Rumours and Stuff

[Poupou Escobar]

I agree Tim Mannah 2017 will be similar to Tim Mannah 2016...which is an average prop. I think Alvaro 2017 will be better than Alvaro 2016, which will make him Mannah's equal in pretty much every respect. Now that Mannah is no longer the only player eligible for the LSPA, his full salary is essentially counted towards the cap. This would be MUCH higher than the amount Alvaro will be costing us.

I like Mannah, he's a good club man. But I hope we're in the business of winning premierships....not
keeping long term players happy.

It's nothing to do with what makes people happy, but rather what is best for the team. Their relative costs are also irrelevant regarding who starts or who comes off the bench. Alvaro, Mannah and Scott are all in our top 17 next year and likely to be our starting middle forwards.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Unless we rehired Seward I'd take him at his word.

Yeah I'm sure we want to keep him, and he has probably re-signed. Anyway, his retention means one less top 17 spot for our recruiting to cover.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Why would Mannah have less injuries next season?

Because 2016 is an extreme outlier compared to the rest of his career.

 

[Pazza]

He is stuck in NSW cup and I assume his on around $500k, so what would we consider good value ?

I guess it depends on how desperate Newcastle is to get rid of him.

Huge upside if BA is as great as we think he is.

Could you imagine a backline with Semi, Jennings, French and an inform Uate? would probably be the fastest backline we have ever fielded.

 

[Suitman]

Because 2016 is an extreme outlier compared to the rest of his career.

Yes. Of course it is.

 

[Chipmunk]

Because 2016 is an extreme outlier compared to the rest of his career.

Maybe he's just getting older and past it.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Well we know that thread is often somewhwat behind the times...

It doesn't take rumours at face value.

Mannah's in decline.

He is 28 and this is the only time he has ever missed more than two games in a season.

To be honest - and I don't blame the guy at all - but he's been in decline in terms of on-field performance since his last rep appearance in early 2013. Footy just wouldn't be the same for me either if I'd been through what Tim has been through.

(And before you attempt to challenge that, remember that you often claim we have to respect the opinion of (rep) coaches before any of us on the forums....)

I think there was a point a few years ago where his effectiveness dropped, but I think his form has been steady from there. Until this year, where he has been hampered by injury. And it's only his last few weeks that have been poor. I don't think that's long enough to say he's in decline.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I think Mannah's value to side is underestimated. Yeah he was poor last night, yeah he isn't the greatest, yeah there are better.

But his value lies in the ability to pretty much make 100 or so metres, 30 or so tackles and very few errors in about 45 minutes each week. And on a average wage ( probably around $350k ). There is very little difference between his best and worse which is what coaches like, they know what they will get.

The first 20 is normally the fast / hardest part of the game, which is what Mannah plays in. And while there are other props ( like Paulo and vava) who attack a lot better, Mannah's value is his defence / error rate, how often do we see Mannah miss a tackle ? Drop a ball? Give away a penalty ? very rarely and this is extremely important in the first 20 when the game is still an "arm wrestle".

I think $350k would be overs for Mannah. He is worth $250k-$300k.

 

[Chipmunk]

I think $350k would be overs for Mannah. He is worth $250k-$300k.

I'd say he'd be on more than $350k, I'd be thinking closer to $450k

 

[Happy MEel]

It's nothing to do with what makes people happy, but rather what is best for the team. Their relative costs are also irrelevant regarding who starts or who comes off the bench. Alvaro, Mannah and Scott are all in our top 17 next year and likely to be our starting middle forwards.

I'll be very surprised (and disappointed) if both Mannah and Alvaro are starting next year. They'll probably both be in the 17 but one will likely start and one will come off the bench. I actually think Alvaro will start as he offers a bit more. It's about balance and having two toilers in your starting 13 is a recipe for disaster. Big packs will monster them and we'll be blown off the park before our impact comes off the bench.

 

[Happy MEel]

I'd say he'd be on more than $350k, I'd be thinking closer to $450k

Agreed.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Maybe he's just getting older and past it.

I might agree if he was in his 30s but he is only 28.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I'd say he'd be on more than $350k, I'd be thinking closer to $450k

What market force would possibly push his price that high?

 

[phantom eel]

I'd say he'd be on more than $350k, I'd be thinking closer to $450k

Yep.

Wasn't Mannah the captain when he extended his contract in 2014? And a former rep player, with some prospect of returning to that (Origin) level again if he regained form?

No way he'd be on under $400K, and more likely $450K with a slight rise ($25K) for each year on the contract.

This year it's overs, and if he's in decline as I sadly suspect - unless Arthur rejuvenates him by maing him a bench forward in 2017 - it'll still be overs in 2017.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I'll be very surprised (and disappointed) if both Mannah and Alvaro are starting next year. They'll probably both be in the 17 but one will likely start and one will come off the bench. I actually think Alvaro will start as he offers a bit more. It's about balance and having two toilers in your starting 13 is a recipe for disaster. Big packs will monster them and we'll be blown off the park before our impact comes off the bench.

Actually toilers let us get off our line quickly, tackle after tackle after tackle.

 

[phantom eel]

What market force would possibly push his price that high?

The one that wants to save the embarassment and damge to squad morale of having your captain try and test the market... it can lead to a club offering paying overs to re-sign certain players from the outset.

 

[Happy MEel]

What market force would possibly push his price that high?

1. Captaincy
2. Previous origin experience
3. Possible long service player
allowance (although I concede Hayne was still in the team at this time)
4. Cap increases

It is absolutely conceivable (even likely) that Mannah's contract is worth 450k next year and with other players now qualifying for the long service allowance, if those players provide better value, it is essentially entirely counted towards the cap.

 

[Happy MEel]

Actually toilers let us get off our line quickly, tackle after tackle after tackle.

They do. But if that's the be all and end all, why did Junior start every game he was available?

 

[Suitman]

Lol at the person replying to everyones replies. Even replies to other replies that aren't even directed to this person.
f**king wanker.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Yep.

Wasn't Mannah the captain when he extended his contract in 2014? And a former rep player, with some prospect of returning to that (Origin) level again if he regained form?

No way he'd be on under $400K, and more likely $450K with a slight rise ($25K) for each year on the contract.

This year it's overs, and if he's in decline as I sadly suspect - unless Arthur rejuvenates him by maing him a bench forward in 2017 - it'll still be overs in 2017.

He was co-captain with Hayne, but regardless, being captain doesn't mean you get to write your own cheque. Your price depends on demand.