Rumoured and Confirmed Signings and Crap IX

[Suitman]

Folau should be here. The salary cap increase wa handled very poorly by the NRL. It should have been decided 12 months ago.

That wasn't possible due to the TV rights not having been negotiated then. But you're right. A decision should have been made sooner.

Suity

 

[Suitman]

And I wouldn't be surprised if the Chooks knew about that before most other clubs either.

And neither would many other NRL fans.
The AFL may have its tanking, but we are just as secretive and inept.

Suity

 

[Maroubra Eel]

That wasn't possible due to the TV rights not having been negotiated then. But you're right. A decision should have been made sooner.

Suity

Yes you are right.

I think I'm just frustrated at our recruitment when you compare it to other clubs like the Roosters.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

LOL.

I'm on about the fact that Folau should be in OUR game, and not someone else's. By golly by gosh, I think I could live with the fact that we decided to rid ourselves of Vai Toutai, if we signed Isreal instead.

I think they would be on substantially different contract amounts. I also think Folau would only have really benefitted us this year. From 2014, we would have too much cash tied up in the backline (with Hopoate arriving).

That said, I'm sure mercenary Folau would have been happy to sign a one year deal (because he signed one with the Waratahs). If we'd known what the new salary cap would be then we could have.

But signing a bloke for a year isn't the way to build a club or its culture. And why would we want both Folau and Hopoate here on big money multi-year deals?

Are YOU seriously telling me that we are pushing the 5.8 million cap this season?

No, but we would be very close to what the salary cap was before the recent increase.

The Roosters just let a few players go. Why couldn't we have at the time?

Suity

Well we have let a few players go. Admittedly Barba, Brien, Savage and Seage would have been on peanuts, and neither Horo nor Tonga would have been on big money, but we have plenty of space for this year. I suspect it will be used for contract extensions (especially Hayne) and fitting a couple of NYC players into the first grade cap when they make their debuts.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Yes you are right.

I think I'm just frustrated at our recruitment when you compare it to other clubs like the Roosters.

The Roosters have always been a transit lounge that signs big names. The wooden spoon they picked up in '09 didn't seem to hurt them.

 

[Suitman]

FMD Pou.

1. I know Toutai's salary would be substantially different to Folau's, but that wasn't the point. You said the roster was filled, and I said we just reduce the roster. Like the Roosters have done.

2. You still haven't answered the question, (nor has anyone else) why we weren't afforded the luxury of knowing what this season's salary cap would be. We could have easily fit Folau under the cap, and probably for ongoing season's as well, including Hopoate and Hayne. (who said we'd only sign him for a season like the Waratahs? If I remeber correctly, we offered him 4). Whether we needed him or not is another argument, but that point is mute. We were told we couldn't fit him under the cap, and with a $5.8 million cap, I call bullshit.

3. If we have plenty of space this year, why did Schubert tell us we didn't?

4. Just for once Pou, answer the f**king questions.

Suity

 

[Maroubra Eel]

The Roosters recruitment is bloody sensational. A half, a forward, a back, all guns.

 

[Suitman]

The Roosters recruitment is bloody sensational. A half, a forward, a back, all guns.

Almost a spine - a sort of dislocated one.

Suity

 

[El Diablo]

i don't think he was ever coming here

signed with the Dogs yet it was never announced and still hasn't been

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

I guess our predicament this year might reflect what the Roosters' bloke is saying regarding some clubs having a large amount of high-paid players with conditions in their contract that automatically increase their salary if the cap changes. If, for example, Hayne, Sandow, Mannah etc are on such deals it wouldn't be hard for a large proportion of the salary cap increase to be gone before we got it. We may have signed such deals in the past thinking (foolishly) that future salary cap increases would be fairly modest.

But who knows......

 

[Maroubra Eel]

Good point Bazza.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

FMD Pou.

f**k your face merkin.

1. I know Toutai's salary would be substantially different to Folau's, but that wasn't the point. You said the roster was filled, and I said we just reduce the roster. Like the Roosters have done.

We wouldn't need to reduce the size of the squad just to sign another player - there is a cap on total salary, not a cap on squad size.

That said, we have reduced the size of the squad. I gave you the examples of Barba, Brien, Horo, Savage, Seage and Esi Tonga, who were all contracted here this year. All are now gone.

My point was though, that we have 33 players contracted, and another four or five on NYC contracts who trained with the fulltime squad this off-season. You could argue that we need better players but we sure don't need any more players.

2. You still haven't answered the question, (nor has anyone else) why we weren't afforded the luxury of knowing what this season's salary cap would be.

Dunno.

We could have easily fit Folau under the cap, and probably for ongoing season's as well, including Hopoate and Hayne. (who said we'd only sign him for a season like the Waratahs? If I remeber correctly, we offered him 4).

My point was a player on that much money needs to be in the spine to provide value. Since Folau and Hopoate can't play in the halves (or hooker), then only one could fit in the spine (at fullback). This is assuming Hayne is able to make the transition to the halves, because if not, we already have one player - Hopoate - getting paid far more than an outside back is worth. With Folau on the books we potentially have the two highest paid centres in the game. That's awesome if you still live in the 80s and think centres win games, but there's a reason Souths moved Inglis to fullback, and why Penrith were happy to see the back of Jennings's massive contract.

Whether we needed him or not is another argument, but that point is mute. We were told we couldn't fit him under the cap, and with a $5.8 million cap, I call bullshit.

I don't think we were lied to or deliberately dudded. I just think the NRL were too slow deciding the new cap, and in light of that, the timing of our negotiations with Folau was just extremely bad luck.

3. If we have plenty of space this year, why did Schubert tell us we didn't?

I don't believe the new cap was decided at the time. I certainly don't believe in any conspiracy against us.

4. Just for once Pou, answer the f**king questions.

What was the question?

 

[strider]

i think what bart said is right .... the cap was considered to be all but set at about $5m, then after weeks of schubert f**king around it all happened at the same time - schubert gave an inch, an increase in the cap emerged, folau did the dirty signed with the dogs and a 1 year union deal (oh yeah thats not all official)

 

[bartman]

Who was it agreed by? You? No one knew what the amount would be. Everyone knew it was going to increase regardless.

The NRL advised clubs to work on the basis of $5mil, while it was being further negotiated (with the RLPA I think?). So it was agreed by them, at that point, factoring in some increase (but not the eventual full increase).

If anyone knew it was going to be 5.8 million, it SHOULD have been Schubert at that stage, considering he was dealing with a unique circumstance regarding a player that would have put bums on seats and increased revenue throughout the game. The whole situation was a f**king shambles, and those responsible should have been held accountable, including Schubert himself.

I reckon Schubert is pretty low in the pecking order, and would have been just doing what he was told based on the rules at the time. That's not disgareeing that the management of the rights deal and cap increase and the timing of it all wasn't a shambles - it was.

Good to know that you know what goes on inside Folau's head. Keep us up to date please.

Mate, it's an opinion. Just like yours on Schubert and the NRL announcing the cap figure. Opinions are what this place is for, no need to get upset with ones you don't like.

Read the SMH lately? The Waratahs are laughing, after he has been the standout in their first three trials. I'd forgotten how good he could be. At the time, I thought the same as you. I now reckon we've lost a money spinner. And yes, I blame the salary cap auditors and the NRL in general.
Imagine the positive coverage and the anticipation leading into this season if he was on our roster, as he should be? Monumental f**k up.

Sure, to all points. But I still reckon he's a mercenary grub *shrugs*

 

[bartman]

4. Just for once Pou, answer the f**king questions.

Suity

:shock:

Trouble in paradise... ;-)

As for the Roosters comparisons Suity, I found this article today (with quotes from Roosters) quite illuminating. I'd say their lack of back-ended contracts vs our well-rumoured situation is a key difference, and what caused Schubert the most difficulty in the calculations? But easier to point the finger elsewhere, than at the consequences of our own (admittedly rotating) chiefs of football operations.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...-reap-recruitment-rewards-20130214-2efv9.html

Cap guns: Roosters reap recruitment rewards

February 15, 2013
Michael Chammas

SYDNEY ROOSTERS are now reaping the benefits of using only about 90 per cent of their salary cap last year.

Questions have been raised over the Roosters' ability to sign James Maloney, Sonny Bill Williams, Michael Jennings and now Luke O'Donnell, without going over the $5.8 million salary cap for this year.

But Roosters recruitment guru Peter O'Sullivan, who capped off a golden summer in the player market by extending Mitchell Pearce's contract for another four years, said the side's roster for this season was a result of good management.

''It's pretty simple - the salary cap went up and we had money to spend,'' O'Sullivan said.
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''The other thing is that we had a significant sum left over last year. We left some money up our sleeve and that obviously carries over and gives us extra spending this year.''

The Sydney Roosters were in a better position to capitalise on the $800,000 increase in this year's salary cap than most clubs because they don't have many players with clauses in their contracts.

''We only have a small number of players who are on contracts that have to go up a certain percentage if the salary cap goes up,'' O'Sullivan said. ''Other clubs have quite a large number of players. All their higher-paid players are on those percentage clauses, so any increase in the cap isn't able to be taken advantage of.

''We didn't have the clauses that other clubs have got that chews up the cap, so we were able to spend it on our footy team.''

Back-ended deals are a nightmare for clubs to control, which is why some teams were inactive in the player market for this season. O'Sullivan said it wasn't a problem the Roosters had to worry about.

''Some other clubs have players on heavy back-ended deals that start to kick in this year - we don't,'' he said.

''What compounds their problem is that not only are they back-ended, but they are back-ended with a percentage increase.''

The Roosters have also parted ways with Braith Anasta, Mose Masoe, BJ Leilua and Brad Takairangi since the end of last year.

While O'Donnell's signature has raised a few eyebrows, O'Sullivan said the deal with the former North Queenslander didn't break the bank.

''Luke O'Donnell's not coming back for a king's ransom,'' he said.

''He's coming back for a chance to play in the NRL. The money he was on over there in the English Super League with Huddersfield, especially the way the dollar was, he was on half of what he left Australia on.

''He and his family were just homesick and really just came back for an opportunity to play in the NRL again. That's where we came into it.''

Under the new collective bargaining agreement about to be passed, the salary cap will increase by $400,000 a season for the next four years, plus an additional $50,000 a year in marquee player allowances.

While O'Sullivan jokingly said he was now in a position to take a six-month holiday after retaining and signing the club's priorities, he has turned his attention to rookie winger Daniel Tupou, who is in the final stages of finalising a contract extension.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

But but but the NRL stopped clubs from back-ending or front-loading contracts after the Bulldogs saga!

No they didn't merkins. They just stopped clubs from renegotiating current contracts.

This is why it's good that we have room under the salary cap (as we must now due to the recent increase) - contract extensions can be front-loaded into the existing cap space.

 

[Joshuatheeel]

Talking about the roosters, yeah they have got a couple of high profile signings but have they really recruited that good?

Sbw - yep is a brilliant player but gee how often does he get injured , I reckon he will be lucky to play half the games this year. Also having him means you get the circus that follows which could be a distraction on such a young squad. Would love him in my side anyhow
Jennings - yeah Penrith may have wanted to move him on because on his large contract, but there is also a reason he played reserve grade last - his attitude is crap!! Also if I was a betting man I reckon Stuart was I interested him but after a chat with his old friend gus, he made a pass at any thought of signing him.
L donnell - injury prone, getting older and gives away a few to many penalties. As mention by stagger eels may have past on considering to sign him after investigating his injuries.
Maloney - don't get the love for him, is really he that good?

 

[Joshuatheeel]

But but but the NRL stopped clubs from back-ending or front-loading contracts after the Bulldogs saga!

No they didn't merkins. They just stopped clubs from renegotiating current contracts.

This is why it's good that we have room under the salary cap (as we must now due to the recent increase) - contract extensions can be front-loaded into the existing cap space.

Unless that current contract is changed with an extended contract

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Talking about the roosters, yeah they have got a couple of high profile signings but have they really recruited that good?

Sbw - yep is a brilliant player but gee how often does he get injured , I reckon he will be lucky to play half the games this year. Also having him means you get the circus that follows which could be a distraction on such a young squad.
Jennings - yeah Penrith may have wanted to move him on because on his large contract, but there is also a reason he played reserve grade last - his attitude is crap!! Also if I was a betting man I reckon Stuart was I interested him but after a chat with his old friend gus, he made a pass at any thought of signing him.
L donnell - injury prone, getting older and gives away a few to many penalties. As mention by stagger eels may have past on considering to sign him after investigating his injuries.
Maloney - don't get the love for him, is really he that good?

I reckon SBW is the best forward in the world, with daylight second. At least, he was when he left, and I doubt it will take him long to get back to his peak. As you say, injury-proneness is a concern.

Jennings is one of the best centres in the game, and with Penrith footing part of the bill he is another quality signing.

O'Donnell is surely too old and broken to be any better than average. I suspect the Chooks signed him for his experience and tough attitude.

Maloney is ordinary. He's Morts with a better kicking game.

 

[Maroubra Eel]

Any the questions Poupou you f**king merkin!