Rumoured and Confirmed signings - Part 4

[herbert henry1908]

So we’re left with the only plausible reason for going after Ivan Cleary being that to retain Nathan.

If that’s the case it’s truly stupid.

Coaching position is too important to boil it down to retaining a single player. Unless, perhaps, that player has the last name Thurston, Johns or Smith.

I’d also be concerned about having a team leader so fragile that they need their father to coach them. Not saying that’s the case, but it could be given how much we’ve done to make him happy.




Honestly think this could all end in tears & tear the playing group apart.

 

[Kilkenny]

Ivan’s regime is probably never going to equal the likes of Bellamy’s but is our head coach whether we like it or not. On that basis alone we should just put our full support behind him and hope he brings us success.

 

[TheFrog]

Cleary is marginally better, but when you’re making a significant appointment you want more than that.

Hook has a far better winning percentage, and a far better record of getting teams into the finals as well.

This is it for Ivan, I believe. If he cannot succeed with this roster, he's a bum coach.

 

[franklin2323]

So your solution in 2014 was what?

Move Jamal Idris or Dean Whare out of the centres to debut a 19yo kid?

Or to move Moylan to half where he would be learning, DWZ to fullback where he would also be learning (im ok with both of those) to then debut Waqa Blake on the wing which you bagged Ivan out for doing a year later? Those scenarios are both worsw than Will Smith at 6. Deadset.

Our 3/4 pairing was perfect in 2014 and would have been crazy to tinker with it. Fast forward to 2015 though:

Waqa Blake played 18/24 games. Debuting in Round 5 at centre after Jamal Idris was out for the season. He played 7 games at centre before shuffling between centre and wing depending on injuries. Finishing with 11 games at centre. 7 on the wing.

As a winger he was behind Josh Mansour, Dallin Watene-Zelezniak, George Jennings, Robert Jennings and David Simmons. He needed 4 injuries to winger and/or fullback before Ivan used him on the wing.

Will Smith first played Round 8... so Waqa Blake was well and truly ahead of him.

My preference would have been Moylan to 6 and DWZ to 1 in 2015. As Moylan was always a very limited fullback. But at the time DWZ had played about 10 games of NRL and it was understandable not to rush it and develop 2 players in new positions at once. Once DWZ got a crack and killed it though. Moylan was long gone and then so was DWZ.

We didnt get to see whether Ivan would have went with Moylan at 6 knowing he had a kick ass fullback in DWZ.

Ivan hesitated to make big changes unforced. Which was definitely a flaw. But if injury forced a decision and it worked he stuck with it.

I dont think Ivan is perfect. Nor do i agree with alot of his decisions. But he usually ended up making the right call and he got the best out of most players.

He has done great with young halves and experienced halves. He took Maloney to his first ever grand final.he would have done more work then anyone in developing Nathan.

Hes coming fresh off having Luke Brooks win the Dally M halfback of the year and getting Benji to put in a solid year. Not sure why more people arent excited by him working that magic with better halves.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/sydney-roosters-v-penrith-panthers-20140717-zu69l.html

PANTHERS: Dallin Watene-Zelezniak, Josh Mansour, Dean Whare, Jamal Idris, Kevin Naiqama, Matt Moylan, Jamie Soward, Sam McKendry, James Segeyaro, Brent Kite, Sika Manu, Elijah Taylor, Adam Docker. Interchange: Lewis Brown, Jeremy Latimore, Nigel Plum, Bryce Cartwright, Isaah Yeo (one to be omitted)

Bryce ended up playing 6. Brown in the centres that was the perfect change to start Blake. Moylan in 6. DWZ in 1. This was when I started the is Ivan a dud thread.

Momivoski or whatever his name is played the PF for Roosters this year on the back on a single FG game during the year. So no guarantee it would of failed

 

[herbert henry1908]

Hook has a far better winning percentage, and a far better record of getting teams into the finals as well.

This is it for Ivan, I believe. If he cannot succeed with this roster, he's a bum coach.

I’m taking all things into consideration when I say Cleary is marginally better. There’s more to it than win/loss.

Hook has had far better circumstances in his career.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I mean if Hook was genuinely rated he would’ve been talked about in the recent coaching circus.

He wasn’t linked to a single club.

 

[Flashstep]

I mean if Hook was genuinely rated he would’ve been talked about in the recent coaching circus.

He wasn’t linked to a single club.

Of course nobody rates Hook, Fox Sports may have tricked some fans into thinking he was a good coach hard done by but none of said fans would take him at their club.

 

[Kilkenny]

Hook has a far better winning percentage, and a far better record of getting teams into the finals as well.

This is it for Ivan, I believe. If he cannot succeed with this roster, he's a bum coach.

Hook is past history, his record is irrelevant. It is all about the future. Instead of writing IC off why not give him our support and if it doesn’t work out then you and others are probably entitled to to criticise the Board & Gould for the decision to bring him back. As I have said I thought the timing was right to bring in a fresh up and coming coach but it wasn’t to be. Let’s just get behind Ivan and look for way to 2019 and beyond.

 

[MrBlack]

Roumer has it that the Cleary announcement will happen this afternoon.

Source - 2gb

 

[Luke Bowden]

There's only 2 great coaches in the game and one of them wouldnt be any better then Cleary at this point in his career.

Deadset outside of Craig Bellamy and Wayne Bennett. Who could you call great?


Unless we're thinking beyond his coaching career with us.

If we wanted him to replace Gould in the near future and re-sign Nathan. There's really no better way to have approached it.

Jack Gibson. Definitely a great coach.

 

[PANTHERMIKE]

This is the first time Ivan has had a Top4 roster to work with.

I think we are on the brink of something big .. He has only even rebuilt and done it well to the point of taking our injury ravished team to 1 away.

We are primed to clean this whole thing up...

 

[Matthew Ellis]

Wonder if Tim Grant has a clause in his contract that allows him to find another club if Ivan Cleary is coach. Poor guy can’t catch a break with Cleary following him around to banish him to reserve grade

He would have signed knowing he's gonna be depth behind Mkendary and Leota.

 

[Fangs]

It's definately a big year for the club. Biggest in memory.

Unlike previous years I'm not getting excited. Jury is out on Ivan and his son Nathan. Not sure they are the combo to deliver a comp to Penrith.

 

[Matthew Ellis]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/sydney-roosters-v-penrith-panthers-20140717-zu69l.html

PANTHERS: Dallin Watene-Zelezniak, Josh Mansour, Dean Whare, Jamal Idris, Kevin Naiqama, Matt Moylan, Jamie Soward, Sam McKendry, James Segeyaro, Brent Kite, Sika Manu, Elijah Taylor, Adam Docker. Interchange: Lewis Brown, Jeremy Latimore, Nigel Plum, Bryce Cartwright, Isaah Yeo (one to be omitted)

Bryce ended up playing 6. Brown in the centres that was the perfect change to start Blake. Moylan in 6. DWZ in 1. This was when I started the is Ivan a dud thread.

Momivoski or whatever his name is played the PF for Roosters this year on the back on a single FG game during the year. So no guarantee it would of failed

Wasn't Bryce only playing there due to injuries?

 

[mxlegend99]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/sydney-roosters-v-penrith-panthers-20140717-zu69l.html

PANTHERS: Dallin Watene-Zelezniak, Josh Mansour, Dean Whare, Jamal Idris, Kevin Naiqama, Matt Moylan, Jamie Soward, Sam McKendry, James Segeyaro, Brent Kite, Sika Manu, Elijah Taylor, Adam Docker. Interchange: Lewis Brown, Jeremy Latimore, Nigel Plum, Bryce Cartwright, Isaah Yeo (one to be omitted)

Bryce ended up playing 6. Brown in the centres that was the perfect change to start Blake. Moylan in 6. DWZ in 1. This was when I started the is Ivan a dud thread.

Momivoski or whatever his name is played the PF for Roosters this year on the back on a single FG game during the year. So no guarantee it would of failed

But Brown didnt play in the centres. The changes posted pre-game werent how they lined up.

http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/seasons/nrl-2014/round-19/sydney-vs-penrith/summary.html

Idris and Whare were pur centres. DWZ and Kev on the wings. Moylan at fullback.

The only way Blake fits into the team is if he plays wing... which you would then bag Ivan out for doing. Although before he played wing in first grade we didnt know he would be bad it it.

Summary after the game on here:
https://forums.leagueunlimited.com/threads/r-19-v-feather-dusters.437496/page-11

2. Whare from what I saw didn't switch at all. He was named at wing but the team was essentially Moylan FB, DWZ/Naiqama Wing, Whare/Idris in the centres. Whare didn't play wing at all from what I saw so not really sure of that point.

Big Mick posted that. I'll take his word for it. As I barely recall the game.

Although apparently after it I was keen for Peachey at centre.

 

[mxlegend99]

Wasn't Bryce only playing there due to injuries?

Most of our 2015 decisions after Round 3 were nearly reactions to injury.

Not all were great. But it took a few injuries for players to play where they did on a few occassions.

 

[mxlegend99]

I’m taking all things into consideration when I say Cleary is marginally better. There’s more to it than win/loss.

Hook has had far better circumstances in his career.

100%

Top 4 should be a pass.
Top 8 is tolerable but disappointing.
Miss the 8 and he should be demoted to Flegg coach.

 

[MrBlack]

100%

Top 4 should be a pass.
Top 8 is tolerable but disappointing.
Miss the 8 and he should be demoted to Flegg coach.

We were only just 1 win away from minor premiers last season, with all the coaching turmoil and with Maloney playing busted etc etc. I personally think our biggest problem last year was our inability to recover from the rep season (and the coaching debacle).

With our current team, an experienced coach and the fact that nearly all our team is locked up for a few years there should be no distractions, nor any excuses. Say what you will about Gus, he has built a good young team, and locked them all up for the next 4ish years. The window is well and truly open for us.

Top 4 a minimum in 2019.
A Gf appearance a minimum in the next 2-3 years.

(Still would like us to sign an aggressive front rower)

 

[Luke Bowden]

It really doesn’t matter what’s happened in the past, I was pissed when Ivan was sacked and I’m glade he’s back.

I’ll judge him after he’s had a fair crack with a decent team.

Definitely not passing judgement until he’s had a chance.

 

[The Rosco]

I also conveniently left out every single other game that the coaches mentioned had, so lets not get too sensitive. Remember, we were 3 minutes from losing that as well, but a win is a win, so I didn't want to bring it up.

It's weird - Cleary is so well rated, but his actual record is a bit shit, and his selections can be a bit shit, and his attacking structure is very shit, and we've gone back for a second taste.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I think it is a bad bet.

The above is well said.
Add to that the fact that IC's reputation isn't so much as a world class coach . . . it's more about him displaying honour and morals, etc.
Gould/Penrith sacked him to tarnish those standards years ago . . . now, everyone in the NRL thinks that IC/Penrith are merkins for doing what they did, the way they did.
So Ivan's greatest attribute was battered 3 or whatever years ago, and now it has been permanently damaged. And he's tripping over his own 2 feet in the rush to get there.
So as you said . . . so many of his talents are shit. The one thing that held him in such high esteem were his standards. Now they are shit as well. let's see . . . shit times shit over 5 years equals ?
I get that he probs doesn't give a F what the NRL fans think of him . . . . but if you are a plod coach, and a merkin, you have less attributes that put you in demand.
Whatever I say will be treated with such intellectual replies as "suck shit". But you Billy are one of the few that can read the writing on the wall. Once WT fans get over the umbrage of that cheap, sell your soul merkin walking out on our club, we will wake up to the fact that Madge seems an upgrade.
And apparently many neutrals think so too. Not that that matters . . . .