Round 10 Vs Warriors

[franklin2323]

Our players are small and soft last night we got man handled by a much bigger stronger warriors side. We have the biggest junior nursery of league in the world and by the looks of it there all midgets no size or speed.If we have to look elsewhere then so be it but go find some big strong fast outside backs and a hulking front rower or 2 for christ sake.

See the Paasi try our hulking 2nd rower just watched our midgets get steamrolled

 

[Andy_P]

See the Paasi try our hulking 2nd rower just watched our midgets get steamrolled

Obviously a bit of a protest from Kikau - when you get tired of being the panthers only game plan in attack. 'What - do I need to be our game plan in defence as well? - F**k you guys'.

 

[hindy111]

Cleary I guess should be given time to build the team.
It is not his fault you have no hooker. Katoa is terrible. Also lack a quality fullback. Fix these two spots first and work from there. Centres and wing players are good enough and the forwards and halves are fine. Another powerfull Prop wouldn't hurt however.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Cleary I guess should be given time to build the team.
It is not his fault you have no hooker. Katoa is terrible. Also lack a quality fullback. Fix these two spots first and work from there. Centres and wing players are good enough and the forwards and halves are fine. Another powerfull Prop wouldn't hurt however.

We can’t score in the last 20, not sure the halves are fine.

We have the lowest tackle to point ratio in the final 20.

 

[hindy111]

We can’t score in the last 20, not sure the halves are fine.

We have the lowest tackle to point ratio in the final 20.

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If forwards are not getting a fast play the ball then halves wont do anything.

 

[mxlegend99]

Our players are small and soft last night we got man handled by a much bigger stronger warriors side. We have the biggest junior nursery of league in the world and by the looks of it there all midgets no size or speed.If we have to look elsewhere then so be it but go find some big strong fast outside backs and a hulking front rower or 2 for christ sake.

From the opening minute we were being driven back.

To'o looked like a kid playing against men. He might be the most skilled winger through the lower grades. But we need to work on the genetic freaks.

We have plenty of them yet they end up elsewhere.

 

[unKwn]

From the opening minute we were being driven back.

To'o looked like a kid playing against men. He might be the most skilled winger through the lower grades. But we need to work on the genetic freaks.

We have plenty of them yet they end up elsewhere.

Allan Fitzgibbon. looks tall and is fast as f**k

 

[herbert henry1908]

If forwards are not getting a fast play the ball then halves wont do anything.

I think there’s a middle ground there. Sure the forwards have a role to play, but we’ve had the same problem for years now. We can’t score in the last 20. The common denominator is Nathan Cleary.

 

[franklin2323]

I think there’s a middle ground there. Sure the forwards have a role to play, but we’ve had the same problem for years now. We can’t score in the last 20. The common denominator is Nathan Cleary.

A few cases spring to mind. When Leota dropped it that set was just short balls. Another set. Same thing spread it on the last. The grubbers early in the set all come to the halves

 

[herbert henry1908]

A few cases spring to mind. When Leota dropped it that set was just short balls. Another set. Same thing spread it on the last. The grubbers early in the set all come to the halves

It’s definitely not all the halves fault, but the trend shows we can’t score in the last 20.

Under Griffin we were at least scoring tries from 30-40 meters out, that’s dried up with Ivan’s style of play.

 

[Flashstep]

There is many more problems with the team other than Nathan Cleary, the sad thing is he is our best spine player which shows we’ve built a very poor team.

He’s trying he’s heart out but there’s nothing he can do, we have 2 reserve grade hookers doing nothing around the ruck, all 3 fullbacks we’ve tried are passengers in attack, Maloney and Cleary can’t just create miracles out of thin air, every opposition team has worked out just mark the 2 halves and Kiaku and Penrith won’t score. It’s just far to easy to defend.

The true common denominator is that we’ve had 2 piss poor attacking coaches for years, you can put any halfback and 5/8 into Penrith right now and very little if anything would change.

The club has f**ked itself for the next 5 years, we simply can not afford to release another coach to early, our salary cap is most likely in ruins yet again and over the years we’ve let everyone else pick up the talent that went onto the market whilst at the same time we have let some good players go, we are in a massive hole and I don’t see a way out for a very long time.

 

[Pomoz]

If forwards are not getting a fast play the ball then halves wont do anything.

That is a myth. In several games this year, we have played the ball faster than our opponents. The forwards aren't necessarily killing it, but they have certainly delivered enough field position for the team to score. Those games were:

Eels (3.15 vs 3.67)
Tigers (3.47 vs 3.57)
Sharks (3.25 vs 3.7)
South's (2.97 vs 3.32)
Tigers (3.15 vs 3.32)
Warriors (3.47 vs 3.59)

Let's be clear, we have had faster play the ball speed in 6 out of 10 games and we beat the Knights when we had a slower play the ball speed than them.

It has been posted on here that Cleary coached teams finish bottom or 2nd bottom in attack over a number of seasons showing how poor he is at coaching attack. He has James Maloney, a proven rep quality playmaker with premierships under his belt, loads of big game experience and more than half an idea of how to get teams to score. In 9 seasons he averages 16 try assists a year. Last year when Cleary was injured he run the team and by all accounts the attack coaching and we were winning games. This year he seems to be letting Nathan do more, but he is still getting us multiple repeat sets so we can build pressure. We have had 332 tackles in the opposition 20 for a total of 21 tries. By way of perspective, the Roosters have 216 tackles in the opposition 20 for a total of 44 tries.

We can't beat the bare facts. Who is responsible for creating tries? Surely it is the spine players with the halves the primary providers. Certainly the players in the NRL top 20 try assist table are all spine players except for Latrell Mitchel and Kenny Bromwich. Our spine is average at best. Our backs are ridiculously error prone and have very little in the way of playmaking skills. Gus has to take some responsibility for that, since he greatly influenced recruitment. However, it hasn't been a problem for three years.

My personal view is the problem is not the forwards. It is:

1. The team isn't fit or strong enough. A common theme with Cleary teams. Witness the years of injuries we had in his first stint at Panthers. Errors and penalties happen when a team is fatigued and we tick both those boxes.

2. Cleary can't coach attack and the stats he has delivered in his career prove this. His game plans are devoid of creativity and flair. He wants mistake free, steady hit ups and then to score when we are in the red zone. How is that working out?

3. Having a coach with his son playing in the team is a massive conflict of interest and other players would resent the nepotism. I just can't see how it can work and the signs are there that it isn't. What happens when he has a stinker? Will he get dropped? His errors shown up in video sessions? Will he be tried at hooker? Gower and Johns whom are far superior players to Cleary had a spell there. It is so glaringly obvious that he should be given a run there and put Luai into the halves.

It should never have been allowed. If he wants to coach his son, then we should have let Nahan go. He has never, ever, shown he was going to be an elite level halfback. Good, steady, Mitchel Pearce quality at best and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[TheFrog]

3. Having a coach with his son playing in the team is a massive conflict of interest and other players would resent the nepotism.

This may or may not be a problem, and I doubt it is THE problem. There must be someone in the club who can ask the players this confidentially (Ciraldo? Wallace?) It's not like you can drop Nathan Cleary anyway, his form doesn't warrant it, although last night wasn't good.

Maloney looks like missing a game so Luai will get his chance. He looked better last night than he has all year.

He has never, ever, shown he was going to be an elite level halfback. Good, steady, Mitchel Pearce quality at best

A bloke who played 15 Origins.

 

[The yak]

The club has f**ked itself for the next 5 years, we simply can not afford to release another coach to early, our salary cap is most likely in ruins yet again and over the years we’ve let everyone else pick up the talent that went onto the market whilst at the same time we have let some good players go, we are in a massive hole and I don’t see a way out for a very long time.

Surely we can't put up with 3-5 years of these type of performances?
Memberships will go down, crowds will go down and merchandise sales will go down.

Maybe its worth thinking about a settlement for Cleary and hiring a rookie coach like O'Brian to turn the club around and head off more financial pain.
Another 4 years like this will cost us more than getting rid of him end of the year or next year.

 

[franklin2323]

It’s definitely not all the halves fault, but the trend shows we can’t score in the last 20.

Under Griffin we were at least scoring tries from 30-40 meters out, that’s dried up with Ivan’s style of play.

That is it for me. We would get to just over the halfway and spread it. Now it is just one up

 

[Flashstep]

Surely we can't put up with 3-5 years of these type of performances?
Memberships will go down, crowds will go down and merchandise sales will go down.

Maybe its worth thinking about a settlement for Cleary and hiring a rookie coach like O'Brian to turn the club around and head off more financial pain.
Another 4 years like this will cost us more than getting rid of him end of the year or next year.

I agree but it’s likely the board has completely screwed the club with Ivan’s contract, it wouldn’t surprise me if the contract contained a clause such as if he was Sacked he would receive every cent that he is owed on his 5 year contract, that’s 5 million down the drain and don’t forget we’re probably still paying off Griffin.

 

[franklin2323]

Surely we can't put up with 3-5 years of these type of performances?
Memberships will go down, crowds will go down and merchandise sales will go down.

Maybe its worth thinking about a settlement for Cleary and hiring a rookie coach like O'Brian to turn the club around and head off more financial pain.
Another 4 years like this will cost us more than getting rid of him end of the year or next year.

Less FTA too so sponsorship will drop

 

[TheFrog]

Maloney facing a grade 1 dangerous contact for a late push in the back on Nikorima that the refs missed. It looked like not much in it but it was late. It's a week whether he pleads guilty or goes to the judiciary, with his carry-overs.

 

[age.s]

I remember being coached by a players dad in a soccer team in my early 20s. We had a pretty friendly squad but there was plenty of tension around it, even in things as small as substitutions or training drills. We were playing for nothing more than beers at Castle Hill tavern, I can only imagine that 6 figure salaries, the glare of the media and scrutiny of tens of thousands of fans would amplify the potential for conflict.

Uniting them was a terrible idea. Indulgent and risky. Not sure how much it's contributing but I find it hard to imagine it's helping.

 

[Pomoz]

Pearce....

A bloke who played 15 Origins.

Never mind he got dropped for Reynolds and Hodgkinson, he would not have been picked for QLD and would have been behind Thurston, Cronk, Morgan, DCE, Boyd, Munster, Inglis and Lockyer in the halves. That doesn't cut it at elite level in my view. He was good, but not great.

This may or may not be a problem, and I doubt it is THE problem. There must be someone in the club who can ask the players this confidentially (Ciraldo? Wallace?) It's not like you can drop Nathan Cleary anyway, his form doesn't warrant it, although last night wasn't good.

Something clearly isn't right at the club, I agree it isn't THE problem but I suspect it is definitely a big part of it.