Round 23 v Souths. Posts by @iamback are all opinion based

[WestyLife]

I don’t really like carrying an outside back but the coach doesn’t have a utility forward he trusts to cover centre besides salmon so I can see the reasoning, I do believe you need an option to cover the backs these days. It seems to me and I could be wrong about this but it seems a couple of the posters who are unhappy with staines on the bench were not long ago arguing for Turuva to be on the bench which is a bit mind boggling. With our top 5 backs fit there will be absolutely no difference when staines or Turuva gets on the field, injury or maybe at the end of a game that is already decided. Realistically salmon coming off the bench has been getting 10 minutes? If that. Besides when he’s had to cover injuries of course. 10 minutes is not a lot of minutes he has basically been there all year for injury cover.

Originally I figured falls would've been better at half and salmon on the bench but either way once Cleary and Luai are back it'll be different anyway so not a big deal.

 

[Whino]

Latrell has played 5 games against us as a Souths player. He hasn't won any of them!
He would have made a big difference in last year's GF

 

[Munky]

Latrell has played 5 games against us as a Souths player. He hasn't won any of them!
He would have made a big difference in last year's GF

This was the closest they've got in those games.

I think if Latrell plays the GF they score more points, except so do we with a better victory margin. Latrell is terrible at the grind and is good for a brain explosion.

 

[Whino]

I reckon Canberra win out. They'll beat the KNIGHTS and MANLY at home. I'd back them to beat TIGERS away if it's for the top 8.

Parra unsure. Could lose all 3 but I have a feeling they will win out and make a charge then get barrelled out week 2 AGAIN.

SHARKS will finish 2nd.

All other positions are up for grabs. Storm vs Brisbane tonight's huge. As is Roosters vs STORM next week.

Who is your preferred opponent in week one of the finals? I assume you don't want to play Souths given their wood on you.

 

[chrisD]

Don't get the SOS wraps, he fought for us and happy to have him as a back up but last night proved he doesn't have the talent to be a starting half back.

 

[betcats]

Bunnies have Cows and Roosters to finish the year, they could easily finish 8th which will make it very tough for them, the way they drift in and out of games they will be hard pressed to through the GF that way i think.

I thought SOS was pretty good last night, kicked well for the most part, nice 40/20. He should've had another try assist with that grubber for Martin but he did have a few bad moments in attack where he made the wrong decision or pass but he is a back up so that is probably expected.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Fwiw, I reckon the team we most likely play in week 1 of the finals is the Cowboys. Followed by Storm and then Sharks. Sharks have a super easy run home, Storm a little tougher and Cowboys have to play us & Souths in Sydney.

 

[Iamback]

Fwiw, I reckon the team we most likely play in week 1 of the finals is the Cowboys. Followed by Storm and then Sharks. Sharks have a super easy run home, Storm a little tougher and Cowboys have to play us & Souths in Sydney.

Storm are hard to get a read on. If Roosters form is true then they should beat Storm next week, Parra also seem to fire up against them. Cowboys should be 3rd in that case

 

[Iamback]

Bunnies have Cows and Roosters to finish the year, they could easily finish 8th which will make it very tough for them, the way they drift in and out of games they will be hard pressed to through the GF that way i think.

I thought SOS was pretty good last night, kicked well for the most part, nice 40/20. He should've had another try assist with that grubber for Martin but he did have a few bad moments in attack where he made the wrong decision or pass but he is a back up so that is probably expected.

A few times he blasted Salmon's side for not being in position, So hard to put the attack being out on just him. It is what is to be expected with backup halves

 

[Sime_11]

Tay May was outstanding coming out of our half - so many tough runs and getting great set starts with Edwards - deserves a mention

Salmon looked dangerous down that edge late in the game and helped Martin to get a roll on and make up for his bombed double tonight - he could have had a hat trick last night !!!

Big call from Ivan playing Api from the bench and it comes up trumps - fair play to him and the coaching staff. It will happen again next week against the Warriors if Api plays.

another trophy in the cabinet to proudly display !!! Lets Go Panthers !!!!

 

[hindy111]

Who is your preferred opponent in week one of the finals? I assume you don't want to play Souths given their wood on you.

Brisbane or Raiders
They are both capable of a stinker.
Parra can't defend fast backs. Roosters and Souths would be a nightmare and I'd rather the Sharks or Cowboys. At our best we can beat them along with Storm. I don't think we can beat Souths or Chooks

 

[hindy111]

Don't get the SOS wraps, he fought for us and happy to have him as a back up but last night proved he doesn't have the talent to be a starting half back.

His kicking game was sublime if ask me.

 

[The Realist]

Starting with the positives.

Yeo was very good and Edwards was solid. The Kenny/Api switch worked a treat. It was also pleasing to see Kenny do well as a forward when Api was on. Typically he is weal as a forward but thought he at least held his own this game.

Taylan May was fantastic - I honestly believe he is our best outside back

The most pleasing effort last night though was Spencer Leniu. That was by far his best game for us this season.

The Negatives were obvious to all.

Martin with his absolute clangers. This brings me to the 2nd negative, People are also forgetting Martin is a member of the edge that was getting Carved. One of the reasons that Salmon kept on turning inside in defence is that Martin was slow covering Salmons inside.

This does not absolve Salmon who was poor defensively. Doesn't have the speed, agility nor the decision making to defend well in the position. It is not really his 'fault' as he is a reserve that hasn't been training or playing in the position consistently with us. It is what it is but Salmon was awful defensively.

Before this game I would have labelled Critta is a top 2 Defensive centre but he was atrocious last night. Not all of it was his fault but there were a 1/2 dozen times he rushed infield so far he was deep in the forwards and that left To'o exposed. It isn;t so bad if he shut down the play or made the tackles but he missed a fair bit.

And that leads us to To'o. My favourite player since his debut. Exposed many times this game. It is something I noticed post Origin and it is getting worse. Even with the defensive errors of his inside men he is going too far infield and doesn't have the speed to recover. His confidence looks completely shot to the point he is barely 1//2 the player he normally is with ball in hand. He needs a rest.

I suppose that leads us to Cleary. I think many here were underestimating his importance to our team defensively. Everyone is quick to praise Dyl with his organising and covering but Nathan is equally important - at least on that side of the field. The best defensive half in the game. Nearly as big/strong as a forward but with good speed/agility and great decision making. Also a great organiser.

And lastly - our biggest weakness. Ivan Cleary's bench. WTF are we doing here? A winger whose only other possible position is mediocre fullback play? Crazy! Get a forward in there! A 2nd rower who can play centre is the best option as Crichton can play wing/fullback if an outside back gets injured. I am guessing this is why we have Garner coming next year.

 

[Iamback]

Starting with the positives.

Yeo was very good and Edwards was solid. The Kenny/Api switch worked a treat. It was also pleasing to see Kenny do well as a forward when Api was on. Typically he is weal as a forward but thought he at least held his own this game.

Taylan May was fantastic - I honestly believe he is our best outside back

The most pleasing effort last night though was Spencer Leniu. That was by far his best game for us this season.

The Negatives were obvious to all.

Martin with his absolute clangers. This brings me to the 2nd negative, People are also forgetting Martin is a member of the edge that was getting Carved. One of the reasons that Salmon kept on turning inside in defence is that Martin was slow covering Salmons inside.

This does not absolve Salmon who was poor defensively. Doesn't have the speed, agility nor the decision making to defend well in the position. It is not really his 'fault' as he is a reserve that hasn't been training or playing in the position consistently with us. It is what it is but Salmon was awful defensively.

Before this game I would have labelled Critta is a top 2 Defensive centre but he was atrocious last night. Not all of it was his fault but there were a 1/2 dozen times he rushed infield so far he was deep in the forwards and that left To'o exposed. It isn;t so bad if he shut down the play or made the tackles but he missed a fair bit.

And that leads us to To'o. My favourite player since his debut. Exposed many times this game. It is something I noticed post Origin and it is getting worse. Even with the defensive errors of his inside men he is going too far infield and doesn't have the speed to recover. His confidence looks completely shot to the point he is barely 1//2 the player he normally is with ball in hand. He needs a rest.

I suppose that leads us to Cleary. I think many here were underestimating his importance to our team defensively. Everyone is quick to praise Dyl with his organising and covering but Nathan is equally important - at least on that side of the field. The best defensive half in the game. Nearly as big/strong as a forward but with good speed/agility and great decision making. Also a great organiser.

And lastly - our biggest weakness. Ivan Cleary's bench. WTF are we doing here? A winger whose only other possible position is mediocre fullback play? Crazy! Get a forward in there! A 2nd rower who can play centre is the best option as Crichton can play wing/fullback if an outside back gets injured. I am guessing this is why we have Garner coming next year.

To'o was better, It is hard on the wing when the inside guys are going so bad
Critta had to come in. The plan was to shut down Lattrell and the rest of that side is slow. He scored a try from the pressure and only missed a tackle so it wasn't like it was a total bust

We missed 24 tackles, Martin missed 4 and Kiks 6 that probably sums up how poorly the edges worked. It gives the side something to work on...Which is what you want at this time of the year

 

[The Realist]

We missed 24 tackles, Martin missed 4 and Kiks 6 that probably sums up how poorly the edges worked.

Kikau has had a great season but he is starting to make more errors and miss more tackles. Had a similar late season (Finals) Fade in 2020.

This is why I am ardently against a winger on the bench. Need a forward who can take 10 mins a game off a tired Kikau and Martin.

In saying that at least 1 of Kikau's misses was a super cover attempt at a winger scoring in the corner. Most 2nd rowers wouldn't even be bothered to try or if they did, wouldn't get as close as he did.

I much prefer a team that has those type of 'misses' than a team that has less missed tackles on individual stat sheets - but gives away more points.

It goes to show with our defensive systems over the last 3 years. We give away tackle breaks, metres, line breaks etc but usually do enough so that cover can clean up. Over this period there have been plenty of games where we have done poorly on these type of metrics (40-50+ Missed Tackles) and Ivan just shrugs it off - because the scorelines say we average around 13 points a game conceded. End Results are what matters.

 

[betcats]

Both edges were being stripped fairly easily at times and im not taking a shot a SOS or salmon but I think Luai/Cleary will improve that a lot based on their experience organising their edges and defensive combinations. Also gotta credit Souths there was some sublime passing in there, they do it very well. Their two tries in the second half, the passing for the Campbell Graham try was so quick and perfect it would've been hard to stop at the best of times and then the next one Cody walker throws a really nice cut out as he is being hit, again that is pretty hard to stop no matter who is out there.

 

[maple_69]

Edges are tough to defend. Look at Melbourne. Couple guys out and their whole side is blown apart regularly. We have two of the best defensive halves out. It screws the whole edge because they all have to be on the same page about sliding vs jamming etc. Let's see how they look with those guys back.

We were also intentionally playing a much more compacted defensive line to pressure Souths and keep them hemmed in. They had to play counter attack all night as a result. Obviously sometimes that bears fruit.

 

[Iamback]

Kikau has had a great season but he is starting to make more errors and miss more tackles. Had a similar late season (Finals) Fade in 2020.

This is why I am ardently against a winger on the bench. Need a forward who can take 10 mins a game off a tired Kikau and Martin.

In saying that at least 1 of Kikau's misses was a super cover attempt at a winger scoring in the corner. Most 2nd rowers wouldn't even be bothered to try or if they did, wouldn't get as close as he did.

I much prefer a team that has those type of 'misses' than a team that has less missed tackles on individual stat sheets - but gives away more points.

It goes to show with our defensive systems over the last 3 years. We give away tackle breaks, metres, line breaks etc but usually do enough so that cover can clean up. Over this period there have been plenty of games where we have done poorly on these type of metrics (40-50+ Missed Tackles) and Ivan just shrugs it off - because the scorelines say we average around 13 points a game conceded. End Results are what matters.

We were at our best with Kikau getting 60 mins
Martin starting out wide then either ending in the middle or on the bench
Having Kenny play middle to replace Capewell has ruined the balance

 

[Fangs]

Not even JJ Giltinan himself would have stopped some of those tries.

Souths biggest asset is their edge attack. And we happened to be weakened on both sides of the field. Souths should be really disappointed that they still lost that game despite scoring 22 points.

 

[chrisD]

I didn't mind starting Kenny, fresher Api at the end of the game is a decent enough pay off.