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Round 6 v Souths

maple_69

Bench
Messages
4,584
Kite was average. Who disagreed with you on Mansour's defence? His contact is good but his decisions are terrible. Idros has had one Tony Williams game and the rest have been good. Share has been bog average. Soward's kicking was absolutely fantastic.

I'd give DWZ and Mansour a couple more weeks on the wings then look at Eto and KeV again. DWZ to go back regardless in a few weeks. He clearly belongs at this level but half a season back in reggies will be good for him.

We seriously put in tonight so I can't be too negative. We were absolutely belting them in defence with 10 to go. Clueless in attack though. I think Peachey for Kingston and Robinson for Brown would help. Many was great.
 

billypilgrimnz

First Grade
Messages
5,167
Latimore, Plum > Grant, McKendry, Kite in current form

Soward is paralyzed under pressure and that's admittedly a big problem (but not our only one). We signed a pretty one dimensional front row because they had a pretty simple job: make room for Soward. They haven't been performing. Mansour and Idris make more meters than our props :crazy:

Get that foundation right and we can build from there.

Taylor is capable of being pretty handy but needs to step up, Brown is alright on his feet when he's not giving away penalties, and Docker has been nothing but dependable. Kingston needs to go though. Manu and Idris need to do a lot more too.

When we're not making meters, Mansour is important; when we are, perhaps we look at some more spark out wide? He's such a talented player, but I feel like, in an ideal team, your meters aren't coming from your wingers - your points are.

Alternatively, maybe down the track Idris plays 2nd row (he's playing like a forward anyway) and we chuck some speed in the centre. Something to keep the opposition in two minds.

We're doing well at everything except for scoring points. :sarcasm:

But that the problem - one one hand, you identify that obviously scoring points is a problem, on the other you are all keen and eager to keep all three of Brown, Docker and Taylor. I don't get that.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Who disagreed with you on Mansour's defence?

not sure. Read the last 3 pages of the Canberra thread. I said the only glaring weakness in defence is Mansour & teams would target him.

No where near Merritt and a fairly easy catch. Some other winger there they handle both of those.
 

greynurse

Juniors
Messages
117
Sat in a pub in Bali watching a pixilated game streamed through the net to watch that crap. Even though what I could make out the 3 tries from souths were dubious. 1 st try obstruction running behind your man 2nd inglis dropped the ball , how was docker able to strip the ball with his head, and mansour dropped the ball and hit a souths player automatic knock on against us. Saying that they played as a unit we didn't . In the first 2 games the spark came from peach and segz . No peach. Time to swallow your pride cleary and pick a team that has a chance to win.
 

chrisD

Coach
Messages
14,725
McKendry was ok, Grant needs to get to ground before the third defender in, Kite I hope was back too soon and forced on cos of an injury to Plum because he was really poor. Latimore just nothing toiling. Taylor is pretty useless wide, really should be lock or nothing.

Mansour's worst game for us, DWZ continues to drop where he shouldn't, halves have nothing and have to resort to kicks, and even those were pretty shit, Moylan when slotting into the backline isn't coming up with much offers nothing else.

It was a lot of ball in good position to come up with nothing. All that time on their line and Manu was off the field and we only really had Whare or Idris that were a chance of doing anything. The worst of the conditions was when we were attacking, rain even waited until we were attacking in the second half to come back, so I hold some hope.

Shouldn't be a surprise I guess, we were bad against the Eels and bad and made to look ok against a terrible Raiders. Some dry weather and hopefully we don't look embarrassing next week.
 

billypilgrimnz

First Grade
Messages
5,167
We have to start Segeyaro soon. Surely. And how has Robinson been going in the NSW Cup? I would like to see him tried again soon if his form warrants. I would have Peachey back in a haeartbeat as well. K.Naiqama must be pissed off to be dropped for no obvious reason and then seeing our wingers make so many mistakes.
 

Puntastic

Juniors
Messages
993
But that the problem - one one hand, you identify that obviously scoring points is a problem, on the other you are all keen and eager to keep all three of Brown, Docker and Taylor. I don't get that.

In fairness to Brown, he's capable of making line breaks and line break assists when he's on song (he's not at the moment and I'm not opposed to hooking him if need be).

Taylor looks like he's bulked up and a little slower than his time at the warriors, but he is quite dynamic in attack. He'd stay in my side.

Docker is probably the least likely to create points of the three but he's been invaluable in defence.

I guess I feel like these aren't the guys to go after. We need offloads too, but I'm not going to suggest throwing Cartwright to the wolves just yet.

There isn't one be-all-and-end-all solution either.

Whare, Moylan, Soward, Segeyaro, Peachy, and even Taylor (despite his time at hooker in NZ) are all pretty handy. Brown's pretty good putting guys into holes when he's moving. Manu and Idris are both capable of being pretty troubling close to the line, but you don't win football games based on potential and they need to step up and start asking questions.

But we lack speed (as every man and his dog have pointed out, we're slow as f**k) out wide, and there's nobody to get the ball to, to get us over the line. Having a high kicking game isn't overly helpful when your jumpers are a relatively-easily-rattled DWZ, Idris and Mansour either.

Some of our problems are still teething issues with a squad that hasn't really had much time together to gel too. I've no doubt short passes putting rampaging forwards into holes will be second nature soon enough, and our passing game will improve to the point that even Nathan Merritt could score playing on the wing.
 
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billypilgrimnz

First Grade
Messages
5,167
Taylor is not, and has never been, dynamic in attack.

I agree that obviously we have room for improvement with these players, but I don't believe we have the right combinations out there yet either.
 

Kilkenny

Coach
Messages
13,811
The first point to make about tonight is we had enough great field position in the first half to lead by 12. We didn't score and didn't look like scoring so that was a bummer.

2 all at half time just need to come out and score the first try and things could have been different. Sadly they scored early and from that point they owned us. We still had plenty of attacking opportunities in the last 20 minutes but never looked likely at any stage.

The better side won on the night and we can have no complaints.

What tonight probably highlights is we need more spark and creativity. Changes do need to be made and we need Ivan the Brave not Ivan the conservative for our next game against the Titans.
 

Puntastic

Juniors
Messages
993
He's played a fairly conventional role here so far, but he's got a good passing game - and brain - and he hits holes well (and powerfully). He looks bigger (and slower) in 2014, so that mightn't be what Cleary wants him to do, but he's perfect for lock.

Admittedly, like a few players, this boils down to potential vs performance, and he hasn't lived up to his potential yet. But even still, he's not as one dimensional as you think, and I certainly don't think he warrants nearly as much criticism as others do.

Who else is in good enough form to be knocking on the door? And is disrupting the team worth it?
 

Kilkenny

Coach
Messages
13,811
On a night like tonight our offensive was crying out for a line breaker and that could have been Tyronne Peachy. Docker, Taylor and Brown and all similar weights to the likes of Tyronne but none of the abovementioned three have the line breaking ability he possesses and that is largely where we fell down. No one on field to spark something out of nothing which surely you need on a night like tonight in poor wet conditions. We need to reconsider our whole attacking offensive structure.
 

age.s

First Grade
Messages
7,806
I thought Soward had a pretty good game in the conditions. We were clearly under instructions to keep it simple and kick well. Soward did his part. Got us a ton of repeat sets which should have generated the pressure needed for points.

We just had so little impact in the middle. Manu was the only one in the pack who ever came close to breaking a tackle. Never felt like we ever had Souffs on the back foot, even when we were on their line it felt like we'd have to throw it around to have a chance of getting through.

Still think we were a little bit too conservative. Having a few passes sticking through the hands was the only way we were going to score points, so why not give it a go?
 

billypilgrimnz

First Grade
Messages
5,167
On a night like tonight our offensive was crying out for a line breaker and that could have been Tyronne Peachy. Docker, Taylor and Brown and all similar weights to the likes of Tyronne but none of the abovementioned three have the line breaking ability he possesses and that is largely where we fell down. No one on field to spark something out of nothing which surely you need on a night like tonight in poor wet conditions. We need to reconsider our whole attacking offensive structure.

I agree, and it's the point I made from game 1. Tonight, we had absolutely no threat on the edge. In fact, for the whole game, I remember one clear situation where we made some meters by finding actual space, late in the first half when Segeyaro (I think) got it to Brown on the front foot. But that was almost literally it. The rest of the game in the attacking third was shifting it sideways hoping we'd magically find an overlap without anyone really drawing anyone (and to be fair almost did once or twice, notably when DWZ dropped it), or dumping a harmless inside ball to a crabbing forward, or giving it to a forward to try run straight, but not always hard.
 

billypilgrimnz

First Grade
Messages
5,167
I thought Soward had a pretty good game in the conditions. We were clearly under instructions to keep it simple and kick well. Soward did his part. Got us a ton of repeat sets which should have generated the pressure needed for points.

We just had so little impact in the middle. Manu was the only one in the pack who ever came close to breaking a tackle. Never felt like we ever had Souffs on the back foot, even when we were on their line it felt like we'd have to throw it around to have a chance of getting through.

Still think we were a little bit too conservative. Having a few passes sticking through the hands was the only way we were going to score points, so why not give it a go?

Yes, Soward was fine. He did the job we got him to do, and he would be very effective in a side where he doesn't also have to be the principle playmaker.

Someone needs to remind me what we got Wallace for again........
 

murraymob

Coach
Messages
10,338
its hard to blame players if our attack consists of 1 pass run 1 pass run.Even idris has been drawn into this.Why are we not moving the ball wide hitting idris then moving it back across hitting whare.There can be no excuses they where terrible
 

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