Round 14 Vs Sharks

[WestyLife]

Penalty yes.
Penalty Try - depends if you think he already lost it before the hit

Which he didn't.

 

[BxTom]

Yeah I've said all along these two points aren't crucial. Just rest them. Ivan isn't particularly brilliant though.

Yep, take the opportunity to play the NSW Cup halves etc in NRL - a little bit of long term planning. It also give us a chance to see if they are NRL material - there's lots players that flop after looking great in reserves.

 

[snickers007]

Yep, take the opportunity to play the NSW Cup halves etc in NRL - a little bit of long term planning. It also give us a chance to see if they are NRL material - there's lots players that flop after looking great in reserves.

Lots of players have bonuses built into their contracts which get activated if they play NRL. This of course comes out of the salary cap.

Also gives the player more bargaining power when renegotiations occur, as well as giving our competitors a free look at the goods.

Could also impact their development if they are promoted too soon, they could lose all their confidence.

 

[mxlegend99]

big difference doing it on NRL debut though

You said no half is going to do it behind a badly beaten forward pack. Which is true. At all levels. A half playing off the back foot with 43% possession, poor field position, a 10% slower play the ball and no time or space when his dummy half finally feeds him the ball can't be expected to single handedly win games.

Yet that is what you expected from Cleary. Which is ridiculous. He did more than any reasonable person would expect under the circumstances.

Throwing any half behind a pack not doing their job is going to give the same result. Burton got a glimpse of how tough life will be at Bulldogs unless they fix their pack up... And how tough creating stuff will be if he has no help from his hooker or halves partner.

 

[franklin2323]

You said no half is going to do it behind a badly beaten forward pack. Which is true. At all levels. A half playing off the back foot with 43% possession, poor field position, a 10% slower play the ball and no time or space when his dummy half finally feeds him the ball can't be expected to single handedly win games.

Yet that is what you expected from Cleary. Which is ridiculous. He did more than any reasonable person would expect under the circumstances.

Throwing any half behind a pack not doing their job is going to give the same result. Burton got a glimpse of how tough life will be at Bulldogs unless they fix their pack up... And how tough creating stuff will be if he has no help from his hooker or halves partner.

I'd have to watch the game again to find specifics but:

Badly beaten forward pack in SOO 3?

QLD forward metres

Welsch 77
Papalli 90
Kaufusi 110
Capewell 82
Tino 140
Collins 165
Arrow 93
Sua 22

Total 749

NSW

Saifiti 140
Haas 35
Crichton149
Frizzell 48
Jake T 98
Paulo 110
Yeo 108
Finucane 83

Total 771

Total runs were 199 QLD. 195 NSW

Total kicks QLD 27-26

Cleary kicked a 40/20. Which I don't think we scored off

Kick metres NSW 840- 600

From memory it was the lack of variation on the last that I thought was poor.

Bombs NSW 8-5
Grubbers QLD 10-3

The lack of pressure from a good kick or different kicks allowed quick play the balls and the QLD back 3 to start sets better which led to the possession etc instead of the pack.

Take the play the ball speeds from the back 3

QLD
Holmes 3.06s
Edrick Lee 2.41s
Allan 3.96s

NSW
Tedesco 3.99s
Tupou 3.41s
JAC 4.08s

That allows the QLD line to get set sooner. Which in turn means you make no metres early in sets.

Club games Cleary and Reynolds are the best at controlling the tempo. Controlling this sort of stuff.

Except for possession everything is close stats wise. Which leads to poor kick/chase as being the huge issue

Take errors
NSW 11- QLD 10

Penalties NSW 7-6
6 agains 3 all

Missed tackles
QLD 26 - NSW 22

Forced Drops outs
QLD 2-1

So most of the stats across the board was even. It was ending sets and starting sets that was the issue

 

[WestyLife]

I'd have to watch the game again to find specifics but:

Badly beaten forward pack in SOO 3?

QLD forward metres

Welsch 77
Papalli 90
Kaufusi 110
Capewell 82
Tino 140
Collins 165
Arrow 93
Sua 22

Total 749

NSW

Saifiti 140
Haas 35
Crichton149
Frizzell 48
Jake T 98
Paulo 110
Yeo 108
Finucane 83

Total 771

Total runs were 199 QLD. 195 NSW

Total kicks QLD 27-26

Cleary kicked a 40/20. Which I don't think we scored off

Kick metres NSW 840- 600

From memory it was the lack of variation on the last that I thought was poor.

Bombs NSW 8-5
Grubbers QLD 10-3

The lack of pressure from a good kick or different kicks allowed quick play the balls and the QLD back 3 to start sets better which led to the possession etc instead of the pack.

Take the play the ball speeds from the back 3

QLD
Holmes 3.06s
Edrick Lee 2.41s
Allan 3.96s

NSW
Tedesco 3.99s
Tupou 3.41s
JAC 4.08s

That allows the QLD line to get set sooner. Which in turn means you make no metres early in sets.

Club games Cleary and Reynolds are the best at controlling the tempo. Controlling this sort of stuff.

Except for possession everything is close stats wise. Which leads to poor kick/chase as being the huge issue

Take errors
NSW 11- QLD 10

Penalties NSW 7-6
6 agains 3 all

Missed tackles
QLD 26 - NSW 22

Forced Drops outs
QLD 2-1

So most of the stats across the board was even. It was ending sets and starting sets that was the issue

That's not mostly even.

 

[franklin2323]

Lots of players have bonuses built into their contracts which get activated if they play NRL. This of course comes out of the salary cap.

Also gives the player more bargaining power when renegotiations occur, as well as giving our competitors a free look at the goods.

Could also impact their development if they are promoted too soon, they could lose all their confidence.

And Falls is a development player and we would need an exemption for him to play

 

[franklin2323]

That's not mostly even.

View attachment 49265

View attachment 49266

Possession is the only one not even though.

Even total sets

QLD 44. NSW 43

Runs QLD 199 NSW 195

Forced drop out QLD 2-1 ( So not much change in possession there)

Penalties NSW won 11-10
6 agains 3 all.

I'd have to watch it again and see where the NSW errors were but all the backs except JAC had a handling error

If they were coming off the line. That explains the extra possession certainly wasn't due to the pack getting owned

 

[WestyLife]

And Falls is a development player and we would need an exemption for him to play

Development players could play from round 11.

Possession is the only one not even though.

Even total sets

QLD 44. NSW 43

Runs QLD 199 NSW 195

Forced drop out QLD 2-1 ( So not much change in possession there)

Penalties NSW won 11-10
6 agains 3 all.

I'd have to watch it again and see where the NSW errors were but all the backs except JAC had a handling error

If they were coming off the line. That explains the extra possession certainly wasn't due to the pack getting owned

QLD had more run metres, post contact metres, faster play the ball etc.

 

[Smug Panther]

Development players could play from round 11.



QLD had more run metres, post contact metres, faster play the ball etc.

The QLD pack ran all over our peahearts

 

[WestyLife]

The QLD pack ran all over our peahearts

Yep made to look like a pack of cats and Fittler picked a terrible team but it's easier to circlejerk about cleary because he's the hakfback and NRL fans hate how the media like him. He outplayed DCE who's the Aus/QLD halfback in game 3.

 

[mxlegend99]

@franklin2323 Queensland's average set was 20% more than NSW. We averaged 32m per set and were starting from on our goal line more often than not. Queensland were starting closer to half way.

The fact we had almost the same amount of sets yet Queensland had 30% more time with the ball tells it all.

Its ridiculous that you say no half can do shit off 30 metres sets behind a badly beaten forward pack yet change the goals immediately when it's Cleary in Origin.

Edit
Tell me which half in the game you think could have won the game? Munster or DCE? For mine you change Nathan with either of them and Queensland win by more. No one's winning a game in a team with only 3 or 4 guys performing at that level.

 

[franklin2323]

@franklin2323 Queensland's average set was 20% more than NSW. We averaged 32m per set and were starting from on our goal line more often than not. Queensland were starting closer to half way.

The fact we had almost the same amount of sets yet Queensland had 30% more time with the ball tells it all.

Its ridiculous that you say no half can do shit off 30 metres sets behind a badly beaten forward pack yet change the goals immediately when it's Cleary in Origin.

Edit
Tell me which half in the game you think could have won the game? Munster or DCE? For mine you change Nathan with either of them and Queensland win by more. No one's winning a game in a team with only 3 or 4 guys performing at that level.

Look at the play the ball speed from the back 3. That is why the sets went further.

looking at the stats. I have no idea where the 40 extra tackles NSW made came from.

Like QLD had 44 sets to NSW 43. NSW had an extra penalty so without knowing where the hell that extra possession is it is hard to answer

The QLD play the ball speed would show a poor kick chase

@franklin2323 Queensland's average set was 20% more than NSW. We averaged 32m per set and were starting from on our goal line more often than not. Queensland were starting closer to half way.

The fact we had almost the same amount of sets yet Queensland had 30% more time with the ball tells it all.

Its ridiculous that you say no half can do shit off 30 metres sets behind a badly beaten forward pack yet change the goals immediately when it's Cleary in Origin.

Edit
Tell me which half in the game you think could have won the game? Munster or DCE? For mine you change Nathan with either of them and Queensland win by more. No one's winning a game in a team with only 3 or 4 guys performing at that level.

I have no idea where the extra 40 tackles came from. Even errors are even so without that hard to answer

But we did more bombs, less grubbers and their back 3 got quicker play the balls. So more varied end to the sets would be the 1st issue

 

[mxlegend99]

Look at the play the ball speed from the back 3. That is why the sets went further.

looking at the stats. I have no idea where the 40 extra tackles NSW made came from.

Like QLD had 44 sets to NSW 43. NSW had an extra penalty so without knowing where the hell that extra possession is it is hard to answer

The QLD play the ball speed would show a poor kick chase


I have no idea where the extra 40 tackles came from. Even errors are even so without that hard to answer

But we did more bombs, less grubbers and their back 3 got quicker play the balls. So more varied end to the sets would be the 1st issue

Did you even watch the game?

Because it sounds like all you're trying to do is look for comparable stats and ignore what actually happened on the field... And try to justify why a team having 30% more time with the ball is not a big deal. If you watched the game you would know where that possession came from. And why most of our kicks were bombs

We did more bombs because we were kicking from our 30 and 40 metre line more often than not. You think a few grubbers, cross field kicks and so on were the way to go?

Our 40/20 to finally get us into attacking position ended up being undone by a Cody Walker error after Queensland were holding us down. Cleary did make some mistakes of his own too. But he was one of only 3 players actually making anything happen after Tedesco went off the field. Yet he's the one who didn't do enough when he really couldn't have done more


Again I ask.. what half would have won the game with 43% possession and the bulk of that possession being in his own half? No half in the game today would have been able to win that game in those circumstances.

And why is it at club level you think a half can do nothing with no ball and no go forward, yet at rep level against the Australian halves with 57% ball and all the field position you think Cleary should have somehow been able to win us that game? Swap him with either half and he's on the winning team and no one questions why they couldn't win.

 

[Pomoz]

Franklin, just stop already. QLD smashed our forwards. Forget the stats, watch the game. They had more aggression, more energy and they stood over us. Our halves were playing in their own half all night.

 

[franklin2323]

Franklin, just stop already. QLD smashed our forwards. Forget the stats, watch the game. They had more aggression, more energy and they stood over us. Our halves were playing in their own half all night.

Genuine question. Why don't the stats show that though? Like set counts are even, penalties even, repeat sets are even the same. NSW packed gained more metres even.

Backs were the huge difference

 

[Pomoz]

Genuine question. Why don't the stats show that though? Like set counts are even, penalties even, repeat sets are even the same. NSW packed gained more metres even.

Backs were the huge difference

The backs were given space by the pack. Forwards win games, the backs decide by how much.

 

[franklin2323]

@franklin2323 Queensland's average set was 20% more than NSW. We averaged 32m per set and were starting from on our goal line more often than not. Queensland were starting closer to half way.

The fact we had almost the same amount of sets yet Queensland had 30% more time with the ball tells it all.

Its ridiculous that you say no half can do shit off 30 metres sets behind a badly beaten forward pack yet change the goals immediately when it's Cleary in Origin.

Edit
Tell me which half in the game you think could have won the game? Munster or DCE? For mine you change Nathan with either of them and Queensland win by more. No one's winning a game in a team with only 3 or 4 guys performing at that level.

Look at the play the ball speed from the back 3. That is why the sets went further.

looking at the stats. I have no idea where the 40 extra tackles NSW made came from.

Like QLD had 44 sets to NSW 43. NSW had an extra penalty so without knowing where the hell that extra possession is it is hard to answer

The QLD play the ball speed would show a poor kick chase.

Tedesco going off was the big one. He stays on NSW win

 

[The_Frog]

Which he didn't.

This is the rule:

(d) the Referee may award a penalty try if, in his opinion, a try would have been scored but for the unfair play of the defending team.

There was a swinging arm by Jennings that contacted both the ball and the head of the ball carrier (albeit with not a great amount of force hence it was a grade 1). We're talking semantics here. If the swinging arm had not contacted the head, the try would still not have been scored. I'd argue that the ball was knocked out legally whereas the high shot was illegal. The fact that they happened within milliseconds or which happened first is irrelevant.

Anyway its better that this decision goes against us in a game we were losing anyway, rather than a GF as happened last year.

 

[franklin2323]

The backs were given space by the pack. Forwards win games, the backs decide by how much.

So the kick return of QLD 200m. NSW 138m

Had no say in the field position?