Rumours and Stuff

[Bazal]

To compare to mannah you have to be comparing to the pack leader which mannah has carried throughout his career under appreciated.

Mannah might have been averaging 120 but he was putting up 150-160s in those numbers. For Alvaro to average 120, he would need to do similar which I can't see happening. Don't mind seeing him prove me wrong, but even still he doesn't bend the line like mannah did early in his career, that's what we need from a pack leader (whilst running 120-150 average per game)

Mannah has been our pack leader because he has been our best prop. I'm his biggest fan on here, I love the bloke, but the fact that he has been our pack leader is part of our issues IMO. He's a hard worker who leads by example but he's not going to fire the pack up. Someone like Brown will start to take that role as Mannah winds down so Alvaro won't need to lead the pack, just play the role that Mannah does otherwise....

Polar made 140m in 25 mins in round 1, the bloke can make as many metres as Mannah no hassles.

 

[Twizzle]

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I like Alvaro and the role he fills, but if he's our leading prop as mannah has been we're in massive trouble. Getting 120 a game is far less than what mannah has delivered at his best, and I doubt he's capable of even that on a week in week out basis, his best role is complementing a better front row partner.

Expecting him to lead the pack is a lot like some of the expectations of Dave gower when he first arrived. He was pleasantly surprising because he was above reserve grade level, but not even close to being a productive starter

Minutes per game (runs per minute):
62 Brown (0.26)
45 Scott (0.15)
44 Matagi (0.27)
37 Mannah (0.28)
37 Terepo (0.26)
29 Alvaro (0.34)
28 Vave (0.34)
17 O'Brien (0.35)

I wouldn't say Mannah is our 'leading prop'. He hasn't been since about 2014.

 

[RazorRam0n]

Mannah has been our pack leader because he has been our best prop. I'm his biggest fan on here, I love the bloke, but the fact that he has been our pack leader is part of our issues IMO. He's a hard worker who leads by example but he's not going to fire the pack up. Someone like Brown will start to take that role as Mannah winds down so Alvaro won't need to lead the pack, just play the role that Mannah does otherwise....

Polar made 140m in 25 mins in round 1, the bloke can make as many metres as Mannah no hassles.

Browns best role is lock, running off a bit of momentum with a bit more space for ball playing.

I really hope matagi can lift his game so he can take on that role, needs to improve otherwise no reason why Kane Evans can't find some maturity in his game sooner than later

Ideally Alvaro compliments a prop rotation for me. Solid tolman type meters off the bench with vave providing punch

 

[RazorRam0n]

Minutes per game (runs per minute):
62 Brown (0.26)
45 Scott (0.15)
44 Matagi (0.27)
37 Mannah (0.28)
37 Terepo (0.26)
29 Alvaro (0.34)
28 Vave (0.34)
17 O'Brien (0.35)

I wouldn't say Mannah is our 'leading prop'. He hasn't been since about 2014.

Yardage wise and defensive workload he still is, and that's why it needs to improve so badly

Browns 62 minutes is from lock

 

[Bazal]

Browns best role is lock, running off a bit of momentum with a bit more space for ball playing.

I really hope matagi can lift his game so he can take on that role, needs to improve otherwise no reason why Kane Evans can't find some maturity in his game sooner than later

Ideally Alvaro compliments a prop rotation for me. Solid tolman type meters off the bench with vave providing punch

Really these days lock is just an extra prop. That's why we moved Brown there over an ageing Scott. No reason he can't either play the same role in the front row or be a pack leader as a lock. We'll have Alvaro to take the hit ups Mannah takes (as he does now when he replaces Mannah) so Brown's playing role won't change.

 

[RazorRam0n]

Really these days lock is just an extra prop. That's why we moved Brown there over an ageing Scott. No reason he can't either play the same role in the front row or be a pack leader as a lock. We'll have Alvaro to take the hit ups Mannah takes (as he does now when he replaces Mannah) so Brown's playing role won't change.

Yes lock is an extra prop,...Its a supplementing prop, That's why he's averaging 62 minutes.

Do you honestly believe if he played 8 or 10 he'd still be above 50 minutes?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Yardage wise and defensive workload he still is, and that's why it needs to improve so badly

Browns 62 minutes is from lock

But Scott's 45 minutes are from lock as well. Are you saying we have been playing 107 minutes each week?

 

[RazorRam0n]

But Scott's 45 minutes are from lock as well. Are you saying we have been playing 107 minutes each week?

Yes he's taking on prop rotation I get that, which again is not starting

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Really these days lock is just an extra prop. That's why we moved Brown there over an ageing Scott. No reason he can't either play the same role in the front row or be a pack leader as a lock. We'll have Alvaro to take the hit ups Mannah takes (as he does now when he replaces Mannah) so Brown's playing role won't change.

They're all just middle forwards, playing a variety of roles. These roles consist of more than two, so the terms 'lock' and 'prop' don't describe all the ways that middle forwards can be used.

There is also no reason you need two 'props' and one 'lock' on the field just because once upon a time that's how it worked and we are still stuck with the legacy of jerseys 8, 10 and 13 for middle forwards. They are just numbers.

 

[Bazal]

Yes lock is an extra prop,...Its a supplementing prop, That's why he's averaging 62 minutes.

Do you honestly believe if he played 8 or 10 he'd still be above 50 minutes?

It'd depend on the balance of the pack, obviously. But it's beside the point. Why does he have to play 8 or 10 to be the "pack leader"?

 

[Avenger]

Scott's form has improved the last 2 weeks. More than likely he is now fully fit.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Yes he's taking on prop rotation I get that, which again is not starting

His role doesn't change when he is on the field with Scott. Try to think of it as they are both playing lock.

 

[RazorRam0n]

It'd depend on the balance of the pack, obviously. But it's beside the point. Why does he have to play 8 or 10 to be the "pack leader"?

The term for me is associated with setting the platform, e.g. Matt Scott Bromwich etc making 200-250 meters some games usually with the 1st carry, making everyone else's job easier

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Scott's form has improved the last 2 weeks. More than likely he is now fully fit.

We are also leading early, which means we have more need for him on the field. When we are behind we need more attacking players and so Scott is less useful.

 

[Bazal]

The term for me is associated with setting the platform, e.g. Matt Scott Bromwich etc making 200-250 meters some games usually with the 1st carry, making everyone else's job easier

That's just a basic role of the starting props. Some rare players are far better at it than others, but Alvaro is certainly no worse at it than Mannah. The pack leader for me is the guy who gets the rest of the pack going when needed, as Brown does....

 

[Poupou Escobar]

The term for me is associated with setting the platform, e.g. Matt Scott Bromwich etc making 200-250 meters some games usually with the 1st carry, making everyone else's job easier

These guys put up these numbers because they are the best runners in their team plus good defenders capable of playing long minutes. This makes it appear as if you need this type of player in your team, however there is no reason you can't spread it amongst multiple players. Vave carries the ball as well as anyone but he can't play long minutes. This is why Kasiano would be a good signing for us because he is basically the same player.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

That's just a basic role of the starting props. Some rare players are far better at it than others, but Alvaro is certainly no worse at it than Mannah. The pack leader for me is the guy who gets the rest of the pack going when needed, as Brown does....

And do we even need a pack leader? If you have the attack and defence required from the three middle forward positions over the course of the 80 minutes does it even matter how the runs and tackles are distributed? Why does one particular forward need to play the longest minutes and take the majority of the runs? That could also indicate that the others aren't good enough.

 

[Bazal]

And do we even need a pack leader? If you have the attack and defence required from the three middle forward positions over the course of the 80 minutes does it even matter how the runs and tackles are distributed? Why does one particular forward need to play the longest minutes and take the majority of the runs? That could also indicate that the others aren't good enough.

A fair point

I think you need a "go to" player anyway who will jump in and take a big run when you need to wrestle momentum back or whatever, but that role is probably diminished in a well balanced pack.

 

[hindy111]

I noticed in the NRL rumour thread that others are LOLing at us signing Moses for a) overs and b) he's a flakey myth.

I admit that I don't watch other games all that much, but from what I have seen he is young but has a nice pass, good kicking game, likes to dart around the edge with his speed over 15m. Can kick goals 75%+.

Is he really a dud ?

2 yrs deals are never that risky.
Its the 4yr ones that are a worry.

I think worse case he will be just ok. Last year he was electric. This year he been below par.

Natural skill set is superior to Norman.Faster better step and i think a nicer pass. Defense is issue but i reckon his body will add 5kgs and be fine.