Redcliffe put their hand up

[taipan]

Latest excuse. We haven’t had covid last ten years and despite all the talk nothing. If Covid hadn’t come along you honestly think the nrl would have expanded in next 5 years beyond possible consolidation of the Brisbane market? Nrl revenue will still be more during the covid recession than before the arlc took over. Covid just gives a convenient reason for more procrastination.

Everything is an excuse because you don't agree with no surprise there. Obviously you have little concept of what is happening in this country, and the short to medium term effects to the economy,jobs,company profitability.Your "convenient"COVID response is utter bollocks.

I have stated many times yet it still just goes through to keeper, if the head office does not have the cash reserves necessary to support expansion to non heartland clubs in particular(which it did have prior to 95),then it is financially irresponsible to spend many millions leaving the cupboard bare do so.

Brisbane 2 is a market, where any sort of outlay would provide returns and pay for itself fairly quickly, but money is still needed to help set it up.
Non heartland whether you accept it or is a lot riskier especially with limited funds.

Are you serious ?You are comparing revenue just prior to the Commission formation, when there was no financial disaster lurking, to the utilisation of all NRL monies in the Bank now(despite not using the Loan),and the revenue which is eaten up by cost increases across the board (heard of inflation and running costs increases).Why the hell is the RL cutting back 25% of its staff? It was unsustainable as a result of your so called "convenient excuse" COVID hit.

 

[Perth Red]

I understand a lot better than you would know, I'm dealing with it every day in my business.
Which has nothing to do with the fact that in the last 10 years the NRL has doubled its revenue. Yes DOUBLED. Out of the extra $250million a year it now brings in it is BS to say there wasnt $20-30mill to expand if that was seen as a priority.
If it had any real vision or desire to expand it has had ample opportunities over the last decade to do so. The fact it hasn't is all the evidence you need of how anti expansionist/conservative it has been and remains. If we had no Covid we still wouldn't have a plan for expansion beyond the latest chairs "good idea",
Covid is just the latest reason to park any long term strategy, and over the last decade we have had plenty of excuses for doing nothing. RL lacks vision, leadership and long term strategy. Always has, probably always will.
It should have set out its strategy in 2013 when it became independent and saw its revenue increase dramatically. That vision should have been for two new teams ready for the 2018 TV deal, with possibility for a further two teams for the 2023 deal if revenue kept increasing. Its very convenient to say yes but Covid would have created big problems but in 2013 there was no idea that a pandemic could happen in 7 years time! Sht if we didnt do anything to grow business in case a once in a lifetime global event happened then we'd all be stuck in the dark ages!

I mean look at the 18-22 Strat plan they put out. Could they be any less aspirational? HAlf the stuff in it was already decided on and underway!

https://www.nrl.com/siteassets/operations/documentation/nrl-strategic-plan-2018-2022.pdf

 

[taipan]

I understand a lot better than you would know, I'm dealing with it every day in my business.
Which has nothing to do with the fact that in the last 10 years the NRL has doubled its revenue. Yes DOUBLED. Out of the extra $250million a year it now brings in it is BS to say there wasnt $20-30mill to expand if that was seen as a priority.
If it had any real vision or desire to expand it has had ample opportunities over the last decade to do so. The fact it hasn't is all the evidence you need of how anti expansionist/conservative it has been and remains. If we had no Covid we still wouldn't have a plan for expansion beyond the latest chairs "good idea",
Covid is just the latest reason to park any long term strategy, and over the last decade we have had plenty of excuses for doing nothing. RL lacks vision, leadership and long term strategy. Always has, probably always will.
It should have set out its strategy in 2013 when it became independent and saw its revenue increase dramatically. That vision should have been for two new teams ready for the 2018 TV deal, with possibility for a further two teams for the 2023 deal if revenue kept increasing. Its very convenient to say yes but Covid would have created big problems but in 2013 there was no idea that a pandemic could happen in 7 years time! Sht if we didnt do anything to grow business in case a once in a lifetime global event happened then we'd all be stuck in the dark ages!

I mean look at the 18-22 Strat plan they put out. Could they be any less aspirational? HAlf the stuff in it was already decided on and underway!

https://www.nrl.com/siteassets/operations/documentation/nrl-strategic-plan-2018-2022.pdf

If you "understand a lot better" ,then you would not be treating the COVID effect so flippantly, nor would you continue to ignore the simple fact of the cost of expansion and the money needed to set up a club .Nor the need to have the financials backing you ATT when you do expand as the fumblers obviously did ,because they are going through it like water.
The NRL could have tripled its revenue, and if not for the sh*t state of the Oz and world economy you might have an argument. COSTS have gone up ,wages have plateaued or been reduced .

If the NRL was so happy with the revenue increase and not worried about cost implications, they wouldn't have cut their staff by 25%,nor would the AFL.or other sports.
You remind me of a woman with a credit card going mad at the Boxing Day sales.Throw money around now, and ignore the after effects later.

Are you that blind not to realise, if they didn't cut staff to reduce costs, there would be SFA chance of any sort of expansion.That is my view why Vlad is looking at Brisbane 2, in order to do it, costs have to be cut elsewhere.

Really,Well you go and tell Abdo (a good mate of Smith's by the way ),how to expand.with the $25-30m.Why didn't that happen with Smith's reign, everyone is pro expansion .He was throwing around money.

Those wonderful visions.
The ARU had a vision in 2003 they would be the no 1 football code in he Northern states and no2 in the southern states ,go and fill in the resultant blanks................
Super league under John Ribot de Bresac had a vision where E.T would be famous in China and would be a world recognised sport, how did that turn out.
The sleeping giant of Oz sport soccer, had a vision of dominating major sport in this country and the A League would outdraw the NRL......fill in the results.
The AFL had vision about the Suns and GWS ,they did not realise how costly they would end up ,they have to use their cash and borrow because of COVID.They are clueless in what to do with Tasmania,.They had a N/Z vision.The Kiwis told them to stick their Sherrin up where the sun don't shine.

I had a vision and plans for retiring around 50, funny it never eventuated.And I can assure you with money I'm not flippant.
And guess what, when you have plans/vision you include what you have or have not in place ATT.That's a starting point.

We rugby league had money prior to 95 and we expanded and we stuffed that opportunity.None of the other codes had that sh*t.And it had a long term effect on the game, because clubs were committed to pay their players up til 2005, the SL inflated monies.Then a couple of years later we get the GFC in 2008.
You think visions take these unforeseen costly events in to account.We were going to get a reconfigured ANZ stadium ,COVID stuffed that.

Are you serious?So you cite the NRL plan for 2018-2022, which is now near meaningless, when you have used up all your cash, you have sacked 25% of your staff, you do not have a rectangular ANZ stadium just the same old blob, all this whilst cots continue to increase ,medical/insurance/transport regardless of people's money dropping.Sorry you just don't get it IMO.

 

[Perth Red]

Your talking in the now, I'm talking over the last ten years pre covid. Of course now isnt the time to expand, few businesses are expanding in this climate, but your using this extraordinary moment in time to justify the NRLs lack of expansion strategy over the last decade. If we never expand "just in case" then the game is never going to grow. The money has been there over the last two mega TV deals IF the NRL had an expansion vision and strategy. It hasn't had, still doesn't have and god knows if it will ever have.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I doesn't matter how much money is brought into the game through media deals and sponsors. It's unlikely to be spent on expansion or the grassroots because the RLPA and clubs have so much influence. They will put their hand out and threaten to go on strike if the lion's share of the extra revenue isn't spent on them.

 

[T-Boon]

I doesn't matter how much money is brought into the game through media deals and sponsors. It's unlikely to be spent on expansion or the grassroots because the RLPA and clubs have so much influence. They will put their hand out and threaten to go on strike if the lion's share of the extra revenue isn't spent on them.

It is a problem.
Unfortunately the clubs really make the decisions and the clubs are really the coaching staff and players.
So for expansion to occur these greedy merkin coaches, players and football manager types would need to be prepared to accept less money than they otherwise would have to if it stays this bunch of 16 greedy merkin clubs.
There has been ample money to expand in the last couple decades but the clubs spend all the money on giving themselves pay increases then they also get to point to the fact clubs aren't profit enough yet for expansion.
The problem is this generation of player/coach don't realize they are making a fortune out of the game on the back of the fact bygone era of players earned nothing but worked their arse's off for the love of the game and saw themselves as custodians of the game and these greedy merkins are not passing it forward.

 

[Perth Red]

It is a problem.
Unfortunately the clubs really make the decisions and the clubs are really the coaching staff and players.
So for expansion to occur these greedy merkin coaches, players and football manager types would need to be prepared to accept less money than they otherwise would have to if it stays this bunch of 16 greedy merkin clubs.
There has been ample money to expand in the last couple decades but the clubs spend all the money on giving themselves pay increases then they also get to point to the fact clubs aren't profit enough yet for expansion.
The problem is this generation of player/coach don't realize they are making a fortune out of the game on the back of the fact bygone era of players earned nothing but worked their arse's off for the love of the game and saw themselves as custodians of the game and these greedy merkins are not passing it forward.

In theory more competition for players and coaches drives up price. With two new clubs needing to fill rosters the players can demand more or at the very least more chance of keeping a first grade spot at the end of careers etc. It would actually be in their interests to have more clubs.

Clubs still get a relatively minor % of overall NRL revenue imo. About 40% last year. 10% goes in putting the game on, 20% on generating more revenue. The 30% left is discretionary spending and where, if the NRL had a vision to be a national sport, the funds for new clubs would come from. Part of the issue is the NRL feeling the need to significantly fund grassroots, AFL doesnt have this funding pressure as it is set up differently so can invest its discretionary funding in A) supporting low revenue clubs B) funding expansion clubs C) funding grassroots expansion programs. NRL is just set up all wrong sadly and too far down the track to ever change.

 

[taipan]

Your talking in the now, I'm talking over the last ten years pre covid. Of course now isnt the time to expand, few businesses are expanding in this climate, but your using this extraordinary moment in time to justify the NRLs lack of expansion strategy over the last decade. If we never expand "just in case" then the game is never going to grow. The money has been there over the last two mega TV deals IF the NRL had an expansion vision and strategy. It hasn't had, still doesn't have and god knows if it will ever have.

Smith was CEO in the last 10 yearsWe got no expansion, and not huge sums in the bank needed.

Of course I'm using this extraordinary moment int time, as we are discussing expansion (ie the future).
COVID effect and the country's deficit and peoples' financials are going to be affected for years to come.
Not my view but at least every week someone brings that up.

IF we have the money, and that is what the NRL is aiming at by cutting staff and looking at B2 as a result, that's not "just in case".It's called planning.
The money came in, the costs came out.Like sh*t it happens ,it happened pre 2020 because our costs apparently were too high.

We had a 2018-2022 Tv deal which was good, not as good as fumbles, and the last 3 years of that deal were sliced by the COVID result, and the clearing out of our cash reserves.Now tell me where the money comes from? Your backyard printing press?

 

[Perth Red]

Sadly Gallop, Smith and Greenberg all lacked the koohonas for expansion, how much of that was driven by the commission (after all it is them that set strategy) is hard to say. Fair to say there has been nothing between CEO's or commissioners in last 7 years of independence when it comes to expansion strategy.

As for your last bit, easy to say now we are in the middle of a once in a lifetime pandemic (hopefully) but doesn't offer any excuses for the last decade of inaction. Of course there will be no expansion for the foreseeable future, I tend to think regardless of Covid there wouldnt have been anyway. After his initial bluster about Brisbane2 Vlandys started to backtrack pre covid and started using the traditional jargon of "business case" "mustn't weaken existing clubs" "need to consider player strength" "we need to commission a report" etc etc. There is no vision, there is no strategy, and now there is no money. The more things change the more they stay the same.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

It is a problem.
Unfortunately the clubs really make the decisions and the clubs are really the coaching staff and players.
So for expansion to occur these greedy merkin coaches, players and football manager types would need to be prepared to accept less money than they otherwise would have to if it stays this bunch of 16 greedy merkin clubs.
There has been ample money to expand in the last couple decades but the clubs spend all the money on giving themselves pay increases then they also get to point to the fact clubs aren't profit enough yet for expansion.
The problem is this generation of player/coach don't realize they are making a fortune out of the game on the back of the fact bygone era of players earned nothing but worked their arse's off for the love of the game and saw themselves as custodians of the game and these greedy merkins are not passing it forward.

The QRL and NSWRL are just as bad. The first person to talk down the Brisbane 2 idea was some one from the QRL. It wouldn't surprise me if the Donkeys had a hand in his plea.

 

[Perth Red]

Yes it was interesting that the QRL favours Sydney relocation to the sunshine coast.

https://www.nospam21.com/vlandys-and-qrl-in-standoff-over-expansion-nrl-74758/

It is also interesting that QRL believes the game needs to expand to new areas as a priority.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...s/news-story/a8e521ceb1e29a486c09769bddb7ecb8

 

[taipan]

Sadly Gallop, Smith and Greenberg all lacked the koohonas for expansion, how much of that was driven by the commission (after all it is them that set strategy) is hard to say. Fair to say there has been nothing between CEO's or commissioners in last 7 years of independence when it comes to expansion strategy.

As for your last bit, easy to say now we are in the middle of a once in a lifetime pandemic (hopefully) but doesn't offer any excuses for the last decade of inaction. Of course there will be no expansion for the foreseeable future, I tend to think regardless of Covid there wouldnt have been anyway. After his initial bluster about Brisbane2 Vlandys started to backtrack pre covid and started using the traditional jargon of "business case" "mustn't weaken existing clubs" "need to consider player strength" "we need to commission a report" etc etc. There is no vision, there is no strategy, and now there is no money. The more things change the more they stay the same.

They also lacked the funds, partly due to their inability to rein in costs.That is part of the problem of the last decade.
You say there is no vision, if you're not involved in the Commission ,neither you nor I ,can make any sort of definitive statement like that.

 

[greenBV4]

It is also interesting that QRL believes the game needs to expand to new areas as a priority.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...s/news-story/a8e521ceb1e29a486c09769bddb7ecb8

Do you have that full article handy? Would be an interesting read

 

[Perth Red]

Queensland Rugby League chair Bruce Hatcher has weighed in on the future of Sydney clubs, suggesting if they are opposed to relocation then the ARL Commission should look at forcing them into mergers to make room for new clubs in Adelaide and Perth.

As the game grapples with the prospect of a second team in Brisbane, Hatcher has renewed his call for expansion beyond the game’s traditional heartlands.

Hatcher spoke about the issue 12 months ago at a meeting between the states, clubs and ARL Commission, placing the rationalisation of Sydney clubs on the agenda afterwards in an interview with The Australian when he discussed relocation.

He was howled down at the time, but his views have not changed. With Sydney clubs insisting they are going nowhere amid renewed speculation over the future shape of the competition, Hatcher believes the ARL Commission should look at merging sides to create space for new outfits with the eventual goal of having a national competition.

“If they are all so worried about being shifted out of Sydney, well merge two of them — let’s say Cronulla and St George (Illawarra) — and another two,” Hatcher said.

“That would leave seven in Sydney. Then you have to start two new franchises. I am amazed at the argument by Sydney journalists that you can’t touch any Sydney clubs.

“Well if you can’t touch any of them, go merge a couple of them to reduce the number.

“That gives you the best of both worlds. If you were smart you would merge two out.”

Hatcher, who is currently immersed in talks with the clubs over reform of the ARL Commission, is also an advocate for moving Gold Coast, either to south Brisbane or the Ipswich corridor.

Ultimately he has no say on the matter, although that may change down the track should he and ARL Commission chair Peter Beattie be successful in convincing the clubs and states to agree to changes to the constitution.

Canterbury and Gold Coast are among the clubs currently opposed to change that would result in the clubs and states having two representatives apiece on a nine-member commission.

Hatcher and Beattie have been working feverishly behind the scenes, but they are running out of time given the states and clubs are due to come together in Sydney next week.

The issue of the competition structure is likely to be on the agenda amid talk from the Nine Network that the game needs another team in Brisbane.

For that to happen, the expectation is that a Sydney club would be forced to make way because the game is unlikely to expand to 17 or 18 sides. Manly and Cronulla have been the two clubs most often mentioned as vulnerable, with players and officials from both clubs insisting that they are going nowhere.

While the Sea Eagles are close to breaking even this year, the Sharks are headed for another year of multi-million-dollar losses believed to be beyond earlier projections because of the payout to former coach Shane Flanagan and the sanctions from the salary-cap scandal.

Sharks officials insist the club is in no immediate danger because of the property deal they struck with developers around their home ground.

However, the new licensing agreements are set to place more pressure on the club given they are likely to require stricter financial reporting than at any time in the game’s history.

The clubs have contributed to a sinking fund to bail out any clubs that strike financial trouble, but the ARL Commission ultimately decides how and when that money can be used and they have already stated they will not bail out clubs.

The money is instead likely to be used to lure a club in trouble to a new destination, potentially in Brisbane or perhaps in Adelaide or Perth.

Hatcher fears that the game lacks the forward thinking necessary to make the big decisions.

“Let’s hope we have people in our organisations who have forward thinking,” Hatcher said.

“Cronulla have sold their last asset to survive. What is going to happen in two or three years?

“You don’t want to be bailing clubs out. You want to get to a progressive level. That is what I believe.”

 

[MugaB]

Queensland Rugby League chair Bruce Hatcher has weighed in on the future of Sydney clubs, suggesting if they are opposed to relocation then the ARL Commission should look at forcing them into mergers to make room for new clubs in Adelaide and Perth.

As the game grapples with the prospect of a second team in Brisbane, Hatcher has renewed his call for expansion beyond the game’s traditional heartlands.

Hatcher spoke about the issue 12 months ago at a meeting between the states, clubs and ARL Commission, placing the rationalisation of Sydney clubs on the agenda afterwards in an interview with The Australian when he discussed relocation.

He was howled down at the time, but his views have not changed. With Sydney clubs insisting they are going nowhere amid renewed speculation over the future shape of the competition, Hatcher believes the ARL Commission should look at merging sides to create space for new outfits with the eventual goal of having a national competition.

“If they are all so worried about being shifted out of Sydney, well merge two of them — let’s say Cronulla and St George (Illawarra) — and another two,” Hatcher said.

“That would leave seven in Sydney. Then you have to start two new franchises. I am amazed at the argument by Sydney journalists that you can’t touch any Sydney clubs.

“Well if you can’t touch any of them, go merge a couple of them to reduce the number.

“That gives you the best of both worlds. If you were smart you would merge two out.”

Hatcher, who is currently immersed in talks with the clubs over reform of the ARL Commission, is also an advocate for moving Gold Coast, either to south Brisbane or the Ipswich corridor.

Ultimately he has no say on the matter, although that may change down the track should he and ARL Commission chair Peter Beattie be successful in convincing the clubs and states to agree to changes to the constitution.

Canterbury and Gold Coast are among the clubs currently opposed to change that would result in the clubs and states having two representatives apiece on a nine-member commission.

Hatcher and Beattie have been working feverishly behind the scenes, but they are running out of time given the states and clubs are due to come together in Sydney next week.

The issue of the competition structure is likely to be on the agenda amid talk from the Nine Network that the game needs another team in Brisbane.

For that to happen, the expectation is that a Sydney club would be forced to make way because the game is unlikely to expand to 17 or 18 sides. Manly and Cronulla have been the two clubs most often mentioned as vulnerable, with players and officials from both clubs insisting that they are going nowhere.

While the Sea Eagles are close to breaking even this year, the Sharks are headed for another year of multi-million-dollar losses believed to be beyond earlier projections because of the payout to former coach Shane Flanagan and the sanctions from the salary-cap scandal.

Sharks officials insist the club is in no immediate danger because of the property deal they struck with developers around their home ground.

However, the new licensing agreements are set to place more pressure on the club given they are likely to require stricter financial reporting than at any time in the game’s history.

The clubs have contributed to a sinking fund to bail out any clubs that strike financial trouble, but the ARL Commission ultimately decides how and when that money can be used and they have already stated they will not bail out clubs.

The money is instead likely to be used to lure a club in trouble to a new destination, potentially in Brisbane or perhaps in Adelaide or Perth.

Hatcher fears that the game lacks the forward thinking necessary to make the big decisions.

“Let’s hope we have people in our organisations who have forward thinking,” Hatcher said.

“Cronulla have sold their last asset to survive. What is going to happen in two or three years?

“You don’t want to be bailing clubs out. You want to get to a progressive level. That is what I believe.”

How old was this article? I read something like this earlier on in the year, has to be more than 4-6 months ago, a lot has changed since then.
As far as relocations, i doubt any sydney based club will move, although if i was to point and shoot, it would have to be a team that doesn't represent its area enough, either roosters or manly, but again manly have to branch out to northern suburbs to do this, where roosters don't have that luxury, but again they could also properly take over that northern section of the city.
As for new clubs, brisbane needs to be first, then if we see the competition improve then there's a case to futher expansion into the western states

 

[ash the bash]

Anyway back to the Dolphins NRL bid.

On NRL reddit there is a post by a knowledgable person in Queensland Rugby league who breaks down all the QLD bids. Well worth a read, not sure if I can post that link here.

He does not include the Western Corridor and frankly I agree with him. You only hear the odd quote from the Jets CEO but nothing else concrete about the bid itself. I think they are gone as a serious contender this time around.

On the Bombers bid he summaries, which I agree with "Massive expenses to start up; No centre of excellence, training facilities, base of operations, leagues club, members or revenue apart from the initial buy in from the investors"

Quite favourable to the Easts "Brisbane Firehawks" bid but thinks the favourite would have to be the Dolphins. This quote is worth mentioning when thinking of things from an NRL point of view.
"The NRL would be looking for revenue and self-sustainability first and foremost"

They won't want another "Searle Gold Coast Titans" again, which hopefully imo means the Bombers will miss out.

 

[Pippen94]

Dolphins will come in as North Brisbane & become one of biggest clubs in NRL.
Location will allow Ipswich, 2nd cbd of Brisbane, to have team some time in short future. Give the people what they want.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Dolphins have been a powerhouse in Queensland since the early 1990s. When the Winfield State League was replaced with the Queensland "Channel 9" Cup in 1996 they were the standout team, despite going down narrowly to the Toowoomba Clydesdales. I think a conversion from the sidelines determined the match, but I could be wrong. It was a great GF, called by arguably the best commentator in the game, David Wright.

Redcliffe won it in 1997, I think it might have been against Easts. Clydesdales got the spoon that year.

Wests took on Norths in 98, with the Devils winning. Adelaide Rams were affiliated with Wests and Melbourne had a set up with Norths.

In 99 it was the Grant Adamson's Burleigh, who beat Redcliffe. Burleigh went on to beat the Great Britain Lions in a warm-up game for the first ever Tri-Nations.

Redcliffe beat Toowoomba in 2000. Same scoreline as the Donkeys vs Turkeys GF at Stadium Australia. I went to this QC GF, known as the Bundy Rum Cup. Big Rob Campbell and Adam Mogg led the way for Redcliffe. Everyone in the Western Stand was giving the Clydesdales' mascot shit, including Kerry Boustead. Kerrod Walters was playing for the Clydesdales. I think the Walker brothers and Corey Parker were playing too. I think Corey shaved his head back in those days.

2001 GF at Dolphin Oval was a beauty, with Toowoomba winning it with a conversion after scoring just on full time.

It was a great time to be alive. Seeing this wonderful Redcliffe team at its peak was a real joy to watch. I really miss those days. Hopefully the Dolphins can add their magic to the NRL

 

[mongoose]

Redcliffe were the Sharks or Panthers of the BRL, 50 years old and won bugger all comps.

Anyway they are no doubt the safe option for expansion and will provide the NRL with some short term additional interest. Can they be a big powerhouse club?... i guess we will see

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Redcliffe were the Sharks or Panthers of the BRL, 50 years old and won bugger all comps.

Anyway they are no doubt the safe option for expansion and will provide the NRL with some short term additional interest. Can they be a big powerhouse club?... i guess we will see

They will be bigger than Canberra and most Sydney clubs.