Rumours and Stuff

[Wally21]

Has a team ever had 3 of its top 17 players sign with rivals over 12 months prior all at once? It could potentially be 4 with Paulo. They already have a foot out the door and some of them haven’t even begun pre season.

Melbourne in the last 8 months have lost JAC, Kafusi, Hynes and Finucane. And about to lose dick cheese as well apptarently. All genuine top 17 and 3 origin stars and current Kiwi hooker

 

[Noise]

Melbourne in the last 8 months have lost JAC, Kafusi, Hynes and Finucane. And about to lose dick cheese as well apptarently. All genuine top 17 and 3 origin stars and current Kiwi hooker

But not all in the pre season prior which is what I was asking. JAC was the only one last pre season. Hynes and Finucane decided mid season.

Kaufusi is the only one so far this preseason

 

[Poupou Escobar]

But not all in the pre season prior which is what I was asking. JAC was the only one last pre season. Hynes and Finucane decided mid season.

Kaufusi is the only one so far this preseason

With fewer top 17 players off contract there would be fewer players to sign elsewhere, but also fewer signing deadlines forcing early decisions.

 

[Gary Gutful]

We’ve all been there

I haven't.

 

[lucablight]

That's a fan account you've quoted. Those merkins would of course be confident we're keeping every player. But they don't know what the club heads were thinking.

TCT doesn’t have contacts at the club?

Nobody knows how much either player will be paid. But if we had to make an assessment would you say those clubs have to pay overs to sign players? And if our players are getting offered overs should we match it?

I’d say it’s more likely the Bulldogs were more willing to pay what he was worth. Here’s how I think it went down
Eels management: We’ll offer you 500k over 3 years
Sam Ayoub: The bulldogs are offering 600k over 4 years
Eels management: (lol he’s bluffing no way they’re offering so much. It’s just a manager trying to scrounge more money out of us. I’m sure Reedy will sign with us at the initial offer if we call his bluff)
Mahoney: I guess I should take the higher contract *signs contract
Eels management: Wait, he actually signed with them?

Either that or they don’t rate Mahoney.

So if it works for them why couldn't it work for us?

It could. If we get lucky and a talented crop of juniors all arrive at the same time like they did at Penrith. If it was that easy then everyone would be doing it. Do you think it’s more likely for a club to regress if they let go of their talented players or get better?

Well I'm a highly intelligent person, and not very passionate, so my preconceived ideas are sound and reasonable. I don't think the same could be said about you.

$600k from the Tigers seems realistic. I think it's the upper limit of what he's worth. But I do believe they're a weaker club than Parramatta, and they would have to pay overs to sign our players.

As for Mahoney, I think $700k is the most a club would pay and I think only a club like the Bulldogs (or Tigers) would pay it. A strong club like Souths or the Chooks would never pay that much for him. I think the most they would go would be maybe $550k. How much would we pay? I hope we wouldn't bend over and offer more than $600k. If we're serious as a club, we need to manage our cap well, not desperately pander to players because of fan pressure.

Defending every action the club makes doesn’t make you not passionate nor does it make you sound and reasonable. You’re just as emotional in defending your stance because you aren’t intellectually honest when it comes to assessing decisions made by the club. If you were balanced then you would have no trouble with the cognitive dissonance you carry in needing to defend the club in every action it takes no matter how dubious. Can you name me a similar instance at a 5th-8th ranked club where they had so many of their good players off contract and failed to retain them like this?

It's not blind at all. Here's the evidence that the Bulldogs overpay and we don't:

1. We are not re-signing players quickly
2. The Bulldogs have already made one huge 'announcement'
3. The Eels have been strong for a few years indicating good management
4. The Bulldogs have performed poorly in recent years indicating poor management
5. Parramatta have been accused in the media of lowballing players and for having no 'footy IQ' in the place
6. The Dogs have Phil Gould running things, who has a history of paying huge contracts that later need to be subsidised when the players leave

Don't pretend I'm the one blindly believing without evidence when you're the one lapping up f**king Daily Telegraph narratives you dumb dunce.

I have no idea what not re-signing players quickly has to do with no overpaying. It’s not just the dailytelegraph reporting this btw. It’s on social media, foxsports and the smh as well. I don’t believe everything in the media but I don’t go all fake news when I want to craft a narrative to defend my speculative position either. All I know is that we barely have any origin players (as you always like to point out) and haven’t tasted much grand final success in recent times (two of the biggest reasons for clubs losing players) yet we are struggling to keep our rising stars. Can you show me another example of where lower ranked teams raided a club with similar origin and grand final experience in similar circumstances?

Mostly the extra experience and growth of our young squad. So many of them should be better players next year just based on their age. Very few are old enough that you'd expect them to be worse. Plus it's that extra year of stability and cohesion.

Partly

What a dumb question. What if we had won the comp this year? Well then I guess next year we might be less hungry and also shouldn't expect as much luck (something essential for winning a premiership). Dumb f**king hypotheticals.

There were at least four better teams than ours this year. Everything proves it. The ladder, the points differentials, the finals finish. Hopefully next year we are a better team. I expect we will be. But we won't know until the ladder takes its final shape close to the finals.

Well you'll know, because you have preconceived that we're a great team with a shit coach, despite any evidence at all.
Your question doesn't even make any sense.

Do you think teams can overachieve or underachieve? If so then your look at the ladder/points differential argument is irrelevant. They don’t “prove anything”. They convey how things panned out but they don’t take into account whether a team overachieved or underachieved. I don’t believe our side should have finished below Manly or the Roosters at the very least this season.

Every strong team is likely to have players on unders, whether they win the comp or not. Those players will need an upgrade when they come off contract. That won't change just because their team didn't win the premiership.

What’s your completely arbitrary definition of a strong team?

Their value increased because they played well ffs. Origin and premierships are just affirmation of that. In the case of the premiership it just means they were in a good team. Plenty of ordinary players win premierships. It doesn't increase their value any more than if they had lost the grand final or gotten knocked out in week two. Clubs don't assess player values based on one game.

So when I say we have a good roster because players “play well” then it’s not a good enough roster because they didn’t get picked for origin but when Penriths loses players it’s because they played well and not because they were picked for origin? Again Pou you want to have it both ways depending on what you’re arguing.

There's no guarantee we would've been a better team if we'd kept Mahoney either. What if his huge new contract meant we lost a bunch more players?

Only time will tell. Which scenario do you think is more likely? That we’ll be a better team if we had kept Mahoney on what the Bulldogs offered or better by spending that money elsewhere?

I already told you. They would've expected to lose some but had no control over which ones. How much other clubs offer was always out of our hands.

This is only true if Mahoney was offered an unreasonable amount of money which we couldn’t match. This hasn’t been demonstrated yet but you believe it vehemently

Media speculation isn't proof. It's not even news ffs

I don't believe the reports per se, just that a player wouldn't leave a string club for a weak one unless he was getting more money. In many cases a lot more.

He said we offer something more than just money, implying that we wouldn't be able to match offers from clubs offering only money. What do the Dogs and Tigers have to offer besides money? Even the Warriors offer the opportunity to live in Auckland, if that's important to a player.
Well there you go. It's one of those two. You're assuming it's the former.

I'm sure they knew he was always a chance of leaving. All of them were. How much desperate clubs offer our players is out of our hands. It shouldn't make us behave with desperation though. That would make us as poorly run as them.

He certainly doesn't seem to care much about success. We were still in crisis when Mahoney signed with us. Now he's going to the wooden spooners.

Mahoney joined the Eels in 2017. We were a club on the rise and not in crisis. We came fourth that season. I don’t see how you can say the Bulldogs have nothing to offer. They have a proud history and are looking like a club on the rise as well with all their new signings and Phil Gould at the helm. Do you think there is even a slight possibility that the Eels offered Mahoney an amount that was lower than what he could be reasonably worth? Or is it fait accompli that he was offered the maximal amount someone of his talent should be vying!

Win a bidding war, or even get into one in the first place. But in the case of a bidding war, the biggest loser is the team that ends up stuck with the overpaid player on their books.

Do you think Mahoney is being overpaid without a doubt? How much would you say he is likely close to getting paid?

Ooh, now do "if he was signed for $700k"!

Do you think Leilua was signed for 700k or is that BS?

 

[lucablight]

We still had a fit will smith for the semi final. Yet BA choose stone to start. It’s no surprise BA devalues the position. Everyone was questioning BA back than. Not sure how it’s defendable

The coach had Gutherson playing at hooker in attack during some games

 

[Wally21]

I'm probably the biggest idiot on here but when grown men carry on like kids when a players leaves I feel a little embarrassed that I come on here and chat. Amd question what type of people some may be in real life.

It's just a f**king game. It's fun to watch. Fun to discuss. But really who gives that much of a shit?

NRL isn’t life or death Hindy, it’s more important than that

 

[lucablight]

They must've lowballed him. f**ken amateur hour!

Pou really be comparing a 21-3 team this season that made a grand final 2 out of the 3 seasons losing an origin player to a sixth place club that hasn’t gone past the second week since 2009 losing their rising star player.

 

[Bandwagon]

Face it, our club is shit.

Despite so many examples of clubs losing players, none of them have managed to do it in the exact same circumstances as we have. So their shitness isn't shit.

 

[hineyrulz]

EVERYTHING IS f**kING SEMEN PLOP!!!!!

 

[T-Boon]

ffs he's never f**ked any club's cap before, why would he start now?

He has only done this job once before and he messed that place up. As soon as they sacked him they were good.

 

[The Rosco]

Yep, I don't get all these "Oh now Mahoney is crap lol" arguments. I think he's still top five hookers in the game. The point isn't that he's suddenly no good, but that every player has a price cap to a smart club. For dumber clubs the cap for a given player will be higher. It doesn't matter how good they are, if a player is motivated only by money they will end up at shit clubs. You see it all the time.

But how can you tell which player is motivated only by money ?
Let me guess . . . the ones that leave your club are only motivated by $$$, and the ones that join your club are motivated by some higher cause ?

 

[Eelementary]

But how can you tell which player is motivated only by money ?
Let me guess . . . the ones that leave your club are only motivated by $$$, and the ones that join your club are motivated by some higher cause ?

You're right - Isaiah Papali'i left a top 6 team, to join a bottom 6 team, for more money, but he isn't motivated by the dollar.

If you're seriously that naive, that you don't think that EVERY player is motivated by money, then I don't know what to tell you...

 

[T-Boon]

With only having Mahoney for a year I would tap Cam Smith on the shoulder and see if he wants to play for the season then go into coaching with us.

 

[Snoochies]

Has an official announcement been made in regards to Reed? If not, is there still a chance he isn't going and negotiations might be on going?

 

[chiefy1]

Face it, our club is shit.

Despite so many examples of clubs losing players, none of them have managed to do it in the exact same circumstances as we have. So their shitness isn't shit.

We need Arthur out asap.

 

[King-Gutho94]

I see that grub felise kaufusi has signed with redcliffe.

I can despise them now just like the other 15 clubs

 

[The Rosco]

You're right - Isaiah Papali'i left a top 6 team, to join a bottom 6 team, for more money, but he isn't motivated by the dollar.

If you're seriously that naive, that you don't think that EVERY player is motivated by money, then I don't know what to tell you...

Of course everyone is motivated by money. As a WT fan, I know only too well the stupid money paid to get garden variety players to your club.
I was directly responding to Pou when he said " if a player is motivated only by money they will end up at shit clubs. You see it all the time"
From IP, to Gutho, Moses and JAC. It's all about money, no matter what BS they tell you.
Pou seems to think that "market value" isn't a thing for Parra, but any player that leaves Parra for a better contract must be going to a shit club.
I wonder if that same principle applied when Gutho, RCG, Matterson, Moses or Fergo signed with you guys.
But from the little bit of time I've been here, Pou seems to think (and type) a hell of a lot.

 

[lucablight]

Face it, our club is shit.

Despite so many examples of clubs losing players, none of them have managed to do it in the exact same circumstances as we have. So their shitness isn't shit.

You’re not arguing in good faith. I never said our club is shit. I said most clubs that lose their rising stars due to salary cap pressure have players with recent grand final/origin appearances. Why don’t you refute the argument instead of creating that strawman?

 

[King-Gutho94]

I think the way mahoney has played this he probably should just go now. At least the other 2 have left with more class and dignity.

To pretty much go to our arch rivals leagues club wine and dine there while still contracted to our club was pretty disrespectful. And leaves a bitter taste as any departure we have had in years.

I didn't have a problem him meeting them but there is some places you just dont go too and shove it in our faces. Meet them in a cafe or a restraunt not affiliated to there club.

DCE deserved his criticism years ago when he rocked up to sharks leagues club when he was shopping himself around and he admitted afterwards it was a mistake