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Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
77,504
Jeez you are a piece of work. You are a real blight on this forum and what makes it even more ridiculous is you are a moderator.

The boys are exactly right with their "if it is true" caveat, unless if your wankyness know all the real facts?
And you are the forums weird uncle to who goes off half cocked all the time because he is too stupid to pick up the nuance of my posts.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,885
The point is Lussick was classed as a NSW cup level hooker or borderline NRL one. Yet we looked ok with him. We could probably sign him back up for about the 200-250k range.
I want Mahoney to stay but what is his cost? If it is 700k I think it is borderline overs. I would of thought around 500k is his worth. At 700k you need to think how much extra value he adds over a Lussick level.

If I build a good side it is like this and in order. When I say good I mean origin level or close.

1. 2 X STRONG PROPS
2. A good halfback
3. 1 X LINE BREAKING 2ND ROWER
4. An explosive and creative Fullback
5. A creative back with some X factor. Centre or wing.
6. A Good hooker.

After that you just fill areas but these 7 should be filled before you look at other positions improving.

If you don't have a good pack going forward, A halfback who can direct the play and some explosiveness out wide then I feel a great hooker becomes irrelevant. He will be unable to do a lot and just become a tackling bag. Just how I would build a side.

People may think I am crazy thinking a x factor back is more important then a good hooker but my reason being is if the defense is retreating the no 9 just needs to fire a quick pass and let the halves take control. A guy like MJ or SEMI in their primes will turn it into points. An OPACIC will not.

I agree with this to a point @hindy111 but the problem is we don't have a Semi type of player at present and who knows when we will again. They don't grow on trees. The best we can hope for is Penisini develops into a good and lethal centre and Russell a winger and or fullback that can cut defenses open with a little speed and elusiveness over the next 3-4 years, which is that time period we are talking about here.

As for dummy halves, almost all the last decades that I can think of that have won a GF are or were in the same class or better then Mahoney is right now. Yes you can get away with a solid hooker and be a successful team, but to win the GF history is on the side of the better/best ones and since our team hasn't got an explosive fullback and we don't have a very creative 6 at present or an X factor player, then if we also lost our best number 9 in decades well I'm sure I don't need to tell you of all people we would be regressing as a team.

I think at $600-650k he is getting what he is worth in this market. At $700K it is a little overs, but definitely not ridiculous money for a quality spine player like him. If the Dogs offer of $650K is legit for 4 years, then I believe that if we offered him $600K for 4 years with a bonus of $100K if we win a GF we would definitely keep him. I don't believe that he wants to go anywhere and if we offered him a close enough offer I believe he would love to stay. Also I would dangle the eventual captaincy to him too.

A bird in the hand is better then two in the bush.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,178
I think the Mahoney dinner with schmuck then Ayoub talking to media is in part about trying to take heat and attention off Gutherson's disgraceful negotiations so far. They have picked up on the negativity from the fans.
Thanks to social media it's not just journos who drive the narrative these days. Now we have fans collectively pissing and moaning about greedy, disloyal players. In the past the fans only pushed their own narratives in pubs and workplaces, and the media had the most authoritative voice.

But social media isn't exactly a new thing in 2021. How long would you merkins say the fans have had a social media voice to rival agenda messaging from journalists? I feel like it's about ten years, in which case germs like Ayoub should be prepared for it. And maybe he is. Did player managers ever issue press releases to counter fan backlash in the past?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,178
Marata is a hard worker but how much was/is he really worth?

This is really simplified but if you start with a total salary cap at $10m for 2022 for 30 players you have a mean of $333k each. Allow for your top 3 players to earn say, $2M between them that brings the mean down to $296k for the remaining 27 players. A couple of 2nd tier players on $500k to $600k each means you have $7m for 25 players and then add in another 2 or 3 players on minimum wage of $120k and you have $6.6m for 22 players so an average of $300k each. I am sure Pou can create a bell curve that shows a probable spread of salaries across a full squad.

Where does Marata sit against the average player and therefore average cost?
He is a hard worker but doesn't stand out as a 'star' on a consistent basis. He isn't likely to win you a game on his own and although he won't necessarily lose you a game, his ill-discipline at times need to be taken into account. So I would value him at about $350k to $400k max (using the very simplified process above).

If the stated initial offer of $275k is accurate, it isn't a huge lowballing. It is probably about 30% short but if Warriors want to pay a slightly better than average player $625k they are going to be filling their squad positions 21-30 with minimum wage players and hoping they don't get injuries to their top squad.

Of course none of the above might be right and I might simply have no idea, but I reckon MON does as he has been doing okay to get our squad into a competitive and pretty well balanced state over the last few years.
I reckon your numbers are all pretty reasonable. There would be a lot more players earning below the mean than over it.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,855
Thanks to social media it's not just journos who drive the narrative these days. Now we have fans collectively pissing and moaning about greedy, disloyal players. In the past the fans only pushed their own narratives in pubs and workplaces, and the media had the most authoritative voice.

But social media isn't exactly a new thing in 2021. How long would you merkins say the fans have had a social media voice to rival agenda messaging from journalists? I feel like it's about ten years, in which case germs like Ayoub should be prepared for it. And maybe he is. Did player managers ever issue press releases to counter fan backlash in the past?

Good question.
On another point I reckon there needs to be a men of league group who are ex players but from before the super league era.
Those guys built the popularity of the game and got nowhere near enough money but were great custodians of the game. Someone from that era like a Brett Kenny should point out everything that is wrong with Reed Mahoney going to dinner with the Bulldogs/Gould. Sure earn as much as you can from the game but always remember you are a custodian of the game and try not to shit on the fans.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,855
Does it actually matter to any of the people directly involved what the fans think in November 2021?

I think Peter Vlandis cares and that is why he is for example doing so much to try to make the game entertaining again.
The players and clubs just care about themselves and maximum $.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,885
Actually reckon Marata leaving for that deal is good reflection on our club. Shows that coming to our club will improve you as a player….

Marata came to us as a 20’s player from the warriors and leaves as a quality NRL player…

But we were the ones that got value out of him ….now the warriors have to pay overs for him..

it’s what the Storm do best and keeps them as a contender every year…


Great post mate.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,178
Jeez you are a piece of work. You are a real blight on this forum and what makes it even more ridiculous is you are a moderator.

The boys are exactly right with their "if it is true" caveat, unless if your wankyness know all the real facts?
Your 'if true' posts are garbage because they entertain and amplify negative speculation about the club you supposedly love. Here's a simple rule of thumb: if it's the type of post a Parra hating troll would come in here and post then it is shit. Notice you're never dropping 'if true' posts about positive speculation?
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,855
If the game wants to stay strong and get stronger it needs to build on or at least maintain rivalries. Imagine if NSW players got photographed having dinner with Mal Meninga and Wally Lewis during state of origin camp. The old legends like Tommy would roll around in their graves and it would be a paper cut to the narrative of the state of origin rivalry.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,178
What have fans got to do with it unless you have a big name player like Teddy, Trobojevic, etc, someone who can sell jerseys.
Well that's my point. Many players have value off the field, including being fan favourites. Think of it as marketing value. Fan favourites and other high profile players would have value (and a price) beyond their contribution on the field.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,885
Eels hooker Reed Mahoney’s manager personally rang and told a senior Parramatta official his client was meeting with Canterbury management to avoid potentials dramas.
On Tuesday night, Mahoney was spotted at a Chinese restaurant inside Canterbury Leagues Club with Bulldogs officials, including high-profile general manager of football, Phil Gould.

“I was being transparent,” Mahoney’s agent Sam Ayoub said.

But Ayoub has angrily denied his Eels star was seeking $700,000 a season.

The Bulldogs launched a multimillion-dollar bid to Mahoney over a private dinner.


The Daily Telegraph broke the story online (read below) about the high-powered meetings, which included Mahoney, Ayoub, Gould, Bulldogs head coach Trent Barrett and club chairman John Khoury.

Prior to dinner, Mahoney was given a guided tour of the Bulldogs’ high-performance facilities at Belmore Sports Ground.

“Nothing to report,” Gould told The Daily Telegraph.

“Had a nice dinner with Reed. I wanted him to meet our people. He’s a very impressive young man. No formal offer at this stage. Very much preliminary discussions.

“If Reed shows a genuine interest in being a Bulldog, we would be keen for further the talks. We shall see what the future brings.”


Aware the meeting may attract attention, and make Parramatta uncomfortable, Ayoub rang Eels general manager of football, Mark O’Neill, to be “transparent”. Ayoub also said he was tired of reading inflated figures suggesting Mahoney was chasing $700,000 a season.

“I was being transparent — I let Mark O’Neill know about the meeting,” Ayoub said.


“I didn’t say which club we were meeting but I told him we were meeting with a club on Tuesday night. I do things the right way.

“We didn’t do anything wrong. We even went the extra mile to be transparent by letting Parramatta know. Reed is entitled to do that and they (Parramatta) know that.

“It was legal, we were entitled to do it. It’s important for the fans to know that.

“The only way a player is going to know his worth is by talking to others. The only way I’m going to establish his worth is by talking to clubs.

“And don’t forget, Reed was at Canterbury as a junior (playing under 20s).

“At no stage have we spoken to a club and asked for a figure. We have never, ever suggested or proposed a figure to any club about Reed’s value. We keep reading that Reed is asking for $700,000 a year. All that is doing is misleading Parramatta fans.

“He has never asked for $700,000. He has never asked for a figure, and neither have I and we have maintained that stand. We have not received any offers from any clubs. The figures being report are fiction.

“The meeting was about Reed getting to know whether the club which could potentially be the place that’s viable for him. It’s not just about money – who their coach is, their strengths, roster.”

Ayoub said Mahoney was allowed to talk with rival clubs given the NRL’s November 1 deadline had passed and the player comes off contract at Parramatta after next season.


“It was just a meet and greet,” Ayoub said. “Reed did nothing wrong. The club has shown interest in a player, which they are entitled to do, and it’s something Reed is also entitled to do.

“It’s no different to you going to look for another job to see if it’s viable for you or if it’s better for you, or whether it’s not, or if the money is better. The Bulldogs showed every bit of respect for a good club aiming to be great again.

“Reed hasn’t made a decision. Any club that shows interest is potentially in the equation. He is entitled to consider all the options that are available to him.”

The Daily Telegraph reached out to Gould for comment but he did not respond.

Mahoney told Bulldogs officials at the dinner he wanted to be respectful of Parramatta before reaching a final career decision. He has already been linked to Brisbane, Gold Coast and the newly-formed Dolphins.


Anyone have trouble with the mixed messages here. One minute he says that there is no talk of actual money being offered, then the next minute he is saying how else are we to know what he is worth?

What the 'F'. Really, he thinks people will buy this sh*t?
 

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