Round 13 - Dolphins

[justadragon]

No teams play that flat attack anymore, except us. It doesn't work anymore. Wish they'd wake up to that.

100% Draginzaar, it seems the Dragons have had a love affair with flat attack for years, I guess our marvelous coaches thought that was a good idea with our power house forwards that we dont have.

 

[dungay dragon]

Well DH, he does and I blame that purely on Hook and B (C)#unt.

Bud was the best of the 3 Amigos tonight in my opinion, Hook and B (C)#unt have sabotaged his game time and minutes in 1st grade for the last 2 seasons over the preference to support a player that could be doing some serious jail time.

Also, 2IC coach Carr-loss picked a tiny pack against the Phins one which didn't help Sullivan, plus a shitty game plan (stolen from Hooks notes) which seemed too much control for said jailbird.

Sullivan did a lot of great tackling in the middle and was gassed from it despite nearly scoring a solo towards the end.

This game should have started with Bird @ 6, Musgrove in the pack, and Hammer left right out or at best 14 and given 15 mins towards the end, as Sullivan has been for the last couple of seasons.

Thats DD no need to be nasty.Everyone is entitled their opinion, just because yours varies is fine, that what forums are about
Sullivan had a wonderful opportunity last night to show us all what he can do but sadly for varying reasons it didnt happen. Would be totally pissed off if the game plan was to catch n pass n kick.Dont play eyes up or off the cuff footy.
What was Sloan doing at first receiver ? for ffs ...
There was no one in charge when we had the ball
With the exception of JDB 61 tackles and Liddle the rest were ineffective
The heads went down as soon as the Phins got their fair share of ball.
Our on line defence was amateur hour
Whoever our new Coach is im hopeful ALL Contracts will be reviewed inc our two sets of brothers Feagai and Molo ..Matt is a liability with the high ball and his defence . Molos lack thrust and size , but they arent alone ..
We lack size n mongrel in our forward pack
A cleanout is needed and then perhaps our much hyped juniors will get an opportunity to show their wares

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

Now that the dust has settled, and I've calmed down a tad, we simply were gassed after 30 mins of the first half...for whatever reason lack of possession beit 6 agains, poor refereeing dumb errors, bad options lack of cohesion etc etc....as we all realise this current outfit/set up will not be a quick fix....we all knew it was coming, back in the McGregor years through to Griffin and now we are paying the price (No pun intended).....in the interim Amone is not the answer to our 5/8 spot he obviously has issues outside of the game so it pointless persevering with him.... Jack Bird imo is now more of a liability than an asset, his style of play just stimifies our cohesion and go forward....Mbye adds nothing hes far to slow and one dimensional.......the Molo brothers are toilers at best but not our future....for mine the jury is still out with Sloan at times I think yes and at other times I think nah hes not got the frame or temperament....anyhow I could go on and on but I'm just highlighting what we all know.
Its obvious by the growth and progression of most of the lower teams in the comp that we are going nowhere with our current roster and sadly are not heading in the right direction.
As difficult as it is we have to resign ourselves to the fact we will be just limping our way to season end...hopefully (theres that word again) that season 2024 will bring us a bit more joy.

 

[Coffs dragon]

There’s about 6 blokes (Max) in that team last night that you would keep! I hope Ryles & Co. have a decent broom.

The 1st to go should be Bird….he can happily fly away elsewhere.
We need size, power & grunt upfront and a serious injection of speed in the backline. In other words a Miracle!

 

[Victoire]

Captain Jack De Belin was a liability.

His defensive read for that Nicholls try was as bad as you'll ever see. If Tyrell Sloan made a read like that we'd be calling for his head, but De Belin is supposed to be our defensive leader. He didn't even get close enough to miss the tackle! Dreadful. And then to follow it up with a penalty and a sin bin was unforgivable. Aside from that his "ballplaying" is a Paul Gallen-esque handbrake to the attack. Move him out of lock permanently please.

 

[Dragon David]

Notice the ‘give Zac quality ball / teach him footwork/ give clean ball’ creeping back into the forum. Zac is simply an ordinary and quite pedestrian player who can kick goals and cracked a fabulous long term big bucks contract. Good luck to Zac. He is in his 6th full NRL season and signed until 2026 I understand. I’m hoping there is a fast powerful centre somewhere coming through in lower grades.

Noticed in the early stages of the first half that the players were actually using the ball and passing it wide and running well. One time Lomax was given the ball out wide and he had plenty of space and a chance to run pass a tackler coming over but Lomax lacked pace to beat him. To me Lomax lacks the quality of a player like Mark Gasnier who, if that ball was passed to him, would have got into top gear and ran the length of the field to score.

Lomax has been very lucky to have been signed up on big money for a long period and in all of that time has only shown limited highlights for a player thought by Freddy to be in line for Origin selection. Freddy was misguided I think.

 

[mickeylane]

I don’t know what it is but I feel less angry after a loss w Carrs interviews compared to Hooks.. I guess he speaks w some football sense

 

[rasaint]

Good post Blood Shot Eyes. Sensible summing up. No one has to knock the effort of our current group. They want to win and they are trying play by play to pull off something leading to a try. The issue is we are stacked (not all) with pedestrian players who can compete for stages in a match but IMO not NRL good standard.


Tyrell looks wonderful floating across the ground and once or twice made a top break with shear speed. Last week under pressure made a nice ‘kick pass’ over to Feagai. Yet, generally doesn’t look like troubling anyone. Kick returns seem to always be picked up and pushed backwards. Over the past 5 years all the top hyped juniors seem to turn out pretty ordinary; examples Lomax, Feagai brothers, Amone, Ford. Saab and Garrick were let go and both speedsters doing well at Manly. So recruitment maybe a big issue.

My concern is a top line backrower like Sua now reports say wants to leave if possible. Yep, is it that Wollongong is not generally where players want to go?( It’s a nice place but down the coast a long way).

Any way will continue to cheer the team on. For the record, I’d have Hornby if an internal coach to be recruited. A leader who captained our winning 2010 club and Bennet loved him.

 

[Slippery Morris]

The Dolphins were simply much better than Saints and deserved the win. They reminded me of the Saints during the Bennett years. Simple effective footy. Hardly any errors, defence was great and forwards getting past the advantage line.

The ref starved the Saints of possession for about 20 mins which contributed to them being so gassed. Up until then it was tight. Apparently Carr mentioned something in his press conference about the inconsistencies by the ref which I have not seen yet but heard from someone. If so how refreshing having a coach from Saints say something about the refs.

The Saints were lucky to make 30 meters a set. How can any half play on the back of that? The forwards really did them no favours in laying a platform. Amone was getting a lot of ball. He is not really justifying his selections week in and week out. Not sure what the story is there. This season is all about giving these young kids more game time in the NRL and then to re-assess. Bagging these kids each week won't help. 2019 Penrith had a team full of kids - Edwards, Chrichton, Luia, To'o, Cleary, Leota, Kikau, Martin, etc. They finished 10th. Griffin left in 2018. It took a year post Griffin to get these kids playing their natural game again. As Gus said, he coached the footy out of them. Once they got 50 games under their belts they excelled. Bud and Sloan should be closer to that 50 game mark by now but have been blocked hence their delay in hitting their straps. Bud's 3rd year and played his 10 game yesterday. Sloan's 3rd year and yesterday was game 24. Amone is up to game 44 so he should definitely be playing much better.

Sloan is copping a bagging but he really did not have many opportunities to do anything last night. Super coach Bennett put a plan in to nullify the kid and it worked. Watching Buller at the Tigers though you can't help but wonder why he has taken off like a house on fire in a struggling team and Sloan hasn't. I never even heard of Buller until now where as Sloan was getting wraps deluxe from all over the place as the next big star. The experts must surely see something in Sloan to make them feel that way. I suppose the Tigers pack is playing a lot better than Saints are so that makes it easier for Buller. Saints backs are on the back foot most of the time. Hardly much 2nd phase play or quick play the balls out wide.

 

[DynamicTed]

The Dolphins were simply much better than Saints and deserved the win. They reminded me of the Saints during the Bennett years. Simple effective footy. Hardly any errors, defence was great and forwards getting past the advantage line.

The ref starved the Saints of possession for about 20 mins which contributed to them being so gassed. Up until then it was tight. Apparently Carr mentioned something in his press conference about the inconsistencies by the ref which I have not seen yet but heard from someone. If so how refreshing having a coach from Saints say something about the refs.

The Saints were lucky to make 30 meters a set. How can any half play on the back of that? The forwards really did them no favours in laying a platform. Amone was getting a lot of ball. He is not really justifying his selections week in and week out. Not sure what the story is there. This season is all about giving these young kids more game time in the NRL and then to re-assess. Bagging these kids each week won't help. 2019 Penrith had a team full of kids - Edwards, Chrichton, Luia, To'o, Cleary, Leota, Kikau, Martin, etc. They finished 10th. Griffin left in 2018. It took a year post Griffin to get these kids playing their natural game again. As Gus said, he coached the footy out of them. Once they got 50 games under their belts they excelled. Bud and Sloan should be closer to that 50 game mark by now but have been blocked hence their delay in hitting their straps. Bud's 3rd year and played his 10 game yesterday. Sloan's 3rd year and yesterday was game 24. Amone is up to game 44 so he should definitely be playing much better.

Sloan is copping a bagging but he really did not have many opportunities to do anything last night. Super coach Bennett put a plan in to nullify the kid and it worked. Watching Buller at the Tigers though you can't help but wonder why he has taken off like a house on fire in a struggling team and Sloan hasn't. I never even heard of Buller until now where as Sloan was getting wraps deluxe from all over the place as the next big star. The experts must surely see something in Sloan to make them feel that way. I suppose the Tigers pack is playing a lot better than Saints are so that makes it easier for Buller. Saints backs are on the back foot most of the time. Hardly much 2nd phase play or quick play the balls out wide.

The Dolphins were simply much better than Saints and deserved the win. They reminded me of the Saints during the Bennett years. Simple effective footy. Hardly any errors, defence was great and forwards getting past the advantage line.

The ref starved the Saints of possession for about 20 mins which contributed to them being so gassed. Up until then it was tight. Apparently Carr mentioned something in his press conference about the inconsistencies by the ref which I have not seen yet but heard from someone. If so how refreshing having a coach from Saints say something about the refs.

The Saints were lucky to make 30 meters a set. How can any half play on the back of that? The forwards really did them no favours in laying a platform. Amone was getting a lot of ball. He is not really justifying his selections week in and week out. Not sure what the story is there. This season is all about giving these young kids more game time in the NRL and then to re-assess. Bagging these kids each week won't help. 2019 Penrith had a team full of kids - Edwards, Chrichton, Luia, To'o, Cleary, Leota, Kikau, Martin, etc. They finished 10th. Griffin left in 2018. It took a year post Griffin to get these kids playing their natural game again. As Gus said, he coached the footy out of them. Once they got 50 games under their belts they excelled. Bud and Sloan should be closer to that 50 game mark by now but have been blocked hence their delay in hitting their straps. Bud's 3rd year and played his 10 game yesterday. Sloan's 3rd year and yesterday was game 24. Amone is up to game 44 so he should definitely be playing much better.

Sloan is copping a bagging but he really did not have many opportunities to do anything last night. Super coach Bennett put a plan in to nullify the kid and it worked. Watching Buller at the Tigers though you can't help but wonder why he has taken off like a house on fire in a struggling team and Sloan hasn't. I never even heard of Buller until now where as Sloan was getting wraps deluxe from all over the place as the next big star. The experts must surely see something in Sloan to make them feel that way. I suppose the Tigers pack is playing a lot better than Saints are so that makes it easier for Buller. Saints backs are on the back foot most of the time. Hardly much 2nd phase play or quick play the balls out wide.

Great analysis, Slippery.

 

[Dragon David]

Too right mate, we are definitely going to be on that merry go round again. Even the new coach who ever that may be , they all want extended terms because they know its going to take a long time to get this shit fight into some order,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,maybe )

Unfortunately justa no matter who has been or will be our coach from Mary to Hook to Carr to ? the rebuilding keeps going and the more rebuilding we do, the more destruction there will be to the club's reputation - which has fallen significantly. For how long will all this take? The new coach, just like Hook, will need to get some new players signed up, they will be his favourites, like Mary and Hook had and we know how that all ended.

I think that Ryles has stated that for him to agree to coach us we would need to get a better General Manager of Football and a better R & R guy. I hope that Ryles himself can manage the players and be able to talk to them normally not like Hook's "you played shit" and let the players work out their own problems.

We just cannot afford to have the same rubbish with the new coach - because so far to me, all we seem to be doing is putting on a different head on the coaches neck and getting the same useless results.

 

[baggygreen man]

Sullivan had a wonderful opportunity last night to show us all what he can do but sadly for varying reasons it didnt happen.

Agree. Sadly he is no better a ball player, game manager than Hunt or Amone, who is developing a neat last second chip kick, one of which created our first try. He is taking himself almost to the line, committing tacklers then chipping. Takes skill. Sloan got his hands on the ball more and looks a far better player when he does. Still like to see him given a crack in the halves.

 

[justadragon]

Unfortunately justa no matter who has been or will be our coach from Mary to Hook to Carr to ? the rebuilding keeps going and the more rebuilding we do, the more destruction there will be to the club's reputation - which has fallen significantly. For how long will all this take? The new coach, just like Hook, will need to get some new players signed up, they will be his favourites, like Mary and Hook had and we know how that all ended.

I think that Ryles has stated that for him to agree to coach us we would need to get a better General Manager of Football and a better R & R guy. I hope that Ryles himself can manage the players and be able to talk to them normally not like Hook's "you played shit" and let the players work out their own problems.

We just cannot afford to have the same rubbish with the new coach - because so far to me, all we seem to be doing is putting on a different head on the coaches neck and getting the same useless results.

You are right Dave, the whole lot probably from when Bennett left has been neglected, compounding mistakes with coaches, pathways issues, the list goes on and on. So now it has been left festering for so long that it is just a monumental task to get the Dragons back to where they are competitive. It's a long haul and its going to take some really good people and a lot of money to bring us back. Without really experienced people anyone would find the situation very daunting.

 

[baggygreen man]

Amone is up to game 44 so he should definitely be playing much better.

Griffrin tried to turn him from a running 5/8 into a play making one. Hello Amone IS NOT A NATURAL ORGANISER and despite his effort to become one, he is falling short. So find a game managing half and give Junior a license to play his natural game.

 

[Slippery Morris]

Watching Liddle play last night backing up last weeks great display, surely had everyone stumped why Mbye got selected ahead of him. I personally think with him Saints beat the Tigers and Dogs and we are on 12 Competition points. 4 ahead of the Dogs and 6 ahead of the Tigers. Liddle was used less as soon as he was extended a couple of years.

My only reasoning I can think of is that Hook was against the re-signing and wanted possibly Mbye to be extended and was trying to prove his point. Looks like Haran went over the top of Hooks call and made the right one by extending Liddle. If so own it Haran because that is a great call, or am I giving him credit? Now this is just my assumption (conspiracy theory) but I cannot really think of any other reason? Liddle was great hence why he did get extended yet his game time dropped significantly shortly after that. Like Lomax he did not get a reason for his dropping either.

 

[Dragon David]

Captain Jack De Belin was a liability.

His defensive read for that Nicholls try was as bad as you'll ever see. If Tyrell Sloan made a read like that we'd be calling for his head, but De Belin is supposed to be our defensive leader. He didn't even get close enough to miss the tackle! Dreadful. And then to follow it up with a penalty and a sin bin was unforgivable. Aside from that his "ballplaying" is a Paul Gallen-esque handbrake to the attack. Move him out of lock permanently please.

We lack true leadership. A person who can communicate effectively, lead by example, play the game in the right spirit, be able to read the game, apply whatever game plans and set plays as trained for accurately, represent the players in a well mannered way when talking to the officials, be able to get all the players to rally around as a team to fight for the win, be prepared to alter plan A for plan B as soon as things need changing, make sure players don't give penalties and six agains by being more aware by having greater attention to detail. There would of course be more stuff so who do we have that has these qualities?

 

[dungay dragon]

We lack true leadership. A person who can communicate effectively, lead by example, play the game in the right spirit, be able to read the game, apply whatever game plans and set plays as trained for accurately, represent the players in a well mannered way when talking to the officials, be able to get all the players to rally around as a team to fight for the win, be prepared to alter plan A for plan B as soon as things need changing, make sure players don't give penalties and six agains by being more aware by having greater attention to detail. There would of course be more stuff so who do we have that has these qualities?

Watched Sloan close up esp at First Reciever
Dont know what he was doing there but anyway.......
Was sharp elusive and offerred good service wide till BIRD stymied the attack
Wouldnt get rag dolled as much at 6
What do we have to lose ?? Perhaps Amone to 1

 

[baggygreen man]

I am on the same page with my mate @Illusion on the 'three amigos'.
Hunt is a good individual player and stands out in an ordinary team. Hunt was payed and still is being payed big money to steer the team around. but as you say the guy has had a long time in the 7 and continues to be as you say " rudderless " Just on Sully not a great game last night , but we are judging him and the young guys on a few games ( Sully , Sloan ) , Amone a year or so ...... Throw Sloan , Sully , Amone in a top 6 team not a bottom 3 team and they wont struggle. We need a new pack that make ground , and a 7 that can control a game ........ .......

 

[Dragon David]

The Dolphins were simply much better than Saints and deserved the win. They reminded me of the Saints during the Bennett years. Simple effective footy. Hardly any errors, defence was great and forwards getting past the advantage line.

The ref starved the Saints of possession for about 20 mins which contributed to them being so gassed. Up until then it was tight. Apparently Carr mentioned something in his press conference about the inconsistencies by the ref which I have not seen yet but heard from someone. If so how refreshing having a coach from Saints say something about the refs.

The Saints were lucky to make 30 meters a set. How can any half play on the back of that? The forwards really did them no favours in laying a platform. Amone was getting a lot of ball. He is not really justifying his selections week in and week out. Not sure what the story is there. This season is all about giving these young kids more game time in the NRL and then to re-assess. Bagging these kids each week won't help. 2019 Penrith had a team full of kids - Edwards, Chrichton, Luia, To'o, Cleary, Leota, Kikau, Martin, etc. They finished 10th. Griffin left in 2018. It took a year post Griffin to get these kids playing their natural game again. As Gus said, he coached the footy out of them. Once they got 50 games under their belts they excelled. Bud and Sloan should be closer to that 50 game mark by now but have been blocked hence their delay in hitting their straps. Bud's 3rd year and played his 10 game yesterday. Sloan's 3rd year and yesterday was game 24. Amone is up to game 44 so he should definitely be playing much better.

Sloan is copping a bagging but he really did not have many opportunities to do anything last night. Super coach Bennett put a plan in to nullify the kid and it worked. Watching Buller at the Tigers though you can't help but wonder why he has taken off like a house on fire in a struggling team and Sloan hasn't. I never even heard of Buller until now where as Sloan was getting wraps deluxe from all over the place as the next big star. The experts must surely see something in Sloan to make them feel that way. I suppose the Tigers pack is playing a lot better than Saints are so that makes it easier for Buller. Saints backs are on the back foot most of the time. Hardly much 2nd phase play or quick play the balls out wide.

Great post Slippery. Sloan played really well in the first game against the Dolphins and Bennett made sure that he was shut down and pressure applied to nullify him in this game. Bennett is too good and he knows how to win games. He made sure that we couldn't score in the second half. Oh to have a coach like him again.

 

[baggygreen man]

Captain Jack De Belin was a liability.

You do him a disservice. He is week in week out our best player, our workhorse, he cant make every bloody tackle, there are 12 other blokes in the team. Last four games he has made, 45, 37, 40, 44 tackles, I think there is a 50 plus one during the season too. Do admit tho with all his cred his low hit that had him binned and on report was a bit of a brain explosion.