Round 8 vs Souths

[Chins get the wins]

Watch every hit up he takes and watch how often he pulls through the line up against forwards. He's strong as for his size. Nath singled out Tago as the guy who terrorises him in wrestling sessions which given Nath is a pretty big dude for a half who is himself very strong for his size is pretty impressive.

But I do think asking for Tago to move right now is a bit of an overreaction and short sighted. Martin and Hosking will be our backrowers once fully fit. Where does his minutes come from? What's the point of moving him for 4 or so rounds then moving him back once Martin is back? It would feel like a panic move no different from what the Tigers are doing?

If Martin Comes back and the hammy goes again then we should pull the trigger on Tago to the backrow this year

 

[betcats]

You are underestimating what he has done.

He ave 69 run metres a game.
Cleary 45

He is 3rd for the side in Tackle busts. Only 2 behind To'o

Missed less tackles than Cleary

both have 9 errors

He has a line break. Cleary has none.

So he is down on form but has been far from horrible

I dont really like the fox sports stats but I know that is what you are using so I will use them also. Cleary has missed 2 more tackles according to fox but he also has made 15 more tackles so they are missing tackles at the same rate, and those numbers dont show up the 3 try saving tackles cleary made just last night. The big ones you left out it is according to FOX Nathan has 9 try assists(only behind reece walsh, though a couple others on 9 yet to play) and Luai has 2. Oh and Jaromes 6 penalties to Nathans 1.

Forgetting the stats, just look at the last two weeks. Neither played particularly well in attack yet Nathan still was involved in almost if not all of our tries whereas Luai was involved in none of them from memory. There has been a huge difference in their form, its ridiculous to suggest Nathan has just been a little better imo. Luai has been a net negative more then he has been a positive. Sure he gets some leeway for no Kikau but Nathan has a new back rower next to him and he is still creating most of our points whereas Jarome is struggling to create any outside of 1 game against the raiders.

 

[Kilkenny]

If Martin Comes back and the hammy goes again then we should pull the trigger on Tago to the backrow this year

Moving Tago in my opinion does not solve the problem, it merely creates another problem elsewhere.

I didn’t see the NSW Cup last night, didn’t go the game, but I watched the previous four weeks and they have been disappointing. We were beaten by a side down towards the bottom. On paper, given our hopes for some of the supposed young guns it should have been a no brainer.

If Turuva is out, I hope he isn’t, but if he is it has to be a like for like and Tom Jenkins should take his place. Very different player to Turuva, To’o and or May . I’m not totally convinced by Tom Jenkins but i guess given his try scoring record he at the very least is the next man up. He is very proficient at finishing at the very least, but isn’t going to deliver big running metres or pcm bringing the ball back from deep.

 

[Kilkenny]

I haven’t watched a replay, highlights, press conferences kind off too shattered after losing a game we really should have won.

There we’re some questionable decisions which went against us, the Tago one the most obvious, the touch by Walker which could have been seen as a knock on?

The Tago one in particular was an interesting one, given try awarded, benefit to the attacking side and all. i thought it was a try but obviously once they went upstairs there was only one decision forthcoming.

 

[BossleyPanther]

Moving Tago in my opinion does not solve the problem, it merely creates another problem elsewhere.

I didn’t see the NSW Cup last night, didn’t go the game, but I watched the previous four weeks and they have been disappointing. We were beaten by a side down towards the bottom. On paper, given our hopes for some of the supposed young guns it should have been a no brainer.

If Turuva is out, I hope he isn’t, but if he is it has to be a like for like and Tom Jenkins should take his place. Very different player to Turuva, To’o and or May . I’m not totally convinced by Tom Jenkins but i guess given his try scoring record he at the very least is the next man up. He is very proficient at finishing at the very least, but isn’t going to deliver big running metres or pcm bringing the ball back from deep.

He will score 3 against the tigers if given the chance

 

[WestyLife]

I haven’t watched a replay, highlights, press conferences kind off too shattered after losing a game we really should have won.

There we’re some questionable decisions which went against us, the Tago one the most obvious, the touch by Walker which could have been seen as a knock on?

The Tago one in particular was an interesting one, given try awarded, benefit to the attacking side and all. i thought it was a try but obviously once they went upstairs there was only one decision forthcoming.

The tago decision was not a grey area at all. Its not try every time. You can't use the ground to help you gain possession of the ball.

 

[Chins get the wins]

The tago decision was not a grey area at all. Its not try every time. You can't use the ground to help you gain possession of the ball.

It's was a penalty to us though

 

[WestyLife]

It's was a penalty to us though

They completely ignored the player taken out professional foul.

 

[Kilkenny]

The tago decision was not a grey area at all. Its not try every time. You can't use the ground to help you gain possession of the ball.

Did he touch the ball before it came into contact with ground that obviously would constitute a knock on.

If the ball was on the ground at the time he hand came into contact with the ball was there separation constituting a knock on.

You can use the ground to take possession of the ball, dummy halves do it all the time. Bad play the balls, stop the ball with their hand, pick it up off they go. Surely there still has to be separation and the promotion of the ball towards the opponents goal line.

It’s another one of these decisions where we slow it down to the milli second and find a reason to disallow a try. Fans at the game can no longer spontaneously celebrate the awarding of a try because our bunker is going to find a slow mo, angle to find a reason not to award it. The bunker was introduced to reduce the howlers, the obvious errors but it is far removed from that now and it is not a good thing for the game.

 

[Black Diamond]

Did you all see how Souths celebrated after the game? Jumping all over each other and carrying on.... so arrogant don't you think?

 

[Chins get the wins]

Did you all see how Souths celebrated after the game? Jumping all over each other and carrying on.... so arrogant don't you think?

Nah it was their grandfinal

 

[Kilkenny]

It's was a penalty to us though

Did Tago knock it on thou, just wondering I’m not bothered to watch it again far too painful. It just appeared at normal speed ball was on the ground, with no touch prior he controlled it , picked it up and scored. I just assumed the bunker ruled he touched it before it hit the ground.

 

[Kilkenny]

The tago decision was not a grey area at all. Its not try every time. You can't use the ground to help you gain possession of the ball.

If the ball is on the ground, inches away from the try line, and an attacking player puts his hand on top of the ball, effectively rolls it onto the try line, without ever his hand separating from the ball as long as a defender doesn’t effect a tackle just by placing his hand on the attacking player should a try be awarded.

 

[Girds89]

I don't buy into the slow service out of 9.

Kenny when he picks it up and tries to do something with it off the deck is just as quick and accurate as api.

It's when he takes a few steps and looks to do something that the service is much slower.

But he very rarely does that..

And that's were the issue is.

It's got nothing to do with slow service put of the 9.

It's do to with the fact that teams know he isn't going to run it and isn't a threat against markers and back behind them.

Straight off the bat this means your blokes either side of the marker back in the line can push a bit wider and not stay so tight because the ruck and marker threat just isn't there.

When Kenny passes off the deck his service is very good.. it's just he doesn't have the creativity or speed to threaten running it out of dummy half.

Straight away when Luke comes on the difference is obvious in our attack cause he draws in the defensive line and it all gets tighter.

It's a hard juggling act for Ivan because Kenny is vital to our defence.

I think Luke needs to get more game time.

As does Spencer

And for mine luai just needs to go back to what he is great at and that is getting set restarts... building pressure.. playing more direct and getting quick play the balls.

He's just seems to go into his shell over when Nathan's doing his thing.

He's the kinda of person who goes to another level when it's on him. We've seen it at the world cup.

Ivan needs to give him a rocket and give him the freedom to call the shots at times and push yeo or Nathan out of the way and demand the ball. Similar to Munster. When he wants it he gets it.

There's a very good player in luai. He has all the skills.

In terms of the rest of the team... moving tago isn't the option. He's to small and it just weakens centre...

Jenkins I just don't see it. McLean and daeon are the future wingers/centres etc. I think tiny will come back as a centre.. we've missed tinys brilliant finishing this year. Man he could find the try line.

Nathan's kicking again has been pretty hot miss to start the year.. the rest of his game has been very good but I get so sick of the midfield bombs that the wingers catch on the 20m line...

Every 4 or 5 weeks he'll have this freak kicking game where he kicks early and long and mixes up his kicks and lands them on the 5 or 10 instead of the 20m line... he gets his floaters right etc...

Than he'll be bog average kicking again by his standards for the next 3 weeks.

He needs to be better. As I said last night and the last few years... Adam Reynolds is the best in game kicker in the comp.. can win you a game solely off his game management kicking. Nathan needs to be way more consistent. Luai can help him with that by taking some kicks more often.

The 2nd row is an issue but we all knew that..

And I just don't think we've got the bench make up right.

Some tinkering is needed.

I don't think we need mass changes but Ivan can expect to play panthers ball this year and win the comp.

We need to mix it up big time.

The big wins against the average teams only mask the issues

 

[Kilkenny]

Did you all see how Souths celebrated after the game? Jumping all over each other and carrying on.... so arrogant don't you think?

They deserved it mate. Good luck to them, they have endured our post game celebrations for 11 of the last 12 or 13 whatever it is. No arrogance just the spoils of victory.

 

[Kilkenny]

I don't buy into the slow service out of 9.

Kenny when he picks it up and tries to do something with it off the deck is just as quick and accurate as api.

It's when he takes a few steps and looks to do something that the service is much slower.

But he very rarely does that..

And that's were the issue is.

It's got nothing to do with slow service put of the 9.

It's do to with the fact that teams know he isn't going to run it and isn't a threat against markers and back behind them.

Straight off the bat this means your blokes either side of the marker back in the line can push a bit wider and not stay so tight because the ruck and marker threat just isn't there.

When Kenny passes off the deck his service is very good.. it's just he doesn't have the creativity or speed to threaten running it out of dummy half.

Straight away when Luke comes on the difference is obvious in our attack cause he draws in the defensive line and it all gets tighter.

It's a hard juggling act for Ivan because Kenny is vital to our defence.

I think Luke needs to get more game time.

As does Spencer

And for mine luai just needs to go back to what he is great at and that is getting set restarts... building pressure.. playing more direct and getting quick play the balls.

He's just seems to go into his shell over when Nathan's doing his thing.

He's the kinda of person who goes to another level when it's on him. We've seen it at the world cup.

Ivan needs to give him a rocket and give him the freedom to call the shots at times and push yeo or Nathan out of the way and demand the ball. Similar to Munster. When he wants it he gets it.

There's a very good player in luai. He has all the skills.

In terms of the rest of the team... moving tago isn't the option. He's to small and it just weakens centre...

Jenkins I just don't see it. McLean and daeon are the future wingers/centres etc. I think tiny will come back as a centre.. we've missed tinys brilliant finishing this year. Man he could find the try line.

Nathan's kicking again has been pretty hot miss to start the year.. the rest of his game has been very good but I get so sick of the midfield bombs that the wingers catch on the 20m line...

Every 4 or 5 weeks he'll have this freak kicking game where he kicks early and long and mixes up his kicks and lands them on the 5 or 10 instead of the 20m line... he gets his floaters right etc...

Than he'll be bog average kicking again by his standards for the next 3 weeks.

He needs to be better. As I said last night and the last few years... Adam Reynolds is the best in game kicker in the comp.. can win you a game solely off his game management kicking. Nathan needs to be way more consistent. Luai can help him with that by taking some kicks more often.

The 2nd row is an issue but we all knew that..

And I just don't think we've got the bench make up right.

Some tinkering is needed.

I don't think we need mass changes but Ivan can expect to play panthers ball this year and win the comp.

We need to mix it up big time.

The big wins against the average teams only mask the issues

We’re punishing ourselves on here with negative reactions, over reactions when the reality is our woes are salary cap related.

You simply can’t perform at the same level when you lose the calibre of player that we have. It’s going to get more painful in 2024 because there is no replacement for Lenui Or Crichton. We had no replacement for Kikau and we have come back to the field. We have to suck it up.

 

[Chins get the wins]

I don't buy into the slow service out of 9.

Kenny when he picks it up and tries to do something with it off the deck is just as quick and accurate as api.

It's when he takes a few steps and looks to do something that the service is much slower.

But he very rarely does that..

And that's were the issue is.

It's got nothing to do with slow service put of the 9.

It's do to with the fact that teams know he isn't going to run it and isn't a threat against markers and back behind them.

Straight off the bat this means your blokes either side of the marker back in the line can push a bit wider and not stay so tight because the ruck and marker threat just isn't there.

When Kenny passes off the deck his service is very good.. it's just he doesn't have the creativity or speed to threaten running it out of dummy half.

Straight away when Luke comes on the difference is obvious in our attack cause he draws in the defensive line and it all gets tighter.

It's a hard juggling act for Ivan because Kenny is vital to our defence.

I think Luke needs to get more game time.

As does Spencer

And for mine luai just needs to go back to what he is great at and that is getting set restarts... building pressure.. playing more direct and getting quick play the balls.

He's just seems to go into his shell over when Nathan's doing his thing.

He's the kinda of person who goes to another level when it's on him. We've seen it at the world cup.

Ivan needs to give him a rocket and give him the freedom to call the shots at times and push yeo or Nathan out of the way and demand the ball. Similar to Munster. When he wants it he gets it.

There's a very good player in luai. He has all the skills.

In terms of the rest of the team... moving tago isn't the option. He's to small and it just weakens centre...

Jenkins I just don't see it. McLean and daeon are the future wingers/centres etc. I think tiny will come back as a centre.. we've missed tinys brilliant finishing this year. Man he could find the try line.

Nathan's kicking again has been pretty hot miss to start the year.. the rest of his game has been very good but I get so sick of the midfield bombs that the wingers catch on the 20m line...

Every 4 or 5 weeks he'll have this freak kicking game where he kicks early and long and mixes up his kicks and lands them on the 5 or 10 instead of the 20m line... he gets his floaters right etc...

Than he'll be bog average kicking again by his standards for the next 3 weeks.

He needs to be better. As I said last night and the last few years... Adam Reynolds is the best in game kicker in the comp.. can win you a game solely off his game management kicking. Nathan needs to be way more consistent. Luai can help him with that by taking some kicks more often.

The 2nd row is an issue but we all knew that..

And I just don't think we've got the bench make up right.

Some tinkering is needed.

I don't think we need mass changes but Ivan can expect to play panthers ball this year and win the comp.

We need to mix it up big time.

The big wins against the average teams only mask the issues

You've written a lot here but I'll just tackle Nathan's kicks. The whole gameplan to beat Souths to just bomb high and straight to them, they then beat themselves. Yeo explained it in the pre game interview.

 

[GongPanther]

I have a bit of a different take on the game than most.

I thought we were pretty good, obviously not a 100%, but did all the hard work and threw the game away in last five minutes.

Both the Bunnies tries were preventable but they had the good fortune on this occasion and given our recent run against them good luck to them.

It was a cracking game I thought and while very disappointing to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory South’s were due and some big calls went against us.

The only changes I would be making are those forced by injury.

Yep. Every time we have a loss the sky seems to start falling.
BTW, can anyone find out the stat for the longest number of games that a team lost by no more than two points from the begining of the season?

 

[Girds89]

You've written a lot here but I'll just tackle Nathan's kicks. The whole gameplan to beat Souths to just bomb high and straight to them, they then beat themselves. Yeo explained it in the pre game interview.

Nathan kicking game needs to be way more consistent than what it is.

The whole just bomb to them and they'll beat themselves is all well and good as a plan but you need to be able to adapt mid game and make changes on the run depending on game situation

 

[GongPanther]

Did you all see how Souths celebrated after the game? Jumping all over each other and carrying on.... so arrogant don't you think?

Good luck to them. They haven't beat us at their home ground for 6 years.