Redcliffe put their hand up

[mongoose]

You're always going on about how no one cares about the BRL because it died over 30 years ago, yet now you're claiming the Dolphins will fail because they're a BRL club.


WTF?

You can't have it both ways.

There are only 3 bids and they're all tied up with existing BRL brands, so Brisbane 2 will be everything you hate!

Crushers, Chargers and Giants were neutral brands. They sucked and failed.

Broncos were "neutral" as well and they're the biggest Rugby League club in the world.

Cowboys, Knights were too... Storm, Raiders, Warriors....

 

[The Great Dane]

And I'm telling you that no one I knew at school, on the southern side of Brisbane, resonated with the Crushers' brand. That's lived experience that you don't have. You can say it doesn't matter all you like, but at the end of the day you know jackshit about how Brisbaners felt about the Crushers as you weren't living here at the time.

There's a reason why eyewitness evidence is the lowest form of evidence, it's because it's by far the most unreliable.
That's all your lived experience is, eyewitness evidence, and no matter how many times you repeat it it doesn't change the fact that it's meaningless until we have a way to affirm that it is reflective of reality, which you don't.

I've presented to you a club (I could give you another example, in fact I think I have in the past) that did exactly what the Dolphins are doing, three times, and the response they got. The fact that it failed three times, and there's well document public outrage at their brand was a large part of the reason for those failures at least two times, is enough evidence to at least suggest that there is something to this.

You have totally ignored it, and until you have addressed it you've got nothing and there's no point continuing the conversation because you're not fair dinkum.

Here I'll give it to you again, but if you want more information you'll have to do your own research- https://www.theroar.com.au/2014/03/26/canberras-nrc-team-will-be-a-red-and-white-failure/
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...ies-jersey-20151201-glcg7u.html#ixzz3t8jfgF00

 

[The Great Dane]

You're always going on about how no one cares about the BRL because it died over 30 years ago, yet now you're claiming the Dolphins will fail because they're a BRL club.


WTF?

You can't have it both ways.

Barely anyone does care about the BRL, it's a dead league that's been dead for more than a generation and is more or less irrelevant to modern discussions about expansion in Brisbane.

The clubs on the other hand, people care about those, especially the ones that are still relevant in the culture to this day.

If you add up all the people that care about the clubs you have a sizeable group, tens of thousands of people in fact, and if you are going to build a club that can compete with the Broncos you are going to need a sizable portion of that group to buy into the next NRL club.

The best way to make sure that those people don't buy into the new club would be to ask them to support a hated rival, and by bringing in the Dolphins (or Jets or Tigers) as the Dolphins that is exactly what you would be doing.

There are only 3 bids and they're all tied up with existing BRL brands, so Brisbane 2 will be everything you hate!

The fact that you think that I hate the BRL, or any of the BRL (or QRL) clubs shows that you simply don't understand my point of view and haven't really been listening to what I'm saying.

The fact is that I wish them well, but I'm totally neutral on their existence. Which is probably why you struggle to understand my position.

BTW, I don't know enough about the Jets bid since the merger to have an informed opinion on them, but I'd be totally fine with either the Dolphins or Easts getting the license assuming that they make efforts to build a club that will attract a large fan-base and be successful.
Easts are doing that, hence why the Firehawks are currently my preferred Brisbane bid.

Crushers, Chargers and Giants were neutral brands. They sucked and failed.

None of those teams failed because of their branding, in fact when the Chargers were wrapped up they had money in the bank. So yeah.

 

[Perth Red]

Why do you think AwFuL targets kids?

Why do you think AwFuL is kicking RL's arse in the public relations battle?

Hint. It's because they know what kids want and they cater to them. A successful club has a long line of kids wanting to play for them when they grow up, wearing their merchandise and bugging mum and dad to take them to their games. A club without kids supporting them has no future.

Pretty sure Dockers dont appeal to kids lol
pretty’s sure Suns don’t appeal to kids lol
pretty sure port isn’t exactly getting kids frothing at the mouth lol
Wouldnt imagine many kids go to school wanting to be an eel or a Rabbitoh lol

whilst an attractive brand with kids might help it certainly is t the be all and end all of a clubs success and certainly ain’t the reason the crushers dont exist today.

the three biggest brands in nrl are Rabbitohs, Storm and broncos. How excited do you think kids are by any of them?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Broncos were "neutral" as well and they're the biggest Rugby League club in the world.

Cowboys, Knights were too... Storm, Raiders, Warriors....

Kids love horses and heroic people who risk life and limb for a cause. Horses represent strength, power, speed and grace. Go to the Royal Show and you'll see kids playing with the horses.

Raiders, knights and warriors are manly and cool.

What kids don't give a f**k about is cutting vegetation.

How many kids from the city grow up wanting to grow and cut sugar cane?

Pretty sure Dockers dont appeal to kids lol
pretty’s sure Suns don’t appeal to kids lol
pretty sure port isn’t exactly getting kids frothing at the mouth lol
Wouldnt imagine many kids go to school wanting to be an eel or a Rabbitoh lol

whilst an attractive brand with kids might help it certainly is t the be all and end all of a clubs success and certainly ain’t the reason the crushers dont exist today.

the three biggest brands in nrl are Rabbitohs, Storm and broncos. How excited do you think kids are by any of them?

I supported the Townsville Suns when I was a kid. I preferred their brand over the Bullets and Rollers. When I see "Suns" I think of paradise, life, warmth and beaches.

Storms are frightening yet intriguing. Nothing beats a good lightning show.

Everyone loves horses. When the Broncos came into the NSWRL there was a strong reverence of American culture amongst kids. American sports like basketball were booming in Australia. Everyone wanted to be Michael Jordan and Chicago Bulls caps were found everywhere. Kids don't know that a rabbitoh kills rabbits for their meat, but they see the cute little bunny logo and resonate with the cuddly little lagomorph. Bugs Bunny is one of the most popular cartoon characters of all time. You should know this as they're a common pet in England.

Didn't you say the Dockers aren't that popular and are only watched by people who can't get a ticket to see the Eagles?

 

[T-Boon]

the three biggest brands in nrl are Rabbitohs, Storm and broncos. How excited do you think kids are by any of them?

Storm?

 

[Pippen94]

You're always going on about how no one cares about the BRL because it died over 30 years ago, yet now you're claiming the Dolphins will fail because they're a BRL club.


WTF?

You can't have it both ways.

There are only 3 bids and they're all tied up with existing BRL brands, so Brisbane 2 will be everything you hate!

Crushers, Chargers and Giants were neutral brands. They sucked and failed.

Yep, he's f**ked himself with his own flawed logic. Nobody cares about BRL but old rivalries will hope team back.

 

[MugaB]

Yep, he's f**ked himself with his own flawed logic. Nobody cares about BRL but old rivalries will hope team back.

Totally bias on dolphins, all i hear is post on dolphins are a crap bid, but jets bid is basically the same just in a different side of the city, and easts wont get in due to eating into both bronx and titans catchments (PVL on expansion not cannibalizing SEQ)

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

There's a reason why eyewitness evidence is the lowest form of evidence, it's because it's by far the most unreliable.
That's all your lived experience is, eyewitness evidence, and no matter how many times you repeat it it doesn't change the fact that it's meaningless until we have a way to affirm that it is reflective of reality, which you don't.

I've presented to you a club (I could give you another example, in fact I think I have in the past) that did exactly what the Dolphins are doing, three times, and the response they got. The fact that it failed three times, and there's well document public outrage at their brand was a large part of the reason for those failures at least two times, is enough evidence to at least suggest that there is something to this.

You have totally ignored it, and until you have addressed it you've got nothing and there's no point continuing the conversation because you're not fair dinkum.

Here I'll give it to you again, but if you want more information you'll have to do your own research- https://www.theroar.com.au/2014/03/26/canberras-nrc-team-will-be-a-red-and-white-failure/
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...ies-jersey-20151201-glcg7u.html#ixzz3t8jfgF00

None of the NRC teams are popular.
How many people go to their games?
2,000? I couldn't even name a single team that plays in it. That's how unsuccessful it is.

Onionballers are boring snobs who have bizarre attachments to schools and bland shit like flowers (Waratahs, England national team, Welsh national team). There's a reason their game has never caught on with popular society. It's stuck in the 19th century and snobby. Their fans think differently to the rest of us.

Canberra Pansies or Watermelons is probably a brand that would appeal to onionball fans in the ACT.

 

[Pippen94]

That's a whole lot of anecdotes, not a lot of substance.

You don't even live in Brisbane yet here you are acting as an expert on what will work in the area. Any expansion bid should & will survey locals who will be actual fans like dolphins putting name to public vote!!
Getting a John Ribot vibe from you that ppl will like what you give them

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Yep, he's f**ked himself with his own flawed logic. Nobody cares about BRL but old rivalries will hope team back.

He reckons no one knows about it, yet apparently the Dolphins are going to be despised because they're a BRL club. I just don't get his logic.
People who've played against them might hate their guts, but how many people in Brisbane would have been in a position to do that at any level?
People from the southside wouldn't have even played in their division. In the Queensland Cup they're arguably the most popular team in the state. There's a reason the 2001 and 2002 Queensland Cup GFs were taken to Redcliffe Oval when Lang Park was reconstructed.

 

[Pippen94]

Absolute horse shit!

Yankees vs Mets, Jets vs Giants, Utd vs City, Lakers vs Clippers, Boca Juniors vs River Plate, Celtic vs Rangers, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseam.

Seriously, I could go on forever just including most, if not all, of the greatest cross city derbies.

The Crushers didn't fail because of their branding or target audience, so that's just BS.

They had the right idea, they just didn't have the means to pull it off.

I'm wasting my time with you because you refuse to understand none of those teams you listed originated in manner you propose of placing team in same stadium with same name representing same area!!!
That's why it's a stupid idea & if you ran a business that way you'd f**king fail.
Look at the Yankees who play in the Bronx while had rivals in Manhattan & Brooklyn. Both those rivals relocated & mets stepped in to fill void. Can't you see how that is f**king different & not targeting same area!!

Companies spend millions on branding but apparently the shit crushers brand which had no connection to Brisbane & was a F***king train didn't hold club back.

You have some real dumb ideas on business.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I'm wasting my time with you because you refuse to understand none of those teams you listed originated in manner you propose of placing team in same stadium with same name representing same area!!!
That's why it's a stupid idea & if you ran a business that way you'd f**king fail.
Look at the Yankees who play in the Bronx while had rivals in Manhattan & Brooklyn. Both those rivals relocated & mets stepped in to fill void. Can't you see how that is f**king different & not targeting same area!!

Companies spend millions on branding but apparently the shit crushers brand which had no connection to Brisbane & was a F***king train didn't hold club back.

You have some real dumb ideas on business.

NY Jets and NY Giants only exist because one was in the American Football League and the other was in the National Football League when the 2 competitions merged.

Raiders and Rams failed in Los Angeles back in the 90s. The Chargers and Rams are failing there now.

Clippers have never been anything but the poor cousin of the Lakers.

 

[Pippen94]

Yep, it's a total f**king failure that good broadcasting deals (that won't last forever) have helped to paper over for years now.

If you take away millions of dollars in grants from leagues clubs and the NRL, not one of the Sydney clubs would be solvent (with the possible exception of Souths, but that is a very recent phenomena, and who knows how sustainable it is).

You know what that means, not one of these organisations that are supposedly in the business of RL can actually survive off their RL business!

That set of circumstances is exclusively down to the facts that most of them have been terribly run historically, and there's to much competition in Sydney.
If you replicate those circumstances in Brisbane, which is what you are suggesting, you will inevitably replicate the results!

Furthermore, even despite the high broadcasting deals if they were in any other major competition around the world most of them would have been moved on by now.
If they were in a European or British league they would have been relegated into oblivion. If they were North American they would have been relocated to more fertile markets. Either way the result would have been the same; they would have been replaced with more financially stable and successful teams.

League wouldn't exist without audience Sydney teams provide. Competition with rusted on afl cities & regional locations would be watched by crickets. Brisbane can be a powerhouse too but right now shots load on one game a week.
Another flawed business principle from you is not to maximize audience.

Premier league & J league doing OK with multiple teams in one city. Australia has only 5 cities of a million ppl. Why a super league competition won't work here.

 

[Pippen94]

Hey look at you quoting some nobody's baseless opinion again instead of having an original thought of your own.

Let me guess his evidence that that is the case is because he said so, just like your evidence is.

Here's my evidence. Those guys did exactly what the Dolphins are trying to do in the exact way they are trying to do it. They did it three times, each time that was the response, copy them and you'll get the same outcome.

That's not just some BS opinion like you keep spouting, you have to address that and show where the Vikings went wrong and why the Dolphins won't make the same mistakes.

What the hell are you talking about?! The vikings in failed 2nd tier rugby competition?!! I have news for you not only did most teams fail in that competition the whole competition did because it was a 2nd tier feeder league!!!
Can't you find a relevant example (actually there isn't)???

Anybody else starting to hate Canberra because of this guy?!

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

League wouldn't exist without audience Sydney teams provide. Competition with rusted on afl cities & regional locations would be watched by crickets. Brisbane can be a powerhouse too but right now shots load on one game a week.
Another flawed business principle from you is not to maximize audience.

Premier league & J league doing OK with multiple teams in one city. Australia has only 5 cities of a million ppl. Why a super league competition won't work here.

Australia needs multiple RL teams in Sydney and Brisbane. It's where the fans are and the source of its revenue. At a bare minimum, Sydney needs at least 6 or 7 clubs to be strong. We do benefit from the saturation that comes with having so many teams in Australia's most valuable city. I think 9 might be a strain on resources, especially with participation rates falling and the economy being up to shit, so we might see at least 1 team forced to relocate within the next 10 years. If a relocation makes the other 8 teams stronger then that's not necessarily a bad thing for the game in Sydney.

 

[MugaB]

Australia needs multiple RL teams in Sydney and Brisbane. It's where the fans are and the source of its revenue. At a bare minimum, Sydney needs at least 6 or 7 clubs to be strong. We do benefit from the saturation that comes with having so many teams in Australia's most valuable city. I think 9 might be a strain on resources, especially with participation rates falling and the economy being up to shit, so we might see at least 1 team forced to relocate within the next 10 years. If a relocation makes the other 8 teams stronger then that's not necessarily a bad thing for the game in Sydney.

Needs to be a team that doesn't help the league grow in junior participation, and also one that wont leave a large hole in Sydneys catchments that other codes won't get a leg up on.... (ala north sydney)

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

What the hell are you talking about?! The vikings in failed 2nd tier rugby competition?!! I have news for you not only did most teams fail in that competition the whole competition did because it was a 2nd tier feeder league!!!
Can't you find a relevant example (actually there isn't)???

Anybody else starting to hate Canberra because of this guy?!

Yes. He is the very definition of a contrarian. Stubborn as a mule. He would make a great politician for the Greens.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Needs to be a team that doesn't help the league grow in junior participation, and also one that will leave a large hole in Sydneys catchments that other codes won't get a leg up on.... (ala north sydney)

One of Manly or Roosters could relocate, with the surviving team absorbing the other team's catchment.

Sydney Sea Eagles has a good ring to it. Better than Sydney Swans.

 

[T-Boon]

None of the NRC teams are popular.
How many people go to their games?
2,000? I couldn't even name a single team that plays in it. That's how unsuccessful it is.

Onionballers are boring snobs who have bizarre attachments to schools and bland shit like flowers (Waratahs, England national team, Welsh national team). There's a reason their game has never caught on with popular society. It's stuck in the 19th century and snobby. Their fans think differently to the rest of us.

Canberra Pansies or Watermelons is probably a brand that would appeal to onionball fans in the ACT.

Haha. Gold brother.