc could get in the 5k-10k potentially (when the reds joined the jim beam cup we regularly got around 3k at the beginning) but we don’t have that structure so the current second tier is nothing more that a souped up reserve grade for nrl and draws accordingly.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

it’s not just that it is uncommon, it’s nigh on impossible! The only ones that do have any kind of following have p&r to keep the second tier fans hopeful of glory one day. No other has 7 figure attendances, including the ones you’ve mentioned. Heck the nrl doesn’t even avg 15k avg lol

a national stand alone second tier with lots of publicity, tv time etc could get in the 5k-10k potentially (when the reds joined the jim beam cup we regularly got around 3k at the beginning) but we don’t have that structure so the current second tier is nothing more that a souped up reserve grade for nrl and draws accordingly.

Common sense posts like this show you are an intelligent man.

If you were running the ARLC, would you just have one major competition with the state leagues acting as reserve grade,or would you have a 12 team premier league followed by a 12 team reserve grade?

Premier League 12 Teams

3 x Sydney
2 x Brisbane
1 x North Queensland
1 x Newcastle
1 x Auckland
1 x Melbourne
1 x Gold Coast
1 x Adelaide
1 x Perth

 

[The Great Dane]

What did I just read ??

The suggestion of creating a local solution to a local problem instead of trying to rely on outsider organisations whom are not as knowledgeable of the local area, don't care about the local area, and are only in it for the money.

In other words, I'm suggesting that you (i.e. RL fans outside of the geographical reach of the NRL clubs) do some very basic things for yourselves that would massively improve the situation of the sport in your local area instead of waiting around for somebody else to come around and do it for you.

Average 15k to reserve grade like that is even close to a possibility, I regularly attend falcons games but in my opinion we need as must NRL as possible to show the support is up here.
As much as I hate Melbourne having them up here has put the Sunshine Coast in the conversation for more NRL and for now I’m happy with that.

Our own stand a lone team is years away if ever so I hope Redcliffe or another club embrace the area and so I can go to more footy.

Hopefully next season I get to watch the sharks at Sunshine Coast as they signed a two year deal to play up here but this year was cancelled due to COVID-19.

Despite how everyone has misrepresented it, the 15k number was an example of how many you'd need for people to seriously consider immediately promoting the club into the NRL, not an average attendance that your average second tier club could expect, but even then it's only impossible because we refuse to try.

More NRL games won't actually do anything to help RL on the ground on the Sunshine Coast, it'll just suck more interest and resources away from local RL and give them to the NRL clubs, and if Redcliffe, or any other club, ever embraces the area then you can kiss any chance of getting your own NRL club goodbye.

Also you already have footy to go to, the Sunshine Coast Falcons, and the only way local RL will grow is if you support them (and other local clubs) instead of giving all your money to an NRL club that A. doesn't need money as much anyway and B. doesn't give a f**k about RL on the Sunshine Coast.

 

[Perth Red]

I’d have a 14 team premier comp with reserves. Max spend $22mill. Grant $10mill. Salary cap $9mill
Then I’d have a 14 team team second national tier comp.max spend $7mill. $5mill Grant $4mill salary cap

that would cost the nrl $210mill a year in club grants. They currently pay out around $250mill a year to nrl and nsw/QRL clubs.
28 professional clubs in a truly national/international footprint.clubs could move down if in trouble and a lower club could move up if they were big enough. Min criteria relevant to both leagues fir stadiums, Attendances, revenue, jnr programmes etc licenses reviewed every 5 years. 20 game season with a knock out cup mid season. Nines featuring both leagues pre season
The state leagues then become the third tier.

eg

NRL premier1
Souths
Eels
Roosters
Northern sydney (new northern sydney stadium)
Panthers
Dragons
Knights
Broncos
Brisbane2
Warriors
Cowboys
Raiders
Storm
WC Pirates

premier2
Bears
Sharks
Manly
Bulldogs (Belmore)
Wests (Leichhardt)
Gosford
Redcliffe
Ipswich
Burleigh
CQ
PNG
Adelaide
Christchurch
Wellington

 

[The Great Dane]

it’s not just that it is uncommon, it’s nigh on impossible! The only ones that do have any kind of following have p&r to keep the second tier fans hopeful of glory one day. No other has 7 figure attendances, including the ones you’ve mentioned. Heck the nrl doesn’t even avg 15k avg lol

The only reason the NRL doesn't average 15k is because it's dominated by incompetent organisations whose priorities are arse backwards, and on top of that more than the NRL's fair share of clubs shouldn't even be in the league... You know that, don't pretend that you don't.

It's also not true that the only lower tier competitions in a P&R system have a following, and all three divisions of NCAA Football and Basketball have seven figure attendances, I wouldn't be surprised if Baseball does as well but I couldn't find the numbers.

If glorified school boy competitions with the right money and exposure behind them can achieve that, then we can achieve similar things, and the Newtown Jets, for example, already are.

a national stand alone second tier with lots of publicity, tv time etc could get in the 5k-10k potentially (when the reds joined the jim beam cup we regularly got around 3k at the beginning) but we don’t have that structure so the current second tier is nothing more that a souped up reserve grade for nrl and draws accordingly.

Well why don't we go about changing that instead of whinging that it's not possible, you know basically what I'm suggesting lol.

Have you ever watched the The Battered Bastards of Baseball, it's a great documentary on Netflix, give it a watch, as though their situation was a little different to ours, Bing Russell and his Portland Mavericks perfectly encapsulate the attitude we should have on the lower tiers.

 

[Perth Red]

The only reason the NRL doesn't average 15k is because it's dominated by incompetent organisations whose priorities are arse backwards, and on top of that more than the NRL's fair share of clubs shouldn't even be in the league... You know that, don't pretend that you don't.

It's also not true that the only lower tier competitions in a P&R system have a following, and all three divisions of NCAA Football and Basketball have seven figure attendances, I wouldn't be surprised if Baseball does as well but I couldn't find the numbers.

If glorified school boy competitions with the right money and exposure behind them can achieve that, then we can achieve similar things, and the Newtown Jets, for example, already are.

Well why don't we go about changing that instead of whinging that it's not possible, you know basically what I'm suggesting lol.

Have you ever watched the The Battered Bastards of Baseball, it's a great documentary on Netflix, give it a watch, as though their situation was a little different to ours, Bing Russell and his Portland Mavericks perfectly encapsulate the attitude we should have on the lower tiers.

ncaa sports aren’t second tier comps and are very unique in the world.
Jets don’t avg a 7 figure crowd and their only decent crowd a year is for the footy, beer and food festival day they put on.
Once again NO second tier comp in the world that doesn't have P&R (in fact that isn’t soccer and doesn’t have P&R) avgs a 7 figure crowd.
If we could get a viable national second tier Comp with crowds of 5k plus we’d be doing very well. Avg crowd in RL championship in uk is around 2.5k.
We are playing hypotheticals. Nswrl and qrl would never allow a second tier national comp and see their state comps relegated to third tier. Ask Richardson how much power they still wield!

 

[The Great Dane]

ncaa sports aren’t second tier comps and are very unique in the world.
Jets don’t avg a 7 figure crowd and their only decent crowd a year is for the footy, beer and food festival day they put on.
Once again NO second tier comp in the world that doesn't have P&R (in fact that isn’t soccer and doesn’t have P&R) avgs a 7 figure crowd.
If we could get a viable national second tier Comp with crowds of 5k plus we’d be doing very well. Avg crowd in RL championship in uk is around 2.5k.

A viable second tier Comp with an average of roughly 5k is all I'm suggesting is realistic, in the short term at least. In other words I don't have a faintest f**king clue what you are arguing against, because we agree and have done from the beginning!

But besides, the NCAA comps are only not second tier competitions because you arbitrarily define them not to be, when really in the context of American culture they effectively fill the role of a second tier competition in multipule sports, and no individual club has a 7 figure average. You do realise that 7 figures is one million right lol.

We are playing hypotheticals. Nswrl and qrl would never allow a second tier national comp and see their state comps relegated to third tier. Ask Richardson how much power they still wield!

They shouldn't have a say in the matter and all it would take was a strong leader and there'd be nothing that the NSWRL and QRL could do to stop it.

 

[Perth Red]

I meant 5 figure lol
And there in lies the problem, rl and strong leadership are strange bed fellows!

 

[taipan]

LOL Perth in Premier 1, leaving out for a start West Tigers and Bulldogs who have and would continue to have far bigger fan base including country wide, than Perth ,without even mentioning the Sea Eagles and Sharks but I did due to the opportunity.Let alone the TV ratings which for Perth continue to be ordinary for NRL games.
If anything new teams should start n lower divisions and prove their worth.

Stick to one major competition the NRL instead of the fantasy stuff ,that's all this country can handle ATM. and certainly for the next few years.Unless one has $200m to throw in to the NRL.

Club grants are going to be reduced and football clubs are taking a hit.TV deals are less.Oh COVID didn't happen, it's all rosy. People on job Seeker and Keeper don't exist ,sheesh.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

LOL Perth in Premier 1, leaving out for a start West Tigers and Bulldogs who have and would continue to have far bigger fan base including country wide, than Perth ,without even mentioning the Sea Eagles and Sharks but I did due to the opportunity.Let alone the TV ratings which for Perth continue to be ordinary for NRL games.
If anything new teams should start n lower divisions and prove their worth.

Stick to one major competition the NRL instead of the fantasy stuff ,that's all this country can handle ATM. and certainly for the next few years.Unless one has $200m to throw in to the NRL.

Club grants are going to be reduced and football clubs are taking a hit.TV deals are less.Oh COVID didn't happen, it's all rosy. People on job Seeker and Keeper don't exist ,sheesh.

That's the problem with expansion. For one bid to get in, some one else has to miss out.

Expansion into Adelaide and Perth will come at the expense of Brisbane, Sydney and New Zealand.

I would never advocate for a Sydney team to be culled just so Adelaide and Perth can have one. But, if a Sydney team can increase its fanbase and revenue by moving its base and tinkering with its brand so it resonates with more people then they would be crazy to not think about it.

I think Manly could become more successful if they became the Central Coast Sea Eagles @ Gosford or North Sydney Sea Eagles @ a redeveloped North Sydney Oval.

Dragons might be forced to relocate to Wollongong in 15-20 years.

Tigers are a concern. Nomads run by a club that doesn't want them to be the Tigers, but forced to call themselves that because idiots at ARLC won't let them be the Magpies. Meanwhile in Coorparoo there's a richer club that just changed their name from Easts Tigers to Brisbane Tigers and wants an NRL licence, but cannot use that brand because of idiots at ARLC. Wests Magpies and Brisbane Tigers lose out because of the ARLC's stubbornness.

I don't want to see any teams forced out of the competition, with the exception of the Broncos as they've caused nothing but problems since 1988. I want Melbourne to stay and succeed in fumbleball heartland, but I want them to do it organically and fairly, not at the expense of other areas that are just as important to the game. I have grave concerns for their sustainability when they are eventually brought back down to Earth. It doesn’t matter how many more talent scouts and assistant coaches they have compared to everyone else to pick up the best juniors and turn them into stars, because, the quality of juniors and coaches coming through the ranks ain't what it was in 1998-2003. When Smith and Bellamy leave the club they will decline somewhat.

 

[Sunny coast shark]

The suggestion of creating a local solution to a local problem instead of trying to rely on outsider organisations whom are not as knowledgeable of the local area, don't care about the local area, and are only in it for the money.

In other words, I'm suggesting that you (i.e. RL fans outside of the geographical reach of the NRL clubs) do some very basic things for yourselves that would massively improve the situation of the sport in your local area instead of waiting around for somebody else to come around and do it for you.

Despite how everyone has misrepresented it, the 15k number was an example of how many you'd need for people to seriously consider immediately promoting the club into the NRL, not an average attendance that your average second tier club could expect, but even then it's only impossible because we refuse to try.

More NRL games won't actually do anything to help RL on the ground on the Sunshine Coast, it'll just suck more interest and resources away from local RL and give them to the NRL clubs, and if Redcliffe, or any other club, ever embraces the area then you can kiss any chance of getting your own NRL club goodbye.

Also you already have footy to go to, the Sunshine Coast Falcons, and the only way local RL will grow is if you support them (and other local clubs) instead of giving all your money to an NRL club that A. doesn't need money as much anyway and B. doesn't give a f**k about RL on the Sunshine Coast.

You’ve got no idea mate.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

You’ve got no idea mate.

Dane is a contrarian who argues for the sake of it. I don't even read what he says anymore. He's on my ignore list.

Did he seriously say a Queensland Cup club needs to average 15k to be considered for expansion?

How does he reconcile the fact the Dolphins are favourites to get the 17th licence, despite drawing less than 5k to their games?

How does he expect Adelaide or Perth to get a club when they cannot afford to run a team in the state cups, let alone draw 15k?

He's always waffling on about how valuable Adelaide and Perth are and how spots need to be kept vacant for them, then gets all pissy and catty when someone advocates for another area to gain representation.

 

[Perth Red]

LOL Perth in Premier 1, leaving out for a start West Tigers and Bulldogs who have and would continue to have far bigger fan base including country wide, than Perth ,without even mentioning the Sea Eagles and Sharks but I did due to the opportunity.Let alone the TV ratings which for Perth continue to be ordinary for NRL games.
If anything new teams should start n lower divisions and prove their worth.

Stick to one major competition the NRL instead of the fantasy stuff ,that's all this country can handle ATM. and certainly for the next few years.Unless one has $200m to throw in to the NRL.

Club grants are going to be reduced and football clubs are taking a hit.TV deals are less.Oh COVID didn't happen, it's all rosy. People on job Seeker and Keeper don't exist ,sheesh.

as I’ve shown above the cost to the nrl in club grants would be less than they are currently paying out, yes it’s a pipe dream, this whole section is a pipe dream as with current leadership nrl has as much chance of nationally expanding as I have of winning loto

 

[taipan]

as I’ve shown above the cost to the nrl in club grants would be less than they are currently paying out, yes it’s a pipe dream, this whole section is a pipe dream as with current leadership nrl has as much chance of nationally expanding as I have of winning loto

It wouldn't matter whether it's the current leadership, or your mate's former leadership, any one with half a brain knows this year and the near future are going to be very confronting financially.

I'll say this the current leadership is showing some financial responsibility, which is more than I can say about prior ones.They didn't utilise their loan offer.

To expand anywhere during these times, but a heartland state would be financially irresponsible ,especially as not all Tv deals are concluded, especially as broadcasters are slashing expenditure.You need eyes on screens and that "ain't" going to happen elsewhere.That is the harsh and brutal reality.

All codes are cutting back on expenditure, even the one who expanded nationally and had to borrow this year.The same code that doesnt outlay money for SOO or the International game like the NRL does.

 

[The Great Dane]

You’ve got no idea mate.

I've got no idea? So Group 19 (ACTRL), the Newcastle Rugby League, and Brisbane Rugby League never happened?

Because what I'm suggesting should happen in country regions, such as the Sunshine Coast, is literally what happened in Canberra, Newcastle, and Brisbane; their local competitions were relatively well supported and relatively successful as a result, which eventually lead to the larger NSWRL seeing that and deciding they wanted a piece of that action.

Sure, times are different now with mass media and the internet , and local competitions being well supported is unlikely, but one well supported team in a region that claims to be a heartland with thousands of "fans" is definitely doable, and it would be the best result for everyone and the game as a whole.

 

[Perth Red]

It wouldn't matter whether it's the current leadership, or your mate's former leadership, any one with half a brain knows this year and the near future are going to be very confronting financially.

I'll say this the current leadership is showing some financial responsibility, which is more than I can say about prior ones.They didn't utilise their loan offer.

To expand anywhere during these times, but a heartland state would be financially irresponsible ,especially as not all Tv deals are concluded, especially as broadcasters are slashing expenditure.You need eyes on screens and that "ain't" going to happen elsewhere.That is the harsh and brutal reality.

All codes are cutting back on expenditure, even the one who expanded nationally and had to borrow this year.The same code that doesnt outlay money for SOO or the International game like the NRL does.

Latest excuse. We haven’t had covid last ten years and despite all the talk nothing. If Covid hadn’t come along you honestly think the nrl would have expanded in next 5 years beyond possible consolidation of the Brisbane market? Nrl revenue will still be more during the covid recession than before the arlc took over. Covid just gives a convenient reason for more procrastination.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Whatever happened to Mr Koukash?

If he's no longer involved with Salford Red Devils then maybe Cumins could work alongside him to create a Perth-based team that starts out in one of England's lower tier leagues, then works its way up to the ESL.

Salary cap would be lower and travel costs wouldn't be much different to what the Force spend. Easier to assemble a competitive team as the standard of the English game is lightyears behind the NRL. ESL suddenly becomes more interesting to Australians, which will be good for Foxtel and sponsors of the English game.