Rnd 4 Team vs Wtigers

[lingard]

But I agree we work harder - that is the key to our attack and defence. We always have plenty of movement off the ball and we get numbers into the tackle. We have recruited and retained forwards that mostly fit this style, so fatigue shouldn't be an issue. But maybe the heat becomes more of a factor with our style? We certainly crumbled when Penrith dominated possession in the middle of that game, plus the entire 80 minutes against Manly.

Fatigue is definitely an issue. The idea that smaller players handle the heat better than bigger players is a myth. Each player's make up is different. Bottom line is, you work harder in the heat, you get more fatigued. Players like Andrew Fifita and James Tamou don't have to expend as much energy to break the line as, say, Nathan Brown or Manu Ma'u. In the heat, that becomes a very significant factor.

 

[lingard]

Been saying for years that a small pack has to pass the ball to tire the big packs out but our middle forwards in particular are almost devoid of doing so. Instead they use themselves as battering rams and eventually they get worn down by the bigger packs.

And that, despite what we all want to think, doesn't come down to player attitude, it comes down to coaching.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Fatigue is definitely an issue. The idea that smaller players handle the heat better than bigger players is a myth. Each player's make up is different. Bottom line is, you work harder in the heat, you get more fatigued. Players like Andrew Fifita and James Tamou don't have to expend as much energy to break the line as, say, Nathan Brown or Manu Ma'u. In the heat, that becomes a very significant factor.

Fitter players certainly handle the heat better than less fit ones, but you're right that the size of a person doesn't correlate to fitness. However smaller players (generally) are able to do more work than larger players without fatiguing, assuming equal fitness.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

And that, despite what we all want to think, doesn't come down to player attitude, it comes down to coaching.

But it doesn't - what you see as running one out you assume to be the coach's instructions, however Arthur always talks about improving 'effort areas', which include support play.

So without support play, even if the player has no merkin running with him, he still has to run the ball. Somebody has to, whether there is a support runner or not. So maybe you should change the way you look at it and blame the players not running in support. It's one thing I like about Beau Scott - when he comes on his support play is noticeable, even though he never gets the ball. It gets defenders interested in him and not in the ball carrier. He's obviously noticed the team drop off in their work off the ball, and it's his job to correct that.

It is entirely an attitude issue, because failing to move without the ball is a shortcut that allows a player to recover more quickly.

 

[lingard]

Fitter players certainly handle the heat better than less fit ones, but you're right that the size of a person doesn't correlate to fitness. However smaller players (generally) are able to do more work than larger players without fatiguing, assuming equal fitness.

Larger players have more momentum than smaller ones, so they don't expend as much energy trying to break the line. And it's not about having a whole pack full of big players (or small players) it's about having enough big players in your pack to provide that momentum for the smaller forwards to take advantage of.

 

[lingard]

But it doesn't - what you see as running one out you assume to be the coach's instructions, however Arthur always talks about improving 'effort areas', which include support play.

Coaches often instruct their players to run one out. Depends on your personnel. I guess we're coming from two different directions here. I'm assuming that Brad Arthur is a very good coach - but not perfect. You seem to be assuming that he's a lot more than a very good coach, who seemimgly couldn't make mistake. The obvious deduction, then, would be that anything that goes wrong on the field must necessarily be the fault of the players.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Larger players have more momentum than smaller ones, so they don't expend as much energy trying to break the line. And it's not about having a whole pack full of big players (or small players) it's about having enough big players in your pack to provide that momentum for the smaller forwards to take advantage of.

Well nobody denies you need some big blokes in your pack, including Brad Arthur - we have Evans, Williams and Vae in our squad.

 

[lingard]

Well nobody denies you need some big blokes in your pack, including Brad Arthur - we have Evans, Williams and Vae in our squad.

One is an Easts reject and the other two haven't played this year. We need to buy at least one very good large forward. Two would be better.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Coaches often instruct their players to run one out. Depends on your personnel. I guess we're coming from two different directions here. I'm assuming that Brad Arthur is a very good coach - but not perfect. You seem to be assuming that he's a lot more than a very good coach, who seemimgly couldn't make mistake. The obvious deduction, then, would be that anything that goes wrong on the field must necessarily be the fault of the players.

It's nothing to do with 'making mistakes', it is about the level of risk required to compete in an uneven competition (due to TPAs). There is a lot of uncertainty in rugby league, despite fans having all the answers as soon as a team loses a couple of games. Coaches have to balance pros and cons, risk and reward. Some of their decisions will appear to work and others won't. The ones that didn't weren't 'mistakes'; they were necessary risks the coach knew carried a chance of failure. The decisions he appeared to get right also carried a risk of failure. The point is that all this randomness doesn't even out in just three or four games. That's why they play 24 games before deciding who gets to play in the finals.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

One is an Easts reject and the other two haven't played this year. We need to buy at least one very good large forward. Two would be better.

Evans is no reject any more than Jordan McLean is a Storm reject - the salary cap means clubs can't retain all their players.

Vae and Williams have been injured.

 

[hindy111]

Its nothing to do with size but power. Gallen or lewis or Graheme arent big. They are hard tough aggressive men. Evans, T rex and Vave are not.

Brown is an example of this. By far our best forward. And for that reason.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

We have plenty of 'hard tough aggressive' forwards. But you do need some size as well. The Sharks have Fifita. We have a couple of options. This week it's Tony Williams. He has size and footwork. Hopefully he can cope with the workload required.

 

[lingard]

We have plenty of 'hard tough aggressive' forwards. But you do need some size as well. The Sharks have Fifita. We have a couple of options. This week it's Tony Williams. He has size and footwork. Hopefully he can cope with the workload required.

Well, you know, I think you have to have a bit of quality with your size.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Well, you know, I think you have to have a bit of quality with your size.

You can only fit so much quality under your salary cap. You can have all the size you like but.

 

[lingard]

You can only fit so much quality under your salary cap. You can have all the size you like but.

Perhaps Brad should have thought of that before he stacked our pack (and our salary cap) with smallish, aggressive forwards.

 

[Gazzamatta]

Perhaps Brad should have thought of that before he stacked our pack (and our salary cap) with smallish, aggressive forwards.

And larger, average, less agressive forwards.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Perhaps Brad should have thought of that before he stacked our pack (and our salary cap) with smallish, aggressive forwards.

They fit the play style he's after. You know, the one that finished top four last year? Why would he change that for 2018?

He said he wanted more height so he got Evans and Williams, and brang Takairangi into the pack. It's more than enough size. It's just unfortunate that our three biggest forwards were injured during the pre-season.

 

[lingard]

They fit the play style he's after. You know, the one that finished top four last year? Why would he change that for 2018?

He said he wanted more height so he got Evans and Williams, and brang Takairangi into the pack. It's more than enough size. It's just unfortunate that our three biggest forwards were injured during the pre-season.

They fit the play style he's after. You know, the one that finished top four last year? Why would he change that for 2018?

He said he wanted more height so he got Evans and Williams, and brang Takairangi into the pack. It's more than enough size. It's just unfortunate that our three biggest forwards were injured during the pre-season.

Williams, Evans and Taka are not quality forwards. And BA might consider changing the style he's after because we only got to fourth spot via a lot of luck, Semi Radradra, and a bunch of smaller forwards using the unsustainable tactic of playing out of their skins. I think BA made a big mistake by thinking he could get away with this for another year.

 

[hineyrulz]

Pou Pou Excusebar has an answer for everything.

 

[Suitman]

Pou Pou Excusebar has an answer for everything.

That's why I don't understand why people keep arguing with him.