Redcliffe put their hand up

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Haha conveniently fails to mention subiaco oval capacity of 43k limited their crowds until couple of years ago! Eagles have basically sold out every game for nearly 15 years and had a 7 year wait list for a full ticketed membership. They moved from 35k to 60k couple of years ago and still there's a waitlist for a membership! When's last time Broncos came close to an avg sell out of Suncorp?

They've just hit over 100k members this year despiet Covid and have 9,000 people and growing every year sat waiting for a ticketed membership! Broncos are minnows in comparison.

I am amused that we have managed to get someone who hates the Broncos to become their cheerleader though lol!

If every game from the last 15 years that was played at a 43k capacity stadium was sold out then why did their season averages range from 34,931 and 40,791 between 2003 and 2013?

You keep on bringing up memberships, even though it's been explained to you ad nauseum that they weren't introduced to fans of RL clubs until the last 10-15 years. They've been ingrained in fumbleball culture for well over 50 years. RL fans have traditionally joined the Leagues Club. It will take time for RL fans to adopt something that has been ingrained in fumbleball culture before AwFuL existed.

You've conveniently ignored the fact the Eagles didn't really take off until the Dockers were introduced. The Broncos didn't have that benefit as Super League entered the fray just as the Crushers were introduced. If you were fair dinkum you would acknowledge all of this, but you never do. You're just a biased troll who selectively pieces together fragments of information so you can spin a furphy to promote an agenda. In this case you're trying to argue that extra teams in Brisbane will hurt the Broncos and that the Eagles were always as strong as they are today, and you're doing it because you want the ARLC to bring in a Perth team and do nothing with Brisbane. You're boring and very predictable.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

ReCh9, last tv deal they massively upped their financial commitment from $100mill to $185mill a year. If they were desperate for another Brisbane team they would have demanded it as part of this massive increase in price they paid. The other 16 clubs would have had no say. There wasn't even a murmur that Ch9 have asked for this in any Tv deal in the last 15 years. What TV wants, TV gets.

This is all bullshit.

You don't know what went on behind closed doors.

It's ludicrous to claim the 16 clubs have no say.

Who do you think pushed Greenberg, Gallop, Grant and Smith out of the ARLC?

If the clubs had no say then Smith would have stuck around. The clubs were worried that Foxtel would walk so they gave Smith the boot.

Grant caved into the club's demands to keep his job.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

In history of expansion existing teams never see decrease in crowds, members - that is myth because clubs don't want competition without realizing it actually helps

News Ltd are the opposition. They own the Donkeys and provide the most dough in the broadcast deal. They don't want competition. In every field they've ventured into, from print media to cable TV to football, they've wanted to be the only business on the block.

 

[greenBV4]

They think it is okay for Sydney clubs to average 15k

this isn't ok
some sydney clubs barely/dont even crack 10k

Brisbane 100%-no-doubts-about-it needs a second team asap, i dont think anyone is denying that? the debate going around is and always has been about rushing a 3rd team, especially when as you have pointed out with Sydney, we have real examples of what oversaturating NRL markets can do.

Maybe there will be a 3rd team at some point, but at the moment, after Bris2, there are other markets that need a presence first

Also, personally, I think the 2 club model just works - many cities in big codes around the world aim for 2 teams.

 

[Santino Patane]

F@#c me, you guys are taking all of this WAYYYYY TOOOO FARRRR....... Take a breath, go outside, say g’day to someone you love.

Both arguments are quite correct in some points, and both are missing the point elsewhere. But you’re not changing anyone’s mind (especially each other) by the constant argument. Plus it’s lost a lot of what the Forum was meant to be about.

Here’s the way I see it- SEQ deserve another team in the NRL. It’s overdue to support positive growth in a heartland of the game. The fact that the ARLC Chair brought it up is a minor miracle IMO. Any other new team will only happen 5-10 years later IF #17 is a solid success. That will be it for a long, long time (I think 20-30 years absolute minimum). It is also 100% true that the game should expand to Perth (my personal preference for #18, and I wished sooner rather than later) then Adelaide but I think they will both be a distant idea due to the failings of expansion in the past and the lack of vision in the NRL. It would be awesome to see a third Brissie team but that shouldn’t happen until SEQ #3 is sustainably strong and the game has become truly National.

To bring it back to the thread topic, as a bloke that grew up on the Brisbane Southside and a Titans fan, I’d love to see the Firehawks make it, but Redcliffe’s bid seems to be the one to force the NEL in seriously going for it. If it takes a successful Redcliffe NRL team to wipe the sins of past expansion attempts, then so be it. out

 

[greenBV4]

F@#c me, you guys are taking all of this WAYYYYY TOOOO FARRRR....... Take a breath, go outside, say g’day to someone you love.

Both arguments are quite correct in some points, and both are missing the point elsewhere. But you’re not changing anyone’s mind (especially each other) by the constant argument. Plus it’s lost a lot of what the Forum was meant to be about.

Here’s the way I see it- SEQ deserve another team in the NRL. It’s overdue to support positive growth in a heartland of the game. The fact that the ARLC Chair brought it up is a minor miracle IMO. Any other new team will only happen 5-10 years later IF #17 is a solid success. That will be it for a long, long time (I think 20-30 years absolute minimum). It is also 100% true that the game should expand to Perth (my personal preference for #18, and I wished sooner rather than later) then Adelaide but I think they will both be a distant idea due to the failings of expansion in the past and the lack of vision in the NRL. It would be awesome to see a third Brissie team but that shouldn’t happen until SEQ #3 is sustainably strong and the game has become truly National.

To bring it back to the thread topic, as a bloke that grew up on the Brisbane Southside and a Titans fan, I’d love to see the Firehawks make it, but Redcliffe’s bid seems to be the one to force the NEL in seriously going for it. If it takes a successful Redcliffe NRL team to wipe the sins of past expansion attempts, then so be it. out

i think what will probably/should speed up a 18th team will be to get rid of the bye created by the 17th, so either 1 more comes in or one goes out

As for Redcliffe I definately think their bid is at the top of the pile atm (and it does seem to shift fairly often) - although im also of the belief that when/if the NRL formally calls for bids to come forward we will have many more come out of the woodworks

 

[The Great Dane]

If every game from the last 15 years that was played at a 43k capacity stadium was sold out then why did their season averages range from 34,931 and 40,791 between 2003 and 2013?

The fluctuation comes mainly from away tickets.

The WCE effectively sold out all of their allocation for home tickets for over a decade, however x-amount of tickets need to be set aside to sell to traveling away fans, and those rarely sell out.

You keep on bringing up memberships, even though it's been explained to you ad nauseum that they weren't introduced to fans of RL clubs until the last 10-15 years. They've been ingrained in fumbleball culture for well over 50 years. RL fans have traditionally joined the Leagues Club. It will take time for RL fans to adopt something that has been ingrained in fumbleball culture before AwFuL existed.

If all of those Leagues Club members were actually fans of the teams then every team would have sold a similar amount of memberships for the football team as they do to the Leagues Club.

Of course the reality is that 95% of members of the Leagues Clubs couldn't care less about the footy team, and are members of the club because of the pokies and relatively cheap food and drink.

You've conveniently ignored the fact the Eagles didn't really take off until the Dockers were introduced. The Broncos didn't have that benefit as Super League entered the fray just as the Crushers were introduced. If you were fair dinkum you would acknowledge all of this, but you never do. You're just a biased troll who selectively pieces together fragments of information so you can spin a furphy to promote an agenda. In this case you're trying to argue that extra teams in Brisbane will hurt the Broncos and that the Eagles were always as strong as they are today, and you're doing it because you want the ARLC to bring in a Perth team and do nothing with Brisbane. You're boring and very predictable.

If done wrong extra teams in Brisbane could hurt the Broncos.
Splitting the market too thin is a real danger, and normally that's your point because you want to kill the Broncos by swamping them out of the market, but now that it's convenient you're their biggest supporter lol.

BTW, nobody is denying the SL war or it's effects on the sport, but it'd be nice if some people would get over it. It's honestly ridiculous to blame the SL war for all of RL's problems at this point.

 

[The Great Dane]

F@#c me, you guys are taking all of this WAYYYYY TOOOO FARRRR....... Take a breath, go outside, say g’day to someone you love.

If you don't want to participate in the debate that is your business, but don't go around telling other people how they should act.

To bring it back to the thread topic, as a bloke that grew up on the Brisbane Southside and a Titans fan, I’d love to see the Firehawks make it, but Redcliffe’s bid seems to be the one to force the NEL in seriously going for it. If it takes a successful Redcliffe NRL team to wipe the sins of past expansion attempts, then so be it. out

I honestly can't understand why Redcliffe's bid is considered so good, it's one of the most flawed bids from Brisbane.

I mean imagine if there was only one team in Sydney, let's say in Eastern Sydney, and we were looking to add a second team but ignored the giant market in Western Sydney and added Manly on their small peninsula instead. That's what bringing Redcliffe in instead of a team in Southern Brisbane would be like.

Imagine if any other bid team came along suggesting that they'd regularly play games out of a 'stadium' that will hold only 11.5k. they'd be laughed out of the room!

But for some reason the Dolphins get away with it because they are a "traditional" club with a "traditional" brand, and people have nostalgia for "good old days" that weren't as good as they remember them and couldn't be brought back even if they were.

 

[RL The greatest game]

i think what will probably/should speed up a 18th team will be to get rid of the bye created by the 17th, so either 1 more comes in or one goes out

As for Redcliffe I definately think their bid is at the top of the pile atm (and it does seem to shift fairly often) - although im also of the belief that when/if the NRL formally calls for bids to come forward we will have many more come out of the woodworks

The sooner we have a 2nd NRL team in Brisbane the better, but we all agree it must be done with everything in place before they enter the comp

 

[Vee]

This thread and others are a lot less painful now I've put GROTD on Ignore.

 

[flippikat]

BTW, nobody is denying the SL war or it's effects on the sport, but it'd be nice if some people would get over it. It's honestly ridiculous to blame the SL war for all of RL's problems at this point.

The SL war actually gave us a number of advancements in rules (especially 40/20 and video ref) & expansion teams in Melbourne and Adelaide.

Sad fact is that wars often accelerate innovation more than peacetime, because there's a drive to innovate with an aim to weaponize anything that's developed.

In World War 2 it was advancements in everything from submarines, to inventing radar, to the first ballistic missiles & atomic bombs... In the Superleague war, it was innovations like better player salaries, TV-friendly scheduling, rule changes to make the games more "attractive" to fans, expansion to reach more markets etc.. to try and get an advantage over the opposition.

IMO (and it's a view I've repeatedly stated), the badly bungled peace settlement did more harm *long term* than the war itself.

 

[mongoose]

The two Perth AFL clubs would have a bigger active following than the three clubs in Brisbane, and in a smaller city.
AFL in Perth: Avg combined Att 94.5k and combined memberships of 152k
Winter sports in Brisbane avg att 71.4k combined membership 73k

yeah I don't really know why the Broncos don't sell out every game (they probably had a valid excuse this season, even without COVID). Sadly It's just RL culture to watch on TV rather than attend or become a member. If they played more games on sunday afternoon or even early Saturday their crowds would get a boost.

 

[Perth Red]

yeah I don't really know why the Broncos don't sell out every game (they probably had a valid excuse this season, even without COVID). Sadly It's just RL culture to watch on TV rather than attend or become a member. If they played more games on sunday afternoon or even early Saturday their crowds would get a boost.

But then they wouldn't be worth as much to ch9 lol
I get the Friday night impact on families but the flip side is that its a great night to get younger adults along to games, especially given the location and surroundings of Suncorp.
Apathy and the game not being as popular as we all like to think are probably key reasons. I dont see the level of fanatiscm in the same numbers for NRL clubs as I see for AFL clubs, and across a much broader demographic range. I'm still amazed after 20 years how many women in perth are fully into AFL and go to games religiously, even without hubbie.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

I know plenty of girls / women who are in to rugby league.

But would attend 1 game a year if lucky.

I think the biggest issue for RL is timeslot and fan engagement.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

this isn't ok
some sydney clubs barely/dont even crack 10k

Why are people so obsessed with NRL clubs not drawing the same number of attendees as AwFuL, EPL and NFL?

The NRL is the highest attended club competition for either code of "rugby" in the world.

English RU Club Competition
Gallagher Premiership 19/20 Home
Leicester Tigers
19,786 (5 games)
Bristol Bears
17,131 (4 games)
Bath
14,175 (4 games)
Harlequins
13,900 (4 games)
Gloucester
13,806 (5 games)
Northampton Saints
13,128 (5 games)
Exeter Chiefs
12,003 (4 games)
London Wasps
10,965 (4 games)
Worcester Warriors
7,925 (4 games)
Saracens
7,083 (5 games)
Sale Sharks
6,588 (4 games)
London Irish
4,831 (4 games)
Total
11,905

https://rugby.statbunker.com/competitions/HomeAttendance?comp_id=609

French Top 14 18/19
French RU Club Competition

Racing CF
20,866 (1 game)
Clermont Auvergne
18,674 (2 games)
Toulouse
18,669 (2 games)
La Rochelle
16,000 (2 games)
Grenoble
11,750 (2 games)
Castres
11,744 (2 games)
Lyon OU
13,527 (1 game)
Stade Francais
9,623 (1 game)
Agen
9,298 (1 game)
TOTAL
14,785

https://rugby.statbunker.com/competitions/HomeAttendance?comp_id=584

Going by those numbers we can say all 16 clubs are doing really well.

So why does Perth Red and mongoose single out Brisbane as the only place in the entire world that must have over 40k attending the Broncos and another 30k for Brisbane 2?

The arguments against Redcliffe and Ipswich are always that these teams will not draw 35k.

So what if they don't?

The Broncos are the only "rugby" club in the world that draws upwards of 33k to its home games. That makes them an outlier, not the norm. To expect Brisbane 2 to pull off something that no other "rugby" club in the world has been able to manage after more than 100 years is unrealistic.

 

[mongoose]

But then they wouldn't be worth as much to ch9 lol
I get the Friday night impact on families but the flip side is that its a great night to get younger adults along to games, especially given the location and surroundings of Suncorp.
Apathy and the game not being as popular as we all like to think are probably key reasons. I dont see the level of fanatiscm in the same numbers for NRL clubs as I see for AFL clubs, and across a much broader demographic range. I'm still amazed after 20 years how many women in perth are fully into AFL and go to games religiously, even without hubbie.

I actually notice a lot of women at Broncos games, in groups too. Perhaps other NRL teams could do more to attract women but I don't think it's an issue for the Broncos. I would say suncorp being modern and well lit plus its central location make it more secure for females to attend.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Soooooo.... how about those Dolphins

 

[Perth Red]

I know plenty of girls / women who are in to rugby league.

But would attend 1 game a year if lucky.

I think the biggest issue for RL is timeslot and fan engagement.

I'm not saying there arent a lot of women into RL, my wife is one, but not at the same level of interest that I see here, and certainly not in the commitment to being members and going to games. Maybe games here are more of an an event and somewhere for the girls to go for a night out together, not sure.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Soooooo.... how about those Dolphins

They're my pick for the 17th licence. The fact they're located north of City of Brisbane is a huge bonus. The geographic difference between them and Broncos will make it easier for kids to decide who they're going to support.

 

[mongoose]

Why are people so obsessed with NRL clubs not drawing the same number of attendees as AwFuL, EPL and NFL?

The NRL is the highest attended club competition for either code of "rugby" in the world.

English RU Club Competition
Gallagher Premiership 19/20 Home
Leicester Tigers
19,786 (5 games)
Bristol Bears
17,131 (4 games)
Bath
14,175 (4 games)
Harlequins
13,900 (4 games)
Gloucester
13,806 (5 games)
Northampton Saints
13,128 (5 games)
Exeter Chiefs
12,003 (4 games)
London Wasps
10,965 (4 games)
Worcester Warriors
7,925 (4 games)
Saracens
7,083 (5 games)
Sale Sharks
6,588 (4 games)
London Irish
4,831 (4 games)
Total
11,905

https://rugby.statbunker.com/competitions/HomeAttendance?comp_id=609

French Top 14 18/19
French RU Club Competition

Racing CF
20,866 (1 game)
Clermont Auvergne
18,674 (2 games)
Toulouse
18,669 (2 games)
La Rochelle
16,000 (2 games)
Grenoble
11,750 (2 games)
Castres
11,744 (2 games)
Lyon OU
13,527 (1 game)
Stade Francais
9,623 (1 game)
Agen
9,298 (1 game)
TOTAL
14,785

https://rugby.statbunker.com/competitions/HomeAttendance?comp_id=584

Going by those numbers we can say all 16 clubs are doing really well.

So why does Perth Red and mongoose single out Brisbane as the only place in the entire world that must have over 40k attending the Broncos and another 30k for Brisbane 2?

The arguments against Redcliffe and Ipswich are always that these teams will not draw 35k.

So what if they don't?

The Broncos are the only "rugby" club in the world that draws upwards of 33k to its home games. That makes them an outlier, not the norm. To expect Brisbane 2 to pull off something that no other "rugby" club in the world has been able to manage after more than 100 years is unrealistic.

No one is saying Brisbane must have teams with attendances between 30k and 40k but why wouldn't that be the aim of an expansion club in a Rugby League mad city? I don't expect a second Brisbane team to be as big and popular as the Broncos but they could be close to.

Who knows maybe Redcliffe could be a big club drawing over 25k but not if they play most of their games at Dolphin oval.