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Rumoured/Confirmed Signings and General Drivel XV

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caylo

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Buher is a decent player but im not sure why we want him.He isn't a superstar so unless he came cheap id pass.
We have found two guys in Mau and Edwards.We have Kelepi coming thru and looks like Pauli Pauli will be in the backrow too.
If we signed Buhrer than I guess Uelsai and Santi wont be expected to play first grade in the next 2-3 season.

Mau,Edwards, Kelepi, Pauli, Loko, Santi and Ualsei plus Terepo, allgood and Lussick can play as middle forwards (locks) if required. That is a fair list but very inexperienced especially if Paulo and Smith aren't around (which they may be) so Buhrer could be an asset but I suspect we will have to pay overs unless Manly can't afford to fit him in at all.
If we are going to open the checkbook for a backrower they would have to be of at least a Wade Graham level player (I'm not sure who that would be tbh).

In saying that If Tonga and Hoppa have good seasons we wont need to much experience on the edges because these guys would command the defensive edge similar to how Lyon and Mati do allowing younger backrowers to settle in. I honestly think Semi and Ma'u have been both allowed to perform to their potential because of Tonga.

Mannah, Peats, Lussick, Ma'u, Edwards, Kelepi: Loko, Terepo, Mossip,Jnr Paulo. That to me would be a very good pack next year if comes back to full fitness and we can spend the money they would invest on Buhrer to pay Hayne to keep him here.
 

EelsFan05

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You can be so narrow minded sometimes Pou. Either that or you really think that people in managerial positions make the right decisions for all the right reasons all the time. If only this were true the tax payer would save so much money doing away with all these royal commissions and fraud investigations.
 

Poupou Escobar

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Biggest load of crap ever.

If a club were to sign Harrison for $290k, then it is an example of bad management. There would be no reason to pay that much money, except for being milked by the agent.

I know you think that nobody pays more or less than a player is worth, but you live in Disneyland if you think everyone gets exactly the right amount at the time of their signing. Good management is signing players for less than their value.
An example of such is the signing of Gower for us this year - a legitimate NRL bench prop for any club, and on a minute salary.

Bad management would have been to pay Gower $300k.

Although I shouldn't be so harsh - it's not the biggest load of crap ever - bad management can ALSO take place after a player is signed, they aren't developed correctly, or coached well.
So I amend my statement to 'smallest load of crap ever'. :?

You're pretending that clubs have all these other options though. From needing to spend X amount of the cap, to needing to bring in players with good attitudes from strong cultures, to trying to entice their potentially superstar younger brothers with them, sometimes you have to pay overs for players. We've paid massive overs for Lussick and Hopoate too. Just because they are quality first graders doesn't mean they aren't just as overpaid as the fringe first grader we signed from the same club. We are getting no value from either player. The value is coming from a couple of guys on second tier contracts, that have exceeded expectations. But relying on that happening every year is another massive risk that weak clubs might have to take. Signing a fringe NRL player for more than he's worth is one way of mitigating that risk. At least Harrison had proved that he could handle the NRL.
 

EelsFan05

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Harrison played a total of 19 first grade games for Manly before we offered him ridiculous money. Is 19 games now a sufficient sample size for you?

The fact that he only played a further seven games for us and was not picked up by another NRL club says more to me. By your logic we should be trying to get Horo back...
 

Someone

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He can also play anywhere in the 17, essentially, and he'd do a good job. His utility value would jack his price up.

personally i disagree on two counts here, firstly he cant play anywhere in 17, most likely only second row, prop if needed, lock, hooker and bench,and secondly a jack of all trades master of none should be paid moderately but i wouldnt offer him more than what he is just cause he can fill in here and there. Its not like he excels at hooker (practically doesnt ever play there), hes a strong ball runner but he really isnt worth breaking the bank.

In all serious re: Buhrer being a 'utility', how many positons has he actually played and what are the percentages of those positions over his first grade career? i swear labels like Versatile and skillful grow like wildfire on this forum because one person says it.
 

caylo

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Buhrer plays on the right and in the middle.



Horo is a left edge back rower, and has the easiest job at Manly. He is sandwiched between Foran and Matai, and has Taufua on his side too. He has almost zero responsibility, and gets more one-on-one opportunities than probably any second rower in the NRL. He probably makes less tackles than any other edge forward too, since teams don't target Foran.



Starting a game doesn't mean you're a better player, and coming off the bench doesn't mean you're not as good as a starter.

Buhrer has made 92 tackles this year, with two missed.

Despite all his extra minutes, Horo has made 91 tackles, missing 11.

Buhrer has made 35 runs for 270 metres. Horo has made 37 runs for 236 metres.

Is Horo really more important to Manly than Jamie Buhrer?

outside of Buhrer one game he started in the centres when he made 111meters and 42 tackles he has done nothing. So he made 41% of his meters and 45% of his tackle in one match, that is called a statistical anomaly and would be removed from any statistical analysis. You should know that pou

Irrespective of where Buhrer plays, Harrison was picked ahead of him on the right edge in 2012 when stewart was injured and considering Watmough played on the left edge as much as he played through the middle Buhrer could have always been picked in the middle ad Horo on the bench. Both Hasler and Toovey have continually picked him on the bench and play him generally around 30min which is similar to the minutes Kelepi and Pauli have been given to give them experience. So Buhrer is getting pitty minutes essentially and Horo is playing full 80min, i.e Horo>>Buhrer
 
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Poupou Escobar

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You can be so narrow minded sometimes Pou. Either that or you really think that people in managerial positions make the right decisions for all the right reasons all the time. If only this were true the tax payer would save so much money doing away with all these royal commissions and fraud investigations.

Don't confuse the public sector with private enterprise. Politicians answer to idiots like you and me. Sports administrators answer to... never mind. :eek:
 

Eelementary

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personally i disagree on two counts here, firstly he cant play anywhere in 17, most likely only second row, prop if needed, lock, hooker and bench,and secondly a jack of all trades master of none should be paid moderately but i wouldnt offer him more than what he is just cause he can fill in here and there. Its not like he excels at hooker (practically doesnt ever play there), hes a strong ball runner but he really isnt worth breaking the bank.

In all serious re: Buhrer being a 'utility', how many positons has he actually played and what are the percentages of those positions over his first grade career? i swear labels like Versatile and skillful grow like wildfire on this forum because one person says it.

He's already proven he can play anywhere in the backline - and kill it.

He's big, strong and fast enough to take hit-ups - in fact, he did so on several occasions on Saturday night.

And his passing game is brilliant - I'm sure he could tweak it to make it work at hooker if we really needed him to (which we don't).

I'm sorry, but Jarryd Hayne is good enough to play pretty much anywhere. He has size, speed, strength, skill...

And he's not a John Morris type of utility who is good but not great - he's been NSW's best from the wing; man of the match in the World Cup Final from centre; and a Dally M Medallist from fullback.

The dude should get paid pretty highly and rightly so.
 

Eelementary

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He's already proven he can play anywhere in the backline - and kill it.

He's big, strong and fast enough to take hit-ups - in fact, he did so on several occasions on Saturday night.

And his passing game is brilliant - I'm sure he could tweak it to make it work at hooker if we really needed him to (which we don't).

I'm sorry, but Jarryd Hayne is good enough to play pretty much anywhere. He has size, speed, strength, skill...

And he's not a John Morris type of utility who is good but not great - he's been NSW's best from the wing; man of the match in the World Cup Final from centre; and a Dally M Medallist from fullback.

The dude should get paid pretty highly and rightly so.

Jarryd Hayne is the Eels' greatest ever player IMO.
 

lingard

Coach
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11,439
Bad management is what happens after the player is signed. At the time he is signed the club only knows what they know, and every signing carries some risk. Depending on their circumstances every club has to accept a certain level of risk, and the weakest clubs have to accept more than others.

Of course every merkin is an expert in hindsight.


I'm not. I'm a poor judge, even in hindsight.
 

caylo

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He's already proven he can play anywhere in the backline - and kill it.

He's big, strong and fast enough to take hit-ups - in fact, he did so on several occasions on Saturday night.

And his passing game is brilliant - I'm sure he could tweak it to make it work at hooker if we really needed him to (which we don't).

I'm sorry, but Jarryd Hayne is good enough to play pretty much anywhere. He has size, speed, strength, skill...

And he's not a John Morris type of utility who is good but not great - he's been NSW's best from the wing; man of the match in the World Cup Final from centre; and a Dally M Medallist from fullback.

The dude should get paid pretty highly and rightly so.

Agree hayne is 100+kg and one of the quickest in the NRL. He excels anywhere in the backline and could quiet easily play as a prop or backrower (not that I can ever think of a reason why he would). He has the skill to play 6,7 or 9 but they would obviously take time to adapt to but he would do well. Considering all this he will never play outside of the 1 or 6 in any team in the NRL (for NSW and Australia maybe) and in the twilight of his career he may move to lock or backrow if he slows down.
 

Eelementary

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I don't think he will get that title unless he wins a premiership. Just a personal opinion.

That's cool.

But does that mean Andrew Ettingshausen, Steve Rogers, Nathan Hindmarsh, Johnathan Thurston and David Peachey, to name a few, don't deserve to be ranked in the list of their respective clubs' best players?
 

Eelementary

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Agree hayne is 100+kg and one of the quickest in the NRL. He excels anywhere in the backline and could quiet easily play as a prop or backrower (not that I can ever think of a reason why he would). He has the skill to play 6,7 or 9 but they would obviously take time to adapt to but he would do well. Considering all this he will never play outside of the 1 or 6 in any team in the NRL (for NSW and Australia maybe) and in the twilight of his career he may move to lock or backrow if he slows down.

That's it, mate.

I'm not saying he should play prop or second row, but given his ability and size, I'm saying it wouldn't surprise me if he could do well there.

He's the most complete player I have seen in a long time.
 
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